2014 manual trans wont climb hills

xcaret · Mar 8, 2016

I have a 2014 Patriot 4x4 with manual 5 spd trans , it has no low range. The other day I tried climbing a icy rather steep hill. It seemed like the engine was bogging down, I couldn't get the wheels to spin,. it was as if I was in third gear.
I hear the ones with the low range do this to prevent tire slippage , but didn't hear one without low range did it too.
I had it in 4x4 but didn't turn off the anti skid button , maybe I should have .
Any ideas ?

Trueblueriot14 · Mar 8, 2016

You might have more luck turning the esp off or partial off to be able to get more wheel spin.

nth256 · Mar 8, 2016

Brake Lock Differentials.

The Patriot was never equipped with LSDs or lockers of any sort; instead they used a computer controlled system that modulates the brakes in order to engage the standard open diff once it senses wheel spin. In some cases, it works great. In others, well, you end up not climbing icy hills. This is the "third gear" feeling you were experiencing, as the computer system tried desperately to find grip among the four wheels.

Also, the ESP system is a bit heavy-handed once it's been activated by the computer. Disabling it partially (or entirely) may have helped you some.

However, truth be known, tires make all the difference on ice. I, like an idiot, parked my Pat (on street tires) at the top of an icy hill one winter, and almost got myself and my son pinned between it and a tree as it slid down the hill towards us. Luckily, it hadn't built up much speed, and there was some rock edging along the driveway that caught the tires and stopped it before it got to the tree.

Get some decent ice/snow tires, and that hill will likely be a piece of cake.

silverflash · Mar 8, 2016

nth256 said:
Brake Lock Differentials.

The Patriot was never equipped with LSDs or lockers of any sort; instead they used a computer controlled system that modulates the brakes in order to engage the standard open diff once it senses wheel spin. In some cases, it works great. In others, well, you end up not climbing icy hills. This is the "third gear" feeling you were experiencing, as the computer system tried desperately to find grip among the four wheels.

Also, the ESP system is a bit heavy-handed once it's been activated by the computer. Disabling it partially (or entirely) may have helped you some.

However, truth be known, tires make all the difference on ice. I, like an idiot, parked my Pat (on street tires) at the top of an icy hill one winter, and almost got myself and my son pinned between it and a tree as it slid down the hill towards us. Luckily, it hadn't built up much speed, and there was some rock edging along the driveway that caught the tires and stopped it before it got to the tree.

Get some decent ice/snow tires, and that hill will likely be a piece of cake.

what he said. and turn off the ESP stuff fully off (hold in button for 5 seconds till it beeps and lights up on dash)and try again too...

Ignatz · Mar 9, 2016

This situation is not related to your transmission. It would happen with a CVT, conventional automatic, or a manual.

I'm with nth256: the bogging down you are feeling is the ESP system braking the wheels that were slipping. That's just as well, because the tires that were slipping weren't contributing to your forward traction. If you did make it up that hill, its because, in spite of the braking, the tires that weren't slipping had in fact found enough traction and were doing their job.

If you find yourself in frequent ice, again I'm with nth256 -- I suggest you get a dedicated winter tire. All-season tires are really 3-season tires. Even manufacturers admit this:
https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tire-guide/winter-tires-vs-allseason-tires.
http://generaltire.com/latest-news/...news-article/all-season-vs.-winter-tires-the-differences-of-a-cold-climate-tire
Here's a link to Edmund's test: http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/tire-test-all-season-vs-snow-vs-summer.html

I should add that dedicated winter tires still aren't magic and there is no substitute for prudence.

Just google "winter tires vs all season tires" and you'll get 1000 hits all saying the same thing.

Wooden Dog · Mar 15, 2016

I have a 5-speed and I've climbed ice-covered , steep , long driveways last winter outside Roslyn and had no trouble at all. I did it several times, for fun. Once without changing anything, once with 4WD "Locked", once with ESP partially disabled. No problem in any case.

milspectees · Mar 15, 2016

When are people going to get that the Patriot is not an off road vehicle, it's an AWD car.

silverflash · Mar 15, 2016

milspectees said:
When are people going to get that the Patriot is not an off road vehicle, it's an AWD car.

it's not a "car". It's a small suv. It has 9" of ground clearance- my fd1. Cars have 4/5 or 6 at most. And it's a step above AWD. It has a lockable center diff and will then allow a true 4wd hi experience. it's just lacking a low 4wd. it also normally runs in AWD which is cool for traveling on wet roads and such- no need to lock it in 4x4 like larger suv's that are normally rear-wheel drive and more dangerous in marginal road conditions.

most AWD's don't allow you to change anything regarding what torque goes where..and you can't disable anything like we can- turn esp off for example. We have lots of options they don't.

also, define "off-road". I have had it off-road numerous times going up to my camping spot in the mountains where your average "car", awd or not, would never make it due to low ground clearance. I have also had it on the beach in deep, soft, sand. i am not talking hard packed sand. Deep, soft sugar sand, tires aired down and locked in 4wd, again where no car based awd would work due to the low clearance at least.

