[patriotpierre]

Got a phone call from my dealer's technician this morning. He took on him to check the Pats in the yard. It seems Patritos with automatic transmissions don't have this problem so he took a manual transmission Patriot on the lot no ESP OFF mode working, flashed the computer and messed up the ABS system. Told me not to come for a flash...you bet I won't!!!

Her says Wranglers 2007 had this problem, took a year before a TSB was out.

So guys with no ESP OFF mode, how could we constitute a pressure group on Chrysler?
I think we need a list of owners with this problem and maybe a lawyer to send a legal notice? Does anyone know how we could do this?

 

[jepstr67]

Well, summer is half over. Now I begin to wonder if my ESP OFF is functioning or not. I know that the little car with the squiggles lights up, both for ESP OFF and ESP Full OFF, but since the programming is screwed up for the chime and the display of the words, is the function of the system screwed up too? I could live with the display being wrong, but the different drive functions needs to work. Ilifted my car up off the ground and tried to do some tests, but I couldn't figuring anything out from that. Heck, the rear wheels keep rotating in 4x2 mode, and strong enough that you can't just put your foot against it an make it stop. I suppose, it detected "wheel slippage" from my attempt to slow one wheel down, or from the fact the rear wheels were not rolling over a surface at the same speed as the front wheels.

I wish the display on the dash was more like the description of the system on the Jeep web site. http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/how_systems_work/freedom_drive/ showing where power is actually going and when. Obviously if could not be as involved at the video, but 4 tires that could be green, orange or red, from a back lit LED would be oh so cool!

 

[Hitzy]

Got a phone call from my dealer's technician this morning. He took on him to check the Pats in the yard. It seems Patritos with automatic transmissions don't have this problem so he took a manual transmission Patriot on the lot no ESP OFF mode working, flashed the computer and messed up the ABS system. Told me not to come for a flash...you bet I won't!!!

Her says Wranglers 2007 had this problem, took a year before a TSB was out.

So guys with no ESP OFF mode, how could we constitute a pressure group on Chrysler?
I think we need a list of owners with this problem and maybe a lawyer to send a legal notice? Does anyone know how we could do this?

FD1 CVT has the same issue, that's what my wife drives and it doesn't work in her's either.

 

[xxandrewnxx]

I thought the manual was really clear and unusually specific (for a car manual, really).

Needless to say, with my 4x2, I only have the two modes, which work like they're supposed to: On and Partial Off, where after a certain *speed* (is that what it was) it kicks back on to prevent too much wheel spin.

I'm just stoked to see Avg 27.1 MPG on his speedometer!!!

 

[APT]

Just a question of psycology more than anything. Why do those that think/know they have this issue care? Has there been a time yet they needed that unavailible mode? Has there been an off-road situation where ESP activated when you wish it did not?

Most people I know, even those with trucks/SUV's, never need to disable ESP. It's always on and when it activates, people usually think it helped them. Off road, you probably don't need to disable ESP unless you are driving rallye style, beaches, sand dunes, or decently maintained dirt/gravel. Winter, there is snow driving, but most people don't drive sideways in the snow and again, when ESP activates think it "helped" them.

If you want some wheel slip (2 for 2WD or 4 for 4WD) on low friction surfaces, partial off works as advertised.

 

[todde702]

Apt, I agree with what you're saying (I personally will probably never need full off), but I don't think it's a psychological thing at all. Even if the system is functioning correctly, it's not clearly indicating whether it's on, partial on or off as the manual states it should. What would you say if the radio indicator failed to show the station frequency, but it tuned in the channels all the same. Would that be acceptable? Probably not. What if the system is fully off, but not indicated as such, and we need it on to save us from an accident? It could be a real serious safety issue if owners don't know what mode the system is in. Because it does not worked as described, it makes me question what mode it's in.

If they've changed it so that only the FDII models can get full off, then there needs to be an addendum released for the owners manual stating that.

 

[Hitzy]

Just a question of psycology more than anything. Why do those that think/know they have this issue care? Has there been a time yet they needed that unavailible mode? Has there been an off-road situation where ESP activated when you wish it did not?

