Perhaps they will find common sense after all.

 

Its a little too late for hybrids and electrics. Unless gas prices go back up to 4 bucks a gallon nobody will spend the extra for that stuff.

 

Who are you calling "nobody"?

 

Metalhead, I think the gas prices skyrocketing again is not so much an issue of "if" rather than "when." And even if that takes awhile, it would definately be to the automakers advantage to have tested, proven, electirc and hybrids available and ready to sell, then to get caught with their collective pants around their ankle like was the case recently. The economy fell in the toilet, gas shot through the roof, and the best the autoexecs had to offer was "Hey, we kinda have this idea for some type of electric car, but were not really sure how to do it." The problem is that for the majority of Americans, youre right. How soon we forget that we spent all summer paying $4+ a gallon for gas. Tons of people are now running out and buying F250 Super Dutys and the like because "Hey, gas is almost a buck a gallon! I can afford to drive this thing!" well.....at least till Memorial Day.

 

Can anyone show me the electric cars which can drive 300mls and recharge within minutes to drive the next 300mls?
Yes, noone can, and that´s the reason why electric cars won´t play a major role in the next future. Hybrid and electric will be a niche product for urban driving only until someone will come up with a real gas replacement. Guess this won´t happen in the next 10 years.

 

Can anyone show me the electric cars which can drive 300mls and recharge within minutes to drive the next 300mls?
Yes, no one can, and that´s the reason why electric cars won´t play a major role in the near future.

Kind of like the old wagon train days. You had to stop for the night to let the oxen rest.

 

The reason the big 3 are in trouble is because they rely so much on the big trucks and suv's to make money. Look at toyota and honda. You don't hear them crawling back to japan beging for bail out money so they must be doing something right. I would rather pay 23 grand for my patriot than pay 30 grand for a ford escape hybrid.

 

One major reason you don't see Toyota and Honda, et el, going back to their government is because they got government help to begin with! (that doesn't happen over here). Their government has ALWAYS help fund R&D for their automakers (and other industries, BTW) and here is an example of further help:
(This is eye-opening reading here folks.)

http://www.globalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail9418.htm

Their government doesn't tell the automakers "You guys are independent. Make it or die." Instead, they realize that the long term health of those industries is worth investing in.
I wish we would have had this kind of help many years ago.

 

Well jepstr67 i didn´t say that electric cars are impossible to make but i don´t see them in the next years replacing gas cars.
Automakers still have lot of trouble with the batteries. They are not only more expensive but doesn´t charge equal energy so you can still drive the same way you do with gas cars.
And the rechargeable batteries doesn´t last a carlife so they need to be replaced after a few years and this won´t be cheap.
Car world will be different in 10 years. Not sure if it will be all electric or something else but until then gas will still play the mayor role.

Aehm, did i mention Tesla? Do they still exist. Last i heard a couple of engineers and developpers leaved the company. Guess they know why they do that.

 

GM may be getting it right with the Volt. I remember reading about a military concept vehicle to replace the HMMV that operated on the same principle. It had a small diesel that ran a generator and small electric motors for each wheel. It was much more efficient than the HMMV and it even had a stealth mode where it just ran on batteries so you could move about silently.

 

That is the design of the new Wrangler EV as well.

Rends,
I am very disappointed with Tesla. They hit the media hard with a great new concept in EV technology and have yet to put a vehicle in the hands of a customer. Their clever design using 100s of small batteries is interesting but not the real answer. In the long run you are completely correct about batteries. I think the best alternative is capacitor power storage. Batteries are too heavy, too short of a life span, and too slow to charge. If we ever see real useful EVs they will use capacitors as an energy storage method. Into a power station, a quick zap of power and off you go again, just like a petrolium car.

 

I'm surprised at the lack of knowledge among this crowd regarding EV technologies. Check out companies like Altairnano, A123, and NEC. As well as Better Place. Electric vehicles are the future, IMO. Wind, solar, and nuclear energy will be able to produce the electricity. Nano-technology in batteries (Lithium Ion for now) will help with storage. The technology is coming along. Infrastructure will be the major hurdle. In order to charge fast, you need a high voltage line. That involves safety issues, as well as the infrastructure. But it can be done. Look at Better Place: instead of pulling in to a gas station to fill up, you swap batteries.

