control arm help

jaison · Feb 14, 2021

I need some help. I'm tasked with replacing my front lower control arms. I went ahead and go the Moogs with the grease fitting on the ball joint. I got the old one out with little issue but damn getting the new one in has been a challenge. I cant get it in right to where i can push the bolt up through the cross member. I already tore the ball joint bushing lol I'm beyond frustrated with lower back pain to boot. What am I missing? Any video I watch makes it seem easy. I like doing things myself while saving money.

Sandstone · Feb 14, 2021

Have you tried using a tapered pin to center the bushing?

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trialsstar3 · Feb 16, 2021

jaison said:
I need some help. I'm tasked with replacing my front lower control arms. I went ahead and go the Moogs with the grease fitting on the ball joint. I got the old one out with little issue but damn getting the new one in has been a challenge. I cant get it in right to where i can push the bolt up through the cross member. I already tore the ball joint bushing lol I'm beyond frustrated with lower back pain to boot. What am I missing? Any video I watch makes it seem easy. I like doing things myself while saving money.

Hello, I've changed 4 sets of arms in the last few months. The moogs are by far the best ones out there but they also have the least flexible rear bush..
So the way to get these new arms in is to lubricate the front bush fixing point with a silicon based grease.
Next insert the rear bush first when fitting the new arm.. you can now put the bolt through and loosely spin the nut on.. (copper grease the **** outta all suspension bolts too 👍)
Now you can pivot the arm forward and locate it into the front (pre lubricated) mount point. A bit of a tap with a rubber mallet on the end of the arm should get it in with ease. Insert the bolt finger tight.
Next use the same mallet and 'tap' the ball joint spigot towards the the center of the car, this will get it to the best angle to insert into the hub casting.
Pull down the arm, locate the ball joint and tap home with rubber mallet (again I use plenty of copper slip for serviceable items) insert pinch bolt and tighten up,
Now tighten the rear bush nut and bolt, however leave the front bush bolt finger tight until the car is on the ground and suspension settled to normal ride height. (Roll car forward and backward a few feet)
Finally tighten the front bush bolt.
Grease your Moog ball joints with a synthetic silicon based PTFE loaded grease. 'loctite Superlube' is just the job. This will not absorb into the rubber boots degrading them and the PTFE will embed into the nylon wearing surfaces to reduce wear and aid lower friction.
Just out of curiosity, if you still have the old arms can you measure from the center of the ball joint to the center of the front bush for me please?. Many aftermarket arms are completely the weomt lengths. Moog got their sizes absolutely spot on tho 👍
Paul

kmart017 · Feb 20, 2021

jaison said:
I need some help. I'm tasked with replacing my front lower control arms. I went ahead and go the Moogs with the grease fitting on the ball joint. I got the old one out with little issue but damn getting the new one in has been a challenge. I cant get it in right to where i can push the bolt up through the cross member. I already tore the ball joint bushing lol I'm beyond frustrated with lower back pain to boot. What am I missing? Any video I watch makes it seem easy. I like doing things myself while saving money.

I had the same issue today. The moog control arm was horrible to put back in. It took a lot of muscling, hitting, etc. but it's in. I'm just hoping nothing else got damaged in the process. The old ball joint was stuck pretty good so I put a jack under the fork and used that to separate it. The rear was by far the worst part though. I have the passenger side moog arm on the way and I'm not looking forward to that job.

jaison · Feb 21, 2021

Sandstone said:
Have you tried using a tapered pin to center the bushing?

Pry Bar Set, 3 Piece

Amazing deals on this 3Pc Pry Bar Set at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Thanks. Those will come in handy regardless.