Most people I know, even those with trucks/SUV's, never need to disable ESP. It's always on and when it activates, people usually think it helped them. Off road, you probably don't need to disable ESP unless you are driving rallye style, beaches, sand dunes, or decently maintained dirt/gravel. Winter, there is snow driving, but most people don't drive sideways in the snow and again, when ESP activates think it "helped" them.

If you want some wheel slip (2 for 2WD or 4 for 4WD) on low friction surfaces, partial off works as advertised.

I was a little ticked at first just becasue it doesn't work as advertised.....but after realising the only difference is the ERM on/off between ESP off and partial off, it really doesn't matter to me anymore. It really won't make any difference in any driving condition I will be in with the Pat.....:smiley_thumbs_up:

 

[APT]

The difference between radio station not showing and ESP off not showing is almost everyone uses the radio station display every minute the ignition is in run or acc.

I agree there would be an issue if the ESP was realyl off, but not indicated. I do not think that has been confirmed yet. There is the owner's manual discrepency

Personally, I would be pissed if I were told I could disable ESP at least up to 35mph and I could not. I actually do drive under such condiitons when ESP has cut in when I have not wanted it. I just believe I am in the <1% who know and care. For yet another reason, I'm glad I got my 2007. I wonder is FDI Compasses have this issue too.

 

[jepstr67]

I won't know if I care until snow comes back. I also want to know if it is just a display problem or a display and drive mode problem.

 

[patriotpierre]

Todde702, APT, Jeepstr67, I totally agree with your comments or statements. When you buy a product that cost you what a Patriot 4X4 costs anywhere in the world, you're the customer and you're in title and have all the rights to know what is wrong or what has been changed if there is a malfunction. In that perpective Chrysler is acting with the most discusting attitude. We, the customers, are being kept away or rejected once the sale is completed. They couldn't care less... they got our money. *&*% you now! I cannot blame my dealer, he is in the same boat as we are...waiting for an answer.

And yes, even if I don't ever use ESP off, I want it to work as stated. False representation! Do we have a legal ressource for this?

 

[inouk]

Hi,

I have a Patriot 2008 4x4 North Edition with manual transmission, built on June.

From what I read and understand from the operator manual, we have 6 systems that helps us in some driving conditions (summary):

1.- ABS
Control brakes pressure to avoid wheel lockups.

2.- BAS
Reduce distance braking by putting a optimum pressure (in emergency situation)

3.1.- TCS (engine)
If wheel spin is detected, brake pressure is applied on this wheel and engine power is reduced.

3.2.- TCS (wheels)
If one wheel is spinning faster than the other, a brake is applied and the torque is "transfered" to the other wheel that is not spinning.

4.- ERM
If you turn too fast, enough to lift both wheel, it'll apply the brake of some wheel and engine power may be reduced. Used only in extreme cases.

5.- HDC
Maintains the vehicule speed while descending hills (a fake "engine-braking", but using brakes instead of the engine compression). Used only on off road situations.

6.- ESP
Corrects over-steering or under-steering of the vehicule by using the brake on some wheels.

As you may see, all system are "ABS alike" but adapted for each situation.

Now, the difference between ESP normal, ESP partial off and ESP full off:

ESP normal:
-----------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): on
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: on
HDC: off
ESP: on

ESP partial off:
--------------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): off
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: on
HDC: on only if off road mode and shift lever to L, otherwise, off (only in automatic models)
ESP: off

ESP full off:
--------------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): off
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: off
HDC: off
ESP: off

As you may see, the only difference between "ESP partial off" and "ESP full off" is ERM, the Electronic Roll Mitigation, and I think it's the reason why we can't have a ESP full off when we drive above 35 mph, it becomes "ESP Partial off". But, if we go under 35mph, it goes back to "ESP full off".

For HDC (descent control), I don't have it, it's an option in "off road" package.

