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Programmed RPMs or TorqueConvertor limits? Or physical limit of PAT? Cant climb on a curb, sandy/slippery hill.

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#21 ·
ESP Full off is not available on FWD MK's. The only way to completely disable traction control is to pull the ABS fuse, however the engine reduction part of traction control will still be available
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
Tyler-98-W68 said:
ESP Full off is not available on FWD MK's. The only way to completely disable traction control is to pull the ABS fuse, however the engine reduction part of traction control will still be available
Click to expand...
Exactly!
I've pulled off ABS fuse - put PAT to high curb (pics above) - 2000rpm engine ruduction still s#cks!

Does anybody have an idea how to remove this limit?

DIYs are welcome! :)
 
#23 ·
Pretty sure it would involve reprogramming the ECU and TCU... if it's even possible at all. Unfortunately, that's just the way all of these 4 cylinder CUVs are made these days.
 
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#24 ·
I doubt it's the ESP; since the ESP (when working properly) goes active when the vehicle is in motion, not when sitting still on flat ground with the wheels blocked.

Probably more to do with the torque converter stall speed like Tyler explained, but changing the torque converter would mean PCM/TCM changes.

Some people have suggested something like a Sprint Booster / Pedal Commander helps with faster throttle response and getting the engine higher into the power band quicker, others say it's a waste of money.

A while back someone tried doing a stage 1 cam regrind (among other things), but they had problems due to the PCM and had to take it back out.

You can read about it here:
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Hello there, guys and gals. We're nearing completion of a series of major performance upgrades, seeking to make this the fastest Jeep Patriot in the nation without the use of forced induction. It's been a lot of headache, but in the end, I hope this Pat proves to be the most powerful and fuel...
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Maybe the cam regrind would work now that the HP Tuner supports the Patriot PCM at least a little. But it's not a quick, cheap, DIY fix that's for sure.
 
#25 ·
Its the torque converter stall speed, at/above which you start introducing a ton of heat if the output shaft cannot turn. This is a very compact and light duty 6 speed transmission with a little bitty torque converter, I think it's rated for 230Nm (169 ft-lbs) which is 4 ft-lbs more than our 2.4 engine is rated so it's right up at its limits - even if you could disable the limiter that's surely programmed in there to protect your transmission it would not be a clever idea to do so.

What you can do is first be realistic about what this vehicle can do and second adapt your driving style to work with the vehicle's limitations. Your total torque at the wheels is - absolute best case scenario - 165 ft-lbs times 4.212 first gear times 3.367 axle ratio.. about 2340 ft-lbs at the wheels.

By comparison a stock 2001 XJ (automatic) makes 230 ft-lbs times 2.8 first gear times 3.55 axle ratio - about 2286 ft-lbs at the wheels in high range. But it has 2.72 low range which means 6218 ft-lbs at the wheels.

We don't have a low range. Wish we did, even a 15% reduction like old Subaru Foresters got in a few non-north-America markets.

Anyway the transmission is fundamentally a good unit but it's built for small sedans and it's really at its limits behind a big 4 cylinder and in front of sticky all terrain tires on all sorts of terrains. There's a reason you couldn't get max towing with the 6 speed auto. I take my Patriot out camping and exploring but I treat it like an Outlander with skidplates. It's pretty good at that.
 
#26 ·
The Patriot is what it is, and it's not what it's not. It's a station wagon with good ground clearance. My FWD Patriot is great in the snow and it's comfortable on dirt roads and reasonable trails. It is not a Wrangler; it is not a Powerwagon. Can it be made to do things out of its comfort range? Yes, but that's not a good practice.
 
#27 ·
It's not the transmission torque converter its simply the lack of torque.

Example.

The 2014+ Jeep Cherokee KL 2.4 Trailhawk model. 184hp 171ft/lbs

In high range is is 171 x 4.71 x 4.08 = 3286 ft/lbs but it still struggles in high range

In low range which is 2.92 reduction = 9595 ft/lbs. In low range a 2.4 Cherokee TH has zero issues offroad in any type of obstacle.

Its quite simply torque multiplication or lack of it.

I can stall out my 5.7 grand cherokee in high range, I could stall out my 3.2 Trailhawk in high range, using low range gets rid of all the problems.

If the MK had a low range we wouldn't be having this discussion at all
 
#30 ·
You could add 200ft/lbs more power to your vehicle it's still not going to do anything.

You NEED gear reduction in order to have the vehicle move properly in low speeds.

My Grand Cherokee with 390ft/lbs of torque will bog out and not move in certain situations unless I use the low range function.
 
#31 · (Edited)
You will need to source and install a torque converter with a higher stall speed, and accept the negative consequences in daily driving from that. That will allow you to go nowhere with the engine at a higher RPM while still being fully stalled.
 
#32 ·
A torque converter is NOT going to help anything.

Explain to me why my 5.7 Grand Cherokee bogs out the same way my Patriot and Compass did in certain offroad examples, but the problem goes away in low range.

Same thing with both my Cherokee KL's, they both have low range and when not in low range in certain situations they bog down and don't go anywhere?
 
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Tyler-98-W68
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