trialsstar3 said:
Hello, I've changed 4 sets of arms in the last few months. The moogs are by far the best ones out there but they also have the least flexible rear bush..
So the way to get these new arms in is to lubricate the front bush fixing point with a silicon based grease.
Next insert the rear bush first when fitting the new arm.. you can now put the bolt through and loosely spin the nut on.. (copper grease the **** outta all suspension bolts too 👍)
Now you can pivot the arm forward and locate it into the front (pre lubricated) mount point. A bit of a tap with a rubber mallet on the end of the arm should get it in with ease. Insert the bolt finger tight.
Next use the same mallet and 'tap' the ball joint spigot towards the the center of the car, this will get it to the best angle to insert into the hub casting.
Pull down the arm, locate the ball joint and tap home with rubber mallet (again I use plenty of copper slip for serviceable items) insert pinch bolt and tighten up,
Now tighten the rear bush nut and bolt, however leave the front bush bolt finger tight until the car is on the ground and suspension settled to normal ride height. (Roll car forward and backward a few feet)
Finally tighten the front bush bolt.
Grease your Moog ball joints with a synthetic silicon based PTFE loaded grease. 'loctite Superlube' is just the job. This will not absorb into the rubber boots degrading them and the PTFE will embed into the nylon wearing surfaces to reduce wear and aid lower friction.
Just out of curiosity, if you still have the old arms can you measure from the center of the ball joint to the center of the front bush for me please?. Many aftermarket arms are completely the weomt lengths. Moog got their sizes absolutely spot on tho 👍
Paul

I wish I could start all over again or just not do it but i like fixing things on my own. I definitely didn't lube it enough. I cant even get it back out . I ordered a new arm because i killed the ball joint boot.

Yes, I'll get a measurement for you.

kmart017 said:
I had the same issue today. The moog control arm was horrible to put back in. It took a lot of muscling, hitting, etc. but it's in. I'm just hoping nothing else got damaged in the process. The old ball joint was stuck pretty good so I put a jack under the fork and used that to separate it. The rear was by far the worst part though. I have the passenger side moog arm on the way and I'm not looking forward to that job.

yeah its quite the task for me. I'll probably just take it somewhere for the other side if i ever get the passenger side on. I already put too much time into this.

Do any of yall live in northeast Ohio or northwest Pennsylvania?

kmart017 · Feb 21, 2021

jaison said:
Thanks. Those will come in handy regardless.

I wish I could start all over again or just not do it but i like fixing things on my own. I definitely didn't lube it enough. I cant even get it back out . I ordered a new arm because i killed the ball joint boot.

Yes, I'll get a measurement for you.

yeah its quite the task for me. I'll probably just take it somewhere for the other side if i ever get the passenger side on. I already put too much time into this.

Do any of yall live in northeast Ohio or northwest Pennsylvania?

Southern Virginia here

Sandstone · Feb 21, 2021

Hey Jaison, if you could post a pic or two on how it's sitting in there now it might give us a better idea on how to guide you.

kmart017 · Feb 21, 2021

trialsstar3 said:
Hello, I've changed 4 sets of arms in the last few months. The moogs are by far the best ones out there but they also have the least flexible rear bush..
So the way to get these new arms in is to lubricate the front bush fixing point with a silicon based grease.
Next insert the rear bush first when fitting the new arm.. you can now put the bolt through and loosely spin the nut on.. (copper grease the **** outta all suspension bolts too 👍)
Now you can pivot the arm forward and locate it into the front (pre lubricated) mount point. A bit of a tap with a rubber mallet on the end of the arm should get it in with ease. Insert the bolt finger tight.
Next use the same mallet and 'tap' the ball joint spigot towards the the center of the car, this will get it to the best angle to insert into the hub casting.
Pull down the arm, locate the ball joint and tap home with rubber mallet (again I use plenty of copper slip for serviceable items) insert pinch bolt and tighten up,
Now tighten the rear bush nut and bolt, however leave the front bush bolt finger tight until the car is on the ground and suspension settled to normal ride height. (Roll car forward and backward a few feet)
Finally tighten the front bush bolt.
Grease your Moog ball joints with a synthetic silicon based PTFE loaded grease. 'loctite Superlube' is just the job. This will not absorb into the rubber boots degrading them and the PTFE will embed into the nylon wearing surfaces to reduce wear and aid lower friction.
Just out of curiosity, if you still have the old arms can you measure from the center of the ball joint to the center of the front bush for me please?. Many aftermarket arms are completely the weomt lengths. Moog got their sizes absolutely spot on tho 👍
Paul

Following the Haynes manual, I torqued my front bushing bolt while it was still on jack stands. Is there a reason for torquing it while it’s on the ground instead?

trialsstar3 · Feb 21, 2021

kmart017 said:
Following the Haynes manual, I torqued my front bushing bolt while it was still on jack stands. Is there a reason for torquing it while it’s on the ground instead?