So, yes, me too, I don't see "ESP OFF" in the odometer. I had to depress to put in "ESP Partial off" and depress again and hold it for about 7 seconds and the squiggle line illuminate. Am I in "ESP full off" ? I don't know and I don't want to test it by turning aggressively on the wet grass or dirt roads, and see if the engine power is reduced and brakes applied, but maybe you can try it and give us some news I'm better at it with my ATV... Hey, it's my first truck, I need pratice

 

[APT]

3.1.- TCS (engine)
If wheel spin is detected, engine power is reduced.

3.2.- TCS (wheels)
If one wheel is spinning faster than the other on the same axle, a brake is applied and the torque is "transfered" to the other wheel that is not spinning.


ESP normal:
-----------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): on
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: on
HDC: on, but for only Low and 4x4 Lock
ESP: on

ESP partial off:
--------------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): off
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: on
HDC: on only if off road mode and shift lever to L, otherwise, off (only in automatic models)
ESP: on

ESP full off:
--------------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): off
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: off
HDC: off
ESP: off

Editied for truth and clarification. ESP is on for ESP Partial mode, personally verified.

 

[patriotpierre]

Thanks for this summary. Still would like ESP full off to function as described.

 

[homac]

Not sure where we are going with this other than the need to be able to ESP off if you have any of the Patriot 4WD (4x4) models.

Has anyone with this issue had is resolved, or obtained a new vehicle yet?

 

[inouk]

Thanks APT for the corrections!

Thanks for this summary. Still would like ESP full off to function as described.

You mean, you want to see "ESP OFF" in the odometer or ESP OFF doesn't work at all (ESP and ERM are still "on" in that mode ?)

 

[Reddart]

Thanks APT for the corrections!

You mean, you want to see "ESP OFF" in the odometer or ESP OFF doesn't work at all (ESP and ERM are still "on" in that mode ?)

That's the thing...I don't know if I "don't" have ESP full off, or I do have it but it is not displayed.

I most likely will not need ESP full off, but it would be nice to know if it is working as it is supposed to...you never know.

 

[inouk]

That's the thing...I don't know if I "don't" have ESP full off, or I do have it but it is not displayed.

I most likely will not need ESP full off, but it would be nice to know if it is working as it is supposed to...you never know.

Yes, try it on wet grass, dirt road or snow

I deeply understand what you mean, but since the dealer and Chrysler aren't collaborative and/or doesn't know, you can verify it by yourself in the mean time... I'll try it when I'll have some time and keep you updated.

 

[quasimodem51]

I used the Patriot to pull the root stump of a tall cedar. I used a tow strap wrapped around the stump and hooked to both front tow hooks. In all instances, the Patriot was in Reverse

In normal mode ESP On, no wheels spun and the stump didn't move
In 4WD ESP On, no wheels spun and the stump moved slightly and then stopped, the wheels didn't spin, descent Control was on
In 4WD ESP Partially Off, same as above
In 4WD ESP Totally OFF, same as above

I had expected in normal mode the front wheel might slip and then AWD would kick in -- nothing.

So, I am unsure if my ESP or even my 4WD works for that matter. I *think* I saw a thread somewhere that said, you have to have the Patriot in Neutral prior to switching modes before the modes will take effect. Is this true?

 

[APT]

Quasi, you probably just don't have enough torque to pull a stump, or spin any tires before ESP and/or AWD kicks in. You said you were in reverse, so FWD bias and lots of weight up front for pulling up/out thast increases grip from the front tires. Whenever I pull stumps/trees out, I use my pickup in 4x4 low range for the most torque multiplication.

4WD lock can be engaged at any speed.

 

[jepstr67]

Well, I got a note back from Jeep again. Now they have gone back to my original encounter with my dealer where we agreed that the chime and the display do not work, but since the car with the skid lines does show up the ESP off might function as stated.

So I turned the table on them this time. I said, you know I will be trusting my lift to this vehicle in the winter on icy roads. Are you sure the ESP is on when it should be? You know the malfunctioning display in the off mode could be a symptom of a bigger problem with the drive system. Are you willing to risk liability for believing the system is working properly even though some parts of it clearly do not function as designed?

I guess we will see if the use of the word "liability" gets any results.