Hell the Yaris and Fit only have 6 parts to them anyway.
What could go wrong?

 

I don't know that the Caliber and the Jetta should be considered small cars. The Caliber is about twice the size of a fit...but whatever they say I guess....

 

Hmmm, CR tends to be a reputable magazine. Perhaps I should have heeded the naysayers and sprung for the Aston-Marton Vanquish instead of the Patriot - stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

Yep, stupid is as stupid does.

Seriously Quasi, if your pockets are sufficiently deep, why not both a Patriot and a Vanquish in the carriage house? Both vehicles have one highly desirable feature in common: lots of character and charming good looks.

As far as Consumer Reports is concerned, I wouldn't care a whit what they might have to say about my Aston Martin or my little Jeep. Even in a worst case scenario where both vehicles turned out to be miserably wretched hanger queens, I could at least sit in them and look pretty gosh darn dashing doing it.


Irish Waif ​

 

You have to notice this survey was from user reviews of past models.


The Jetta is a grand dad here, and didn't the Caliber come out a year or so before the roller skates listed?
It would seem the longer a car is around, the more bad reviews that would surface.

The Yaris and Fit are only a couple years old and have the fewest parts and options to break. I would hope they would have good user reviews.

 

I would concur on the VWs, they made the worst listing on small car and family car. I loved both of my Passats, but something would break every month it seemed. I noticed that the Jeep Wrangler and Dodge Nitro were listed in the worst category for small SUV as well.

I would like to know how the survey results were conducted. Generally speaking the nay-sayers are always going to be the ones that pipe up and complain about their "horrible" cars. The Fit and Yaris' target demographic, younger generation, may have something to do with the seemingly large number of good reviews as well. The assumption is they are more likely to respond to surveys and share their love of their vehicles.

All that aside, how much of the Caliber's assumed bad reliability is going to be transferred to our 2007 and 2008 Patriots?

 

PREDICTED reliability from PAST years...

What PAST are they talking about with the Yaris and Fit? They were new for '07 weren't they... so 1 model year is enough PAST to PREDICT the FUTURE?

Oh, wait I forgot. It is a CONSUMER REPORTS prediction...
The reliability is for the entire TOYOTA and HONDA brands, never mind if either of these two sardine cans are actually any good on their own.

 

I'm not sure I'd trust CR's "projected" reliability.

When I was looking at the Grand Cherokee, they said that the pre-06 models had pretty poor reliability and were not recommended. In 06, the vehicle received a redesign, and despite a generally above average reliability report, they still have it a poor projected reliability rating.

Mate that to the recent announcement that CR has been using the "halo effect" (not the video game here, but referring to perception) to rate reliability. They announced that due to reliability issues, they would no longer give Toyotas an automatic pass.

Quite honestly, I've NEVER been impressed with CR's automotive reports. They place a great weight on crash tests and overall perception of the brands than on anything else.

 

VW is very much like Jeep in customer appeal. That is, we all know there are brands which test better and can generate superior overall numbers. VW and Jeep (and Saab and BMW and Infiniti and Subaru and Jaguar) all appeal to buyers who weigh their buying decision less upon raw numbers and more towards some kind of "emotional fit."

The net result is an extremely loyal repeat client base, but very few "conquest" clients from other brands where true affection for the car is ignored in favor of fuel mileage and resale value.

Ask someone why they're considering buying a Jeep or Jaguar, when there are competing vehicles which clearly outperform them. You're likely to hear explanations which contain very little hard data.

A direct example: the Patriot, with FDII, CLEARLY outperforms it competitors offroad. However, MOST Patriots (mine included) are not FDII-equipped, and are just as loved by their owners. It's true, there's just something about a Jeep...

 

A direct example: the Patriot, with FDII, CLEARLY outperforms it competitors offroad. However, MOST Patriots (mine included) are not FDII-equipped, and are just as loved by their owners. It's true, there's just something about a Jeep...

Still, though, the Patriot in FWD or FDI trim is still competent (and FDI is arguably better then competing AWD systems in similar vehicles). While it is not a perfect vehicle (the competition has a better interior), it is plenty competitive in terms of efficiency, price, and road manners. As for reliability and longetivity, we'll see, but a lifetime powertrain warranty can sure put to rest the concerns of folks used to Hondas (me).