The front control bush will be under permanent deformation if torqued up while no weight on the suspension.
They last much longer when tightened up on the with the full vehicle weight on its wheels.
This isn'tnt the case for all type of bush but certainly on set-ups where a 'bonded' rubber bush is utilised.
👍

jaison · Feb 22, 2021

Sandstone said:
Hey Jaison, if you could post a pic or two on how it's sitting in there now it might give us a better idea on how to guide you.

I hope this helps.

trialsstar3 · Feb 22, 2021

jaison said:
I hope this helps.

View attachment 93531 View attachment 93532 View attachment 93533 View attachment 93534 View attachment 93535 View attachment 93536 View attachment 93537

So it should be fairly easy to get the bolt thro, but you'll have no where near the other connections. Then once the bolt it through manipulate the arm forward and into the other points.

Sandstone · Feb 22, 2021

@jaison , from what I can see it looks like the bushing is centered at the bottom but not the top and that's where it's stuck.

If you have something like a tapered pin, you could try coming up through the bushing from the bottom up through the top to see if you can get it more centered.
Maybe a small squirt of something like PB blaster between the bushing mount and the chassis to try to help it move.

trialsstar3 · Feb 22, 2021

jaison said:
I hope this helps.

View attachment 93531 View attachment 93532 View attachment 93533 View attachment 93534 View attachment 93535 View attachment 93536 View attachment 93537

trialsstar3 · Feb 22, 2021

trialsstar3 said:
View attachment 93538

Ignore the fact that the picture of the arm is upside down...

kmart017 · Feb 22, 2021

You could just say screw it, use some long zip ties running from the steering knuckle to the subframe/cross member and take it for a final joy ride? That’s how I felt when I was installing mine. This is not actual advice and I’m not liable if anyone tries this.

jaison · Feb 22, 2021

@Sandstone It seems like when i push lets say a screwdriver up and manipulate it, it gets centered. As soon as i remove any force it goes back to off centered last I tried. I'll try blasting it. I do appreciate the guidance. We all have to start from the bottom.

jaison · Feb 22, 2021

trialsstar3 said:
Just out of curiosity, if you still have the old arms can you measure from the center of the ball joint to the center of the front bush for me please?

I measured 13.25 inches.

jaison · Feb 22, 2021

Sandstone said:
Maybe a small squirt of something like PB blaster between the bushing mount and the chassis to try to help it move.

Thanks I got it out. Man that PB blaster is some good stuff. Makes sense because i sprayed if a few times before i pulled the original old one out. I feel confident now about attempting to do the new one again if i lube the crap out of it.

All i have is an NLGI #2 grease. Advanced auto is only a couple blocks away. Should i go get a silicone based grease like @trialsstar3 suggested?

trialsstar3 · Feb 22, 2021

jaison said:
Thanks I got it out. Man that PB blaster is some good stuff. Makes sense because i sprayed if a few times before i pulled the original old one out. I feel confident now about attempting to do the new one again if i lube the crap out of it.

All i have is an NLGI #2 grease. Advanced auto is only a couple blocks away. Should i go get a silicone based grease like @trialsstar3 suggested?

Any heavy grease will work, however most oil based grease's will absorb into rubber and deteriorate it. But I'm sure byou won't notice any difference it just knocks time iff at the end if its life same with the torquing of the front bush whilst sat on the ground. E.g. a bush lubricated with silicone based grease and torqued whilst under its 'normal' load say lasts 10 years... When a bush subject to the wrong grease and under constant twisting stress for its whole life may only last 6-7 years... Makes a huge difference if you're on a production line in a car plant offering long new car warranties.

trialsstar3 · Feb 22, 2021

jaison said:
Thanks I got it out. Man that PB blaster is some good stuff. Makes sense because i sprayed if a few times before i pulled the original old one out. I feel confident now about attempting to do the new one again if i lube the crap out of it.

All i have is an NLGI #2 grease. Advanced auto is only a couple blocks away. Should i go get a silicone based grease like @trialsstar3 suggested?

I have another technique if you're still struggling...
Use your screwdriver or pry bar to twist the bush so it alignes with the top hole... Now drop a short (cut down to about 1/2") 14mm bolt (or a bar or small socket etc..) through the top hole so it drops into the bush ans thus holding it in place.
Next take your bolt (lubricated) and tap it through from the underside... When its about half way through the bush hit it hard! So it goes all the way through and drives out your locating piece in the process... Nut on and voilà....

control arm help

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