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Discussion starter · #141 · (Edited)
Other Thoughts and Recommendations:

I recommend that others planning to purchase a PCM Upgrade from B&G Performance also do some work on their exhaust at some point to get the most out of it.

I suspect the customized shorty Mopar header that replaced my pre-cat has made the mid-range pickup from the tune more pronounced. *WARNING: DO NOT purchase a header which has tubes larger than 2.25". Based on all my research, smaller 4 and 6-cylinder engines actually LOSE Low-to-Mid range power as the diameter of the header tubes increase in Naturally Aspirated engines. The first thing I noticed on the Mopar header was that the header tubes are SMALLER in diameter (2.25") than the stock exhaust manifold. I can assure you Mopar had this in mind when they designed them.

In my opinion, the best thing you can do for optimal torque on a Patriot, is to replace the one piece exhaust manifold & precat with a header that has smaller diameter tubes. Secondly, add a cold air intake, get some good spark plugs with Iridium, and keep the stock exhaust (or upgrade piping to no greater than 2.25" and leave the stock resonator or muffler). This should keep back pressure optimal for low-end power on our 4-cylinder engines. Finish up with an ecu tune from B&G Performance. I will be putting my stock resonator (and possibly muffler) back on soon to verify this. Granted, this solution is not exclusive to the low end of the power band, but it appears to be the best we can do at the moment on a Jeep Patriot.

All of this should cost no more than $1,350 - 1,500 including the B&G Performance tune, which is a lot less than a turbo when you consider troubleshooting & labor, as well as maintenance. As I've detailed, the results are definitely worth it (between 23-28 HP, some moderate mid-range torque and better throttle response) Besides, all the time and cost spent on an engineer 'trying' to manipulate our PCM to 'allow' a turbo to work is plain crazy. Enough good techs have been left banging their heads working on mine trying to get our PCM to allow any serious modifications.

Alas, it hasn't all been a waste of my time and money knowing that other owners can use this information to build a better performing Patriot more cost-effectively.

{-Stop the financial terrorists.. Crash JP Morgan, Buy SILVER!-}
 
Excellent work policeman! And thanks for the answers to those questions as well. I think this thread will be very beneficial to future patriot modders. This thread should be moved to the knowledge base, or at least stickied here.
 
No worries. I haven't had a chance to do any more tests here either.

Thanks for your answer, I get what you're saying about updating the VIN.

My concern wasn't so much from issues with the dealer, I just don't want to waste money and B&G's time getting something they can't use (not reprogrammable).

B&G told me that one off Ebay would probably work as long as it's the same part number. So I start shopping around and asking questions and I get this response from one source:

"....these modules are often VIN specific and may not be reprogrammable. So you may need to look into that before ordering."

That got me thinking maybe not everything is reprogrammable, so that's what prompted the question. Sorry if I didn't word it very well.

I'll give B&G another call and get the details cleaned up and post back.
 
Is B&G ready to start modifying PCM's? Will it increase the fuel mileage, as that's what I'm looking for the most. Fuel mileage. Extra power is just an added benefit.
 
@spacepoliceman

I order my 2011 pcm from my dealership today:pepper: Because 2011 pcm it's not the same of 2010 so no pcm at the scrapyard....:doh:After I will ship my pcm for 91 octane tune:notworthy:

I got 2011 jeep compass 2.4 north edition 4x4 manual.
 
Discussion starter · #148 · (Edited)
2.25" Resonator & Throttle Body Work

If you recall, I previously had two mufflers in my exhaust setup. The upstream (or middle) muffler was a slightly smaller diameter glasspack with flow directors, creating less Noise than a standalone Dynomax high flow muffler.

However, I did not want to sacrifice performance just to quite the overall sound of a more free flowing exhaust. After finding the 'Holy Grail' of exhaust science published here: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0505em_exh/index1.html, I learned about "Pressure Wave" considerations and decided to try out an 18" resonator instead. Resonators (i.e. original OEM setup) use a perforated core (no flow directors) and effectively 'terminates' the pressure wave, thereby reducing power loss. (Part: Vibrant 1791)

The Vibrant 2.25" resonator did make the exhaust slightly louder than the 18" glasspack that it replaced, but still much quieter than the rear muffler by itself. It is also much cleaner sounding throughout the entire RPM band, from cruising to wide open throttle. More importantly, I couldn't believe how much it opened up the top end! If you recall, I've had the glasspack on the Patriot since I had the tune, and thus never had the chance to test the tune with a near zero-loss exhaust. Any power that might have been lost on the low end is hardly noticeable, whereas the improvement in the middle to top end is very noticeable.