I understand and agree with your point that Jeep and VW are likely to have a more hardcore loyalist type of base. However, that sort of base will only keep you as a niche automaker, and you need to expand beyond that if you plan to truly be successful. Folks who insist that Jeep should have only the Wrangler, Wrangler Unlimited, and Grand Cherokee are trying to keep Jeep as a niche brand. It can appeal to more than that.

 

When we were looking at vehicles we narrowed it down to the RAV4 and the Jeep.Three things tipped it in the Jeeps favor.Price,warranty and well its a Jeep.

 

I don't believe CR read any of the User Reviews on MSN Auto.
I spent a little time checking different manufactures and vehicles and
The beloved Toyotas and Hondas have some pretty Devastating Reviews from owners. I own a Caliber 1.8 ltr 5 speed for over a year and other than a few flash updates no problems.

 

The AWD Calibers are having problems not the normal FWD versions. The FWD versions are actually above average according to CR.

 

I don't know about these reports.I spoke to couple of Caliber owners with 60k milegae and both seemed very happy with the car.

 

Check this article out.

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

 

That was a fun read. It is probably because of consumer reports that I am getting a Patriot. The vehicle I was originally looking at was a Honda Pilot. One of our friends had one and I thought that it was a pretty good vehicle. However, they are way out of my price range. The new ones are abhorrently expensive, but that is only the tip of the iceberg. Because of consumer reports and other Honda and Toyota gushing mags, people and dealers seem to think that a 3 year old vehicle with +45K miles should be only $2000 less than MSRP of a brand new one because of "resale value". A vehicle that has lived about a third of its good years (about 9-10 years from assembly to POS status for even well maintained vehicles) is just about "equivalent" to fresh off the line? As John Stossall would say, "Give me a break!".
Therefore, I am purchasing a "cheap", "worthless", "recall waiting to happen" Chrysler product. I will spend $19,000 instead of $29,000 for "lower resale value" (gonna drive it till its dead or we're out of dino juice anyway), "cheap plastic interior" (about the same as my 1999 Dakota so what), "Chrysler unreliability" (put 90,000 miles on my Dakota and only changed the water pump and serpentine belt other than fresh oil and tires, must have gotten extremely lucky!), better gas mileage (oh wait that is an unfair comparison, shame on me), locally produced (Belvidere, "Chicago", ain't far from Indy), lifetime powertrain warranty (I ain't gonna sell it so it is lifetime for me), and sure to dissapoint my coworker who is a diehard Honda/super Honda (Acura) fanantic despite the fact that his '02 Oddessy is on its third transmission.

 

-All- cars have become so dependable in the last 10 years that even the most un-reliable will go way past the warranty.

So CR is taking guesses here based on a few -NEW- models that haven't even been around long enough to prove anything!

If they had any merit, they would list the Components that will go bad and why.

 

Irish Waif: You are so right! I use the reviews as only one small aspect in researching a big ticket purchase. Lots of opinions that are published, say to internet posts, are often the ramblings of the fringe (those who have a hate on for something and those who have a love on for something). It takes a certain amount of talent to discern an honest, call it unbiased for lack of a better term, review from a pro or con rant. I am not saying there is bias per se in the CR article. I am with hunter44102 that at the end of the day, CR is guessing.

Patriots get bashed a lot. They are just one of the new kids on the block. Thes no-accounts will move onto something new to bash about soon enough.

My advice - ignore them. You be the judge.

I really appreciate the openness of the folks on this forum. Like most here, I too am biased toward the Patriot. But, I read with great attention to the ills that are reported. I see isolated issues and I see trends. I try and figure where I am in the whole mix.

Now, if I had a gazillion dollars, that Vanquish sure would look sweet by my Patriot.

 

My cousin had a Ferrari GTS. It got out of tune on a weekly basis. My other cousin had a Jag XJ. Finally had the engine pulled and replaced it with a Chevy V8. I'm sure the Aston Martin will be lots of fun to own also, if you have a mechanic on a retainer!

 

...or you could go with this lil' number..

I'll just stick with my Pat for now though. :smiley_thumbs_up:

The new Lamborghini~

 

CR had a policy of recommending all Toyotas. they recently stopped that practice due to the poor quality of the Solara and Tundra, they may still due that with Hondas. that may be why these new models are on here. Isn't it great how all new Toyotas are recommended by this “reputable” source but American automobiles need to earn their recommendation?