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Renegade T/H Trail Test - Stuck cow mode lives on....

9.5K views 44 replies 14 participants last post by  breadtruck  
#1 · (Edited)
From a recent review:

"The Renegade’s Achilles heel seemed to be hillclimbs. One long, loose dirt climb stopped the Renegade cold. Even with a long run at the hill it was unable to make the climb. It felt like it had run out of gearing, but we suspect the overactive traction control and smaller tires played a part. It just sat on the hill with the engine whining and only occasional wheelspin."

What's Hot:
-Approach and departure angles
-Nimble
-Solid body structure
-Driver-seat visibility
-Simple switchgear and HVAC controls
-Fuel mileage
-Power-to-weight ratio

What's Not:
-Overactive traction control
-20:1 crawl ratio isn’t that crawly
-Needs a locker
-Sad engine sounds under load :)

Full article here: http://www.fourwheeler.com/vehicle-reviews/1504-2015-four-wheeler-of-the-year/#ixzz3Pfnycluc
 
#2 ·
that's for the gas engine,maybe.
the diesel offers more power and torque thqn the diesel pat,so it should rock.
 
#7 · (Edited)
what the crap...those are slow times...the new 2.4 is supposed to have 16% more power, it's mated to a 9 speed so it should have way better gearing, and it should be lighter although it seems pretty close to the Pat...I wonder if they gave it multiple runs to let the computer figure out they were going for speed not mpg...sounds like it didn't have a locker either? Maybe they weren't using rock mode? Still reading the article...

Rock mode has a locker? pg 8 https://www.jeep.com/assets/pdf/renegade.pdf
 
#9 ·
Could be wrong, but pretty sure there's no rear locker like the KL Trailhawk. The "locked" differential stuff we keep hearing is just the PTU clutch engaged full time, like the Patriot does when the 4x4 lever is pulled.

I've seen places in the video where a rear wheel is off the ground and stops spinning, like the BLD's are kicking in.
 
#11 ·
I dunno, could be. I've seen people on other boards get into huge arguments on this. I think part of the misunderstanding stems from how things get stated like:"pulling the lock lever locks the front and rear axles" is taken to mean "Oh, it's got a locker". Close, but...no.

If you watch the rear wheels around 22 you can see the vehicle's still moving but the rear wheel starts to spin then gets checked. I'd think they'd be in "rock" mode with the locker engaged, but maybe not.

 
#23 ·
To me it looks like it performed better than the FD2 patriot. I would have been stuck on going up the hill in the offroading tflc video. That lower gear ratio even though its not much will do better, and the bigger engine should really outperform the fd2.
 
#24 ·
Yes I have FDII Envy but I beg to differ

19:1 vs 20:1 = virtually no difference.

184hp 177ft/lbs TQ a bit over 3500lbs = 19.02 lbs/hp

MK's

2011+ 4x4 models start at 3247lbs a 2012 FDII = 3384lbs

172hp 165ft/lbs = 19.67 lbs/hp

The weight ratio is awful close , I would have thought the 9 speed transmission would have helped accelerating but in the TH trim it's not faster than FDII models (I ran a 17.9 1/4 mile).


I'd love to be proven wrong and I do acknowledge i'm bench racing with numbers and don't have any hard proof.

Lets not forget this famous video from a member who used to post here a few years ago.

 
#27 ·
Most of the cool videos are FDII or at least using the CVT with FD1. I'm wondering how the new 6 speed auto will work if I put er in 1 using autostick and Lock 4X4 and turn ESC Off ?? I don't do serious offroad but want to handle deep snow.
 
#28 ·
ESP Full off is your friend, as long as you can keep the tires spinning and rpms up with good tires you can plow pretty good,

FDII
FDI

Keeping the RPMS up is the key, with my FDII its a lot easier to keep things spinning ect

But with enough speed and technique a FDI and good tires can do very well.

FDI

 
#29 ·
Its all in the gearing fellas. They aren't really that serious about the renegades off road performance just like they weren't serious about the MK's off road performance. Instead of going for serious off road prowess, they are going for the "that will do" approach. Sure its best in class just like our MK was/is. That's because nobody else is making small off road oriented vehicles. If they wanted to make a killer little off roader they would have put the KL's 2 speed ptu and 2 speed rear diff in it. It would probably make the KL look bad at that point.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I"m really not out on a mission to prove you wrong, just going by my thoughts and some facts are available. I still say it doesn't. I do see where it explains that it has "rear differential locking element"

My guess is that refers to the fact it can "lock" the driveshaft to the rear wheels, much like our FDI and FDII. On the next page where it talks about "ready to play standard features" it makes no reference to a locking rear differential.