This signifies to me that you will get more out of a B&G Performance Tune with a free flowing exhaust.(duH)

On another note, I found a used throttle body with only 12K miles on eBay for $100 and had it sent out to Dan at TheFastMan.com who works wonders on all kinds of Throttle Bodies. I will keep you posted on the results and when all is said and done hope to finally get this Riot Dyno'd.

By the way guys, always check with your local dealer to verify the part number you need before ordering from somewhere else. For all 2007-2010 model Jeep Patriots, use Mopar Part# 04891735AC (same as Interchange Part# 337-02184). I 'believe' this is the same throttle body for 2011-12s as well.


{-Stop the financial terrorists.. Crash JP Morgan, Buy SILVER!-}
 
Discussion starter · #149 · (Edited)
'CALL' B&G Performance

I sent B&G an email the other day about getting the PCM done in Australia, but I haven't had a reply yet. It's probably in the too hard basket down here. :(
B&G Performance does not have much in the way of staff for a shop that does so much damn work. The guys turning wrenches all day in the shop are the same ones answering the phones, checking emails, etc. They always seem to be very busy. I am starting to think Dave does everything there.

Don't email them. Call them, over and over if you have to. If Dave doesn't answer, it is probably because he is working in the shop.

{-Stop the financial terrorists.. Crash JP Morgan, Buy SILVER!-}
 
Discussion starter · #151 · (Edited)
Video + ScanGauge X-Gauge Codes

I finally got ahold of a good camera to record some video & audio of the Patriot in action while we were out offroading this weekend. The best video is the last one if you want to skip right to it. Let me know what you guys think about the sound coming from this 4-banger.

The first couple of videos show us just getting started in some soft mud which would be easy to sink and get stuck in if you were to drive too slowly through it.

This last video contains more heavy-duty Off-Roading, showing the RIOT nearly bottoming out a few times, while still able to tread through the deep ruts:

Note: For the most part, all of this was done with the RIOT in Low gear while in 4x4 Lock mode.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--Additional X-Gauge Codes that have been tested and verified to work on Jeep Patriots--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oil Temperature (Degrees F)
TXD: 07E0223159
RXF: 046205310659
RXD: 3008
MTH: 00090005FFD8
NAME: OIL
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambient Air Temperature (Degrees F)
TXD: 07E022302F
RXF: 04620530062F
RXD: 3008
MTH: 002700140000
NAME: AIR
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air Fuel Ratio (Alternate - Bank General)
TXD: 07DF0144
RXF: 044145440000
RXD: 2808
MTH: 05B900800000
NAME: A/F
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Note: the OIL Temperature is critical to monitor while Off-Roading in Low Gear. Go easy on it and watch the temps. After off-roading for about an hour or so, my oil temp got as high as 224 Degrees Fahrenheit.


{-Stop financial weapons of mass destruction.. Crash JP Morgan, Buy SILVER!-}
 
spacepoliceman

first video, about 0:28 - Holy hell, that thing has BAWLS!! I'm watching with the sound off, but just watching you pull away that fast - ON DIRT - is a pretty good indication as to how much more power you're putting down. NICE!
 
Discussion starter · #154 · (Edited)
Is B&G ready to start modifying PCM's? Will it increase the fuel mileage, as that's what I'm looking for the most. Fuel mileage. Extra power is just an added benefit.
Yessiree, B&G Performance is ready when you are willing. Fuel economy is about the same with this tune, overall. Since I generally drive more aggressively than the average driver, I get slightly less in the City (about a 1MPG), while I generally average 1-2 MPG better mileage on the HWY as long as I do 65-70 MPH, but actually goes down if going 80MPH or more.

If I drive like a 'normal' human being (not conservatively), and obey the speed limit, I get 1-2 MPG better mileage between both City / Highway. Thus, the average driver CAN get better fuel economy overall.

However, it's important to note, I have a more aggressive tune. The PCM can be tuned to be less aggressive and more economical, which would give up 'some' of the added power as a trade-off and still be an improvement over stock. Of course, you'd have to call Dave @ B&G Performance and ask him to be certain if he's willing to do that for ya.