Is the patriot a rock crawler? no way. but can it go where alot of people want to go normally to camp or on the beach? Yep. i've done so.

Its the best small 4x4/awd vehicle in the price range. Good enough off-road ability, excellent gas mileage for what it is, and great looks......

milspectees · Mar 15, 2016

silverflash said:
it's not a "car". It's a small suv. It has 9" of ground clearance- my fd1. Cars have 4/5 or 6 at most. And it's a step above AWD. It has a lockable center diff and will then allow a true 4wd hi experience. it's just lacking a low 4wd. it also normally runs in AWD which is cool for traveling on wet roads and such- no need to lock it in 4x4 like larger suv's that are normally rear-wheel drive and more dangerous in marginal road conditions.

most AWD's don't allow you to change anything regarding what torque goes where..and you can't disable anything like we can- turn esp off for example. We have lots of options they don't.

also, define "off-road". I have had it off-road numerous times going up to my camping spot in the mountains where your average "car", awd or not, would never make it due to low ground clearance. I have also had it on the beach in deep, soft, sand. i am not talking hard packed sand. Deep, soft sugar sand, tires aired down and locked in 4wd, again where no car based awd would work due to the low clearance at least.

Is the patriot a rock crawler? no way. but can it go where alot of people want to go normally to camp or on the beach? Yep. i've done so.

Its the best small 4x4/awd vehicle in the price range. Good enough off-road ability, excellent gas mileage for what it is, and great looks......

Get real, and don't be butthurt because someone criticized your car. It is no more an SUV than what a Volvo XC70 station wagon (which has roughly the same ground clearance) is. The Patriot DOES NOT have a diff lock center or otherwise, it is an AWD system just like a Golf 4-motion, XC70 or any other AWD car. Virtually every AWD car has switchable traction control. Good gas mileage? Consider this, a European engine of similar size and performance will get a good 10mpg more. Last but not least, you don't "control the torque". It has a switch that tells the computer to split it 50/50 front and back until it reaches around 25mph and then the computer takes over again.

I'm not saying that the Patriot's drive system isn't good, just that it's a part time, automatically activating AWD system it isn't a step above..

The reason people consider it full time AWD is because it activates quicker than most other full time AWD systems when conditions call for it. It provides a 100/0 static torque split. That gives it an efficiency advantage because it doesn't have to drive the gears in the rear drivetrain. They just freewheel which does cause some drag, but not as much as loaded gear upon gear so it's more efficient than a system with a center diff and 50/50 split. But when it's really needed, it activates in less than 15 degrees of wheel rotation (typically less than 100ms), provides a near 100% lockup for 100% torque transfer to the rear (if the front is totally without traction). This means it activates quicker than, for example, both a pure VC (Viscous Coupling) or a diff plus VC. The reason it gets dissed as an AWD system is that for just putzing around it normally stays in the 100/0 f/r distribution and it won't activate until there some need for it. You don't feel it working until it's really needed.

Define "lots of options"

I like the Patriot, but I am under no illusion as to what it is.

silverflash · Mar 15, 2016

milspectees said:
Get real, and don't be butthurt because someone criticized your car. It is no more an SUV than what a Volvo XC70 station wagon (which has roughly the same ground clearance) is. The Patriot DOES NOT have a diff lock center or otherwise, it is an AWD system just like a Golf 4-motion, XC70 or any other AWD car. Virtually every AWD car has switchable traction control. Good gas mileage? Consider this, a European engine of similar size and performance will get a good 10mpg more. Last but not least, you don't "control the torque". It has a switch that tells the computer to split it 50/50 front and back until it reaches around 25mph and then the computer takes over again.

I'm not saying that the Patriot's drive system isn't good, just that it's a part time, automatically activating AWD system it isn't a step above..

The reason people consider it full time AWD is because it activates quicker than most other full time AWD systems when conditions call for it. It provides a 100/0 static torque split. That gives it an efficiency advantage because it doesn't have to drive the gears in the rear drivetrain. They just freewheel which does cause some drag, but not as much as loaded gear upon gear so it's more efficient than a system with a center diff and 50/50 split. But when it's really needed, it activates in less than 15 degrees of wheel rotation (typically less than 100ms), provides a near 100% lockup for 100% torque transfer to the rear (if the front is totally without traction). This means it activates quicker than, for example, both a pure VC (Viscous Coupling) or a diff plus VC. The reason it gets dissed as an AWD system is that for just putzing around it normally stays in the 100/0 f/r distribution and it won't activate until there some need for it. You don't feel it working until it's really needed.