Also, the Honda CFX Clarity Hydrogen Fuel Cell concept is interesting.

 

Now heres an idea.....Nuclear powered Patriot Hey, my ship went half way around the world and back and never stopped at the Exxon station

 

Well thinking about a nuclear Patriot this comes into my mind:

My cousin is working on one of these Patriots. Not nuclear but AA.

 

JP, leave politics out of this one please.

Rends, on a day to day basis, how many times do you drive 300 miles? Most people drive less then 60 miles in a day, home to work, work to home then a few errands at night (trip to the mall, pickup dinner, then back home). So while you are correct that the range isn't there for a long trip, that's not how vehicles are used on a day to day basis. Rent Who Killed the Electric Car, it's an interesting movie and they state an interesting fact, electric cars are NOT for everyone. They are only for about 90% of the population. Besides, just before the GM EV-1 (by far the most successful full EV ever made) was scrapped, it's range had been boosted to 100+ miles per charge. May not seem like much, but take note of how many actual miles you drive each day, and I'd bet you'd find the 90% of your driving falls easily into < 100 miles a day.

I myself, even though I drive from the NE suburbs of Philly over to Jersey everyday for work, the route I take is 18 miles, 36 miles round trip, that still leaves me 50-60+ miles of errand driving (if I didn't top off/charge at work)

 

...
Rends, on a day to day basis, how many times do you drive 300 miles? Most people drive less then 60 miles in a day, home to work, work to home then a few errands at night (trip to the mall, pickup dinner, then back home). So while you are correct that the range isn't there for a long trip, that's not how vehicles are used on a day to day basis. ...

Sure most people don´t drive hundrets of mls per day but i and i´m pretty sure lot of people drive hundrets of kilometer a few times per year because of holidays or something else.
And now? Buy or rent a gas car just for these events?
I for myself drive 400km to my family 3-5 times per year. Renting a gas car for days or weeks would be very expensive for me.

 

Well said Todde. Same thing I've always thought. I have a 13 mile commute. So that's 26 miles a day, excluding anywhere else I may go after work. Which tends to be often (ice rink, ski resorts), but if the infrastructure was in place, I could "top off" at work or home quick before heading out again. And with the continuing increases in battery technology, 100 mile range isn't that far fetched.

Not to turn this into a political debate, but I have to wonder what kind of influence the major oil companies have had in "discouraging" EV and alternative fueled vehicle development.

 

Not to turn this into a political debate, but I have to wonder what kind of influence the major oil companies have had in "discouraging" EV and alternative fueled vehicle development.

The #1 killer of the EV is cost.
They stopped working on it because gas prices came crashing back down.
Mainstream (the vast majority) customers were not going to pay enough of a premium to go electric when gas was so cheap.

With the current price resets and recession alternative fuels are again quite expensive compared to gas. This time I don't think that will kill development because the manufacturer's are far enough down the path (at least Toyota, Honda, and Ford to some extent). Just don't expect the alternative energies to keep up their pace before this storm. Already hybrids are not selling because they have a premium price with a longer payback now due to lower prices. Yes, those that feel that saving the planet is their #1 concern will buy them. Those that are more concerned about making ends meet for the month aren't going to pay that premium.

For example, I read that many communities are scaling back recycling. Why? Because it now will cost too much for them to do. The prices for recyclable materials have dropped significantly because demand for goods produced with them have tanked. So instead of being a source of income or only a small drain these programs are becoming quite expensive just as available cash dwindles.

 

I know I'm coming in late on this and there are a lot of more experienced, techically-minded folks who have chimed in, but had Jeep produced a hybrid or electric Pat I would gladly have paid a couple of thousand dollards more for that than the $23K I paid for my '07. I seriously looked into getting the Escape Hybrid; the only reason I didn't was that there were (and possible are still) no shops qualified to work on the hybrid parts here in my neck of Germany.
I love my Jeep and plan to drive it until it dies, but I respect the advances in technology and look forward to the new vehicles we have (hopefully) coming our way in the next few years.

 

wow! cool truck! If military use it against the rebel . . . they will certainly won!