{Derivatives = Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction. Stop economic terrorism.. Crash JP Morgan, Buy SILVER!}
 
Discussion starter · #156 · (Edited)
1. Does the Patriot share an ECU with other vehicles that already have canned tunes available? If so what are the options (and are there differences based on year or engine/transmission configuration)?

2. Is there tuning software that can be used to adjust the factory Patriot ECU?
1.) Answer = NO

2.) Answer = NO


I have probably spent a couple hundred hours of research during this project for the entire Jeep Patriot community so that you don't have to. I even convinced B&G Performance to create the 1st and ONLY Tune for the Jeep Patriot by way of extreme persistence. I certainly wouldn't have done this if a Handheld Tuner type device was available, by anyone.(I would have tried that first)

To the surprise of many, when you purchase a late model Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep now days, you don't really own it.(?) The brains of it, the PCM, is 'extremely' volatile and will either throw the engine into Safe/Limp mode, or simply ignore your modifications when attempting to manipulate sensors or modify the engine.(excluding exhaust work) This means unlike the olden days, you do NOT have the Freedom to 'fully modify' YOUR ride in the manner in which you choose, even if you have paid for it in full.

Modern Mopar PCMs are locked down tight using heavy encryption algos. So far, no one has cracked it, although DiabloSport was 'Rumoured' to have done so late last year, but haven't come up with a single tune for any of the newer Mopar PCMs. Lastly, even IF they were to crack the encryption, you can bet your last silver eagle they WILL NOT make a tune for the Jeep Patriot. For the most part, the ONLY 4-cylinder engines to get tunes from any of the major tuners are race inspired models like the Caliber SRT-4. Lastly, the Tuner still needs to be able to:

a.) develop a tune applicable to your specific vehicle

-OR-

b.) create a handheld unit with the specific hash needed to unlock the PCM for tuning, which they don't want to do for fear of Intellectual Property theft.

The aforementioned work takes a heck of a lot of capital for research and development up front, for each and every make and model. Thus, unless the tuner/developer like DiabloSport is being flooded with thousands of requests from Jeep Patriot Owners means this will never happen.

What B&G Performance has done is reverse-engineered the software running on the PCM using a combination of some rather advanced diagnostics equipment to monitor and record input-output signals while hooked up to official Chrysler equipment, which by the way only dealers have, then modified it.

B&G Performance has created many tunes that also helped some other Chrysler vehicles record the fastest times in the world just as they did with the MS1k tune (for Caliber SRT-4) that RealTune sells for them.

Long story short, the B&G Performance tune is not quite a fully custom tune, but it is definitely not a simple canned tune. Keep in mind, they have created so many tunes, and on so many different models including other similar World Engines by Chrysler. Also, if you recall, I actually had to send them my PCM. Hence, this particular tune is based on the PCM I sent them and some exhaust work which I mentioned to them and took approximately 3-4 weeks of development. They didn't need the entire vehicle since they have modern equipment and some of it is virtualized. So yeah, it is definitely custom, but not quite the same as putting it up on the dyno and having it tuned.

I realize this thread is long, but please make sure you go back and read through all of it before posting something that we may have been over already. No biggie though, you had good questions. Please PM me if you'd like me to elaborate on anything other than a quick question. THX..

{Derivatives = Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction. Stop economic terrorism.. Crash JP Morgan, Buy SILVER!}
 
You can work around even the most locked down ECUs by using a special turbo setup. It does involve limiting the reported sensor values back to the stock ECU with voltage clamps so it doesn't see MAP [boost], AFR, EGT, and EGO values go out of range. They do it to Mazda RX8s down here with decent results. I'd be interested to see what a small 4~6psi turbo with only 50hp and whatever ft/lbs would achieve without decompressing the motor. It would probably work well on the manual, not sure about the CVT from what I have read.
 
Discussion starter · #160 · (Edited)
Thanks for posting all the Video. What were you trying to show us ? Is that a new Ford Explorer ? WTF ?
Just showing some fun I was having with the Patriot. Nothing too serious, just screwing around. It was my first try filming, editing and uploading to youtube. At the time, the only place where I could make any video without getting popped by the police is.. you guessed it, offroad. I suppose I should have waited for the perfect moment, environment, or whatever to try and appease everyone.

As family man, I don't have the luxury getting out whenever, wherever I want, so this was the best I could do with what I had to work with. Apologies for the big disappointment. I was just itching to take some video and get familiar with this camera with the opportunity I had.

{Derivatives = Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction. Stop economic terrorism.. Crash JP Morgan, Buy SILVER!}
 
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