Define "lots of options"

I like the Patriot, but I am under no illusion as to what it is.

Looks like you are butthead, not me. With that said, my other "car" is a 2007 xterra 4x4 with meaty tires and after driving both in the same places, the patriot can do all just as good as the xterra except for the lack of the low gear in the patriot- which i rarely use anyhow. Perhaps I am under utilizing the capability of the xterra but my experience is my experience.

my post was merely stating that it's much more than an AWD car.

The patriot 4x4 fd1 has ZERO competition in it's price point or one even close..

milspectees · Mar 15, 2016

Try reading posts before you make stupid comments, no-one called anyone a butthead.

You're obviously in a relationship with your car and can't see the wood for the trees.

silverflash · Mar 15, 2016

milspectees said:
Try reading posts before you make stupid comments, no-one called anyone a butthead.

You're obviously in a relationship with your car and can't see the wood for the trees.

I don't really care what you think....

Ok, let's only post things here that are relevant to this thread from this point forward.

Sandstone · Mar 15, 2016

silverflash said:
Ok, let's only post things here that are relevant to this thread from this point forward.

Sounds like a great idea...

silverflash · Mar 15, 2016

as far as pulling a steep hill, i frequently go up a 32%/18 degree gravel road no problems in 1st gear and 4 locked with esp full off. I am doing that about 10mph or less. Further below, where it's really rocky and quite bumpy, i am forced to crawl up it at 5mph. That area is somewhat less steep but way rockier so that's why i can only go 5 mph otherwise it may shake the patriot to death. It doesn't lug the engine and i don't touch the clutch and it pulls fine at about 1200 rpms or so. I wish the 1st gear was a tad lower so i can take the climb slower but it just passes in my book which is fine.

bd1 · Mar 16, 2016

A 6-speed with wider "truck" gearing would have been interesting, but then pavement drivers might complain about the ultra-low and "useless" first gear range. The other problem with low range and such is that the rest of the drivetrain has to be able to support it. You don't want to twist the differentials or axles apart, for example.

(Years of power shifting a Mustang gave it a twisted driveshaft, which resulted in a heavy vibration around 80mph, just when Montana had "prudent and reasonable" as their speed limit in the daytime in the middle of nowhere. Nothing quite like being stuck at 70 and having a Crown Victoria blow past. A Ford Motorsport HD driveshaft took care of that problem for the rest of the life of the car.)

ralphfr · Mar 20, 2016

milspectees said:
Get real, and don't be butthurt because someone criticized your car. It is no more an SUV than what a Volvo XC70 station wagon (which has roughly the same ground clearance) is. The Patriot DOES NOT have a diff lock center or otherwise, it is an AWD system just like a Golf 4-motion, XC70 or any other AWD car. Virtually every AWD car has switchable traction control. Good gas mileage? Consider this, a European engine of similar size and performance will get a good 10mpg more. Last but not least, you don't "control the torque". It has a switch that tells the computer to split it 50/50 front and back until it reaches around 25mph and then the computer takes over again.
I'm not saying that the Patriot's drive system isn't good, just that it's a part time, automatically activating AWD system it isn't a step above..

The reason people consider it full time AWD is because it activates quicker than most other full time AWD systems when conditions call for it. It provides a 100/0 static torque split. That gives it an efficiency advantage because it doesn't have to drive the gears in the rear drivetrain. They just freewheel which does cause some drag, but not as much as loaded gear upon gear so it's more efficient than a system with a center diff and 50/50 split. But when it's really needed, it activates in less than 15 degrees of wheel rotation (typically less than 100ms), provides a near 100% lockup for 100% torque transfer to the rear (if the front is totally without traction). This means it activates quicker than, for example, both a pure VC (Viscous Coupling) or a diff plus VC. The reason it gets dissed as an AWD system is that for just putzing around it normally stays in the 100/0 f/r distribution and it won't activate until there some need for it. You don't feel it working until it's really needed.

Define "lots of options"

I like the Patriot, but I am under no illusion as to what it is.

I think the 50/50 split is the difference between the Patriot and most other SUV's w/o a center diff aka true 4 wheel drive. And I think it is a major and important difference. Where would you be driving off-road and regularly exceeding the 25mph threshold? IMO, for those of us not expecting to rock-hop regularly it's the best of both world's.

2014 manual trans wont climb hills

xcaret

Trueblueriot14

nth256

silverflash

Ignatz

Wooden Dog

milspectees

silverflash

milspectees

silverflash

milspectees

silverflash

Sandstone

silverflash

bd1

ralphfr

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