Remember that jeeps explanation of 4 wheel systems and features sometimes very when it comes to how the function in the real world.

The reason I say there isn't a locker is becasue it makes no reference in the manual to one and it doesn't state anywhere that you can cause driveline damage by enabling 4x4 lock and/or the Rock mode on the Trailhawk Model.
Taken from here:
http://www.jeep.com/en/owners/manuals/
Image

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It doesn't state anymore not to use the 4x4 lock or Rock mode on high traction surfaces (like it does in the Cherokee KL manual).

One difference compared to ours is enabling the low range mode. You have to be at a complete stop. My guess on this is due to the design of the transmission (its not a cvt) that it needs to ensure that it is in first gear so it can stay in 1st gear to achieve the 20:1 crawl ratio. I'm guessing trying to "lock" it in 4x4 low while moving and not in 1st gear might break something or the computer just won't allow the shift.

Cherokee KL 4x4 operation
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#33 · (Edited)
no worries...Jeep is really into their marketing mumbo jumbo...the reason I'm sort of excited is I'm really hoping that their last year revamped compass will have everything we've been asking for...if the renegade can get it it might happen on the compass, and as long as the revamped compass uses the same diff as ours(doubt it...) we could be looking at a way to get our locker!
 
#34 ·
I'm thinking the same as you, I would just like something a wee bit more capable and i'd be happy. I love everything else about the MK platform, just need additional offroad ability.
 
#40 ·
Realworld testing of the KL Selec Terrain Mode on an ADII KL

Auto,Rear end is completely disconnected from the front, driveshaft isn't even spinning. Vehicle is a FWD vehicle in this mode. If there is wheel spin there is a delay about .5 of a second where the front tires spin and the back end kicks in. It can also send power to the rear with throttle input as well. Problem is that it has enogh power (271hp 239tq) that it can spin the front tires briefly on drive pavement before the rear engages. BLD is not very agressive

Sport
Rear end is engaged at all times and sends more torque (apparently 60 rear 40 front) to make it feel more like a rwd vehicle, shifting is different and it holds gears longer. In slicker conditions it acts like a rwd as the back end kicks out quite nice. BLD's not agressive

Snow
Rear end is engaged at all times but only send 40% torque back, 60% stays at the front and has very agressive BLD's that don't allow much spin, also starts in second gear to prevent wheel spin. Driving on ice or really slick conditions in this mode is awesome, hardly any slippage and feels solid as a rock.

Sand/Mud
Rear end is engaged and torque split is roughly 50/50 More aggressive BLD's holds the transmission in first gear. In the 4 high mode this feels the most locked as when you are on dry surfaces you can feel some binding whil turning.

Obviously when in 4-low there is no variable torque split since everything is locked together, and like i mentioned before the modes only control the BLD's. 4-Low with Snow mode is amazing.


4-Low sand/mud wouldn't do it, changed to snow mode and it was like magic it was able to make it up.
 
#42 ·
Realworld testing of the KL Selec Terrain Mode on an ADII KL

Auto,Rear end is completely disconnected from the front, driveshaft isn't even spinning. Vehicle is a FWD vehicle in this mode. If there is wheel spin there is a delay about .5 of a second where the front tires spin and the back end kicks in. It can also send power to the rear with throttle input as well. Problem is that it has enogh power (271hp 239tq) that it can spin the front tires briefly on drive pavement before the rear engages. BLD is not very agressive

Sport
Rear end is engaged at all times and sends more torque (apparently 60 rear 40 front) to make it feel more like a rwd vehicle, shifting is different and it holds gears longer. In slicker conditions it acts like a rwd as the back end kicks out quite nice. BLD's not agressive

Snow
Rear end is engaged at all times but only send 40% torque back, 60% stays at the front and has very agressive BLD's that don't allow much spin, also starts in second gear to prevent wheel spin. Driving on ice or really slick conditions in this mode is awesome, hardly any slippage and feels solid as a rock.

Sand/Mud
Rear end is engaged and torque split is roughly 50/50 More aggressive BLD's holds the transmission in first gear. In the 4 high mode this feels the most locked as when you are on dry surfaces you can feel some binding whil turning.

Obviously when in 4-low there is no variable torque split since everything is locked together, and like i mentioned before the modes only control the BLD's. 4-Low with Snow mode is amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8mKDfKp6Ww

4-Low sand/mud wouldn't do it, changed to snow mode and it was like magic it was able to make it up.
Is there really only 4 modes on the KL's that makes way more sense...why add extra to renegade? Maybe it makes it more marketable to "new" drivers?

How does the Cherokee get 60% to rear? Isn't it the same basic architecture as Pat(but with 2 speed PTU, and disconnectable drive shaft)?