I'll leave it up the engineers, that's why they do what they do...if anyone hears of an official notice to Jeep dealers/owners in the U.S., please pass it on.

 

The engineers will do as the EPA and their management tell them to do. I work with engineers daily, very few know anything about real world mechanics.

 

The reason that Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler sent out that TSB for Europe is the increased speeds on the autobahn. As speed increases, so does the temperature of the engine thus breaking down the viscosity of the engine oil. So a thicker weight oil would be required to protect the engine at high speeds/temps.

 

I asked Jeep about using 5w 30 instead of 5w 20, specifically asking them if doing so would void the warranty. I wish I had their response in front of me so I could post it, but they basically said 5w 30 is the recommended oil for you vehicle (huh?) but then say that I should refer to the owner's manual to find the recommended oil, which says 5w 20!!!

So I'm back to square one.

I think I call instead of email and ask someone about it.

 

european models

perhaps,jeep wants european models to use a different kind of oil because
many of them are the CRD diesel vw engine (just a thought !)

erik

 

Mobile 1 5W-20 FTW!

 

Thats what the lifetime powertrain warranty is for. If the owners manual says 5w-20 thats what I'm going to use. If the engine blows up or whatever they can give me a new one. I did think it was kind of odd that the patriot uses 5w-20 when most vehicles today use 5w-30. In winter 5w-20 is fine but in summer though I would think you would want the 5w-30.

 

I bought my Patriot a couple months before they offered the lifetime powertrain warranty. I was later told I could buy the lifetime warranty for $900 - $1500 depending on deductible! This is the only dealer nearby, and since they have never fixed any of the complaints I have had with my '07 Patriot, I consider that a waste of money.

So I'm going to use the oil I think is going to protect my engine the best, not the oil that Jeep wants me to use so their fleet average MPG is high enough to avoid federal sanctions.

One more thing. Another writer claimed 5W20 flows better in winter than 5W30. It's my understanding that the multi-weight oil acts like single viscosity 5 weight in the winter, but in summer temperatures, protects like a 30 weight oil. So I don't think 5W20 was selected to protect the engine during the winter. It was selected to increase fuel efficiency.

 

it's on the cap

if you open the hood and look at the oil fill cap it has 5w 20 stamped on the cap!!!!

 

I am in teh same boat as metalhead. If the factory says 5w-20 thats what i am using. If it burns up the motor, i will get a new one under warranty. I use 10w-30 in my wrangler, anything less just looks like tainted water to me.

 

Just got oil change today

asked the dealer about the oil
all they stated is until they have instructions to do otherwise they have to use what is listed and for the pat thats 5w20,
also this dealer is now charging $50 for oil changes using the 5w20,
other oil they are just charging the $30,
first time i have come across that in 15K miles,
wondering if others are seeing higher prices for oil changes using 5w20

 

asked the dealer about the oil
all they stated is until they have instructions to do otherwise they have to use what is listed and for the pat thats 5w20,
also this dealer is now charging $50 for oil changes using the 5w20,
other oil they are just charging the $30,
first time i have come across that in 15K miles,
wondering if others are seeing higher prices for oil changes using 5w20

Not meaning to brag here by any means, but my dealer changes my oil and rotates my tires for free for the life of the warranty and lease period which is 4 years in my case. Only Jeep is handling my oil changes; so I do not know if they are sticking with 5w20 on my Pat or not. If my engine cooks and fries, they will not be able to deny me a warranty replacement.

The $50 versus $30 price tag sounds like good old gouging in my books.

 

Use synthetic

There are other reasons to spec a lighter oil. Engines today are designed with much tighter tolerances. You almost have to use a thinner oil to get the penetration into the areas that need lubrication. I would say that if you have questions about the thermal stability in extreme conditions, use a synthetic or at least semi-synthetic oil. They are more stable across a greater band of temperatures.

I personally use full synthetic in the winter and then switch to a semi-synthetic in the summer. I checked with my dealer and he said it will not void the warranty, but be a little careful using synthetics. Using synthetic 80W-90 gear lube in the gear box will void your warranty. the manual specifically states to use non-synthetic in the gear boxes.

 

5w20 vs 5w30 - Facts

This debate has been around for a while. When I first purchased my Patriot this bothered me too. I had to do a fair amount of investigation to get the facts:

• Using 5w-30 will not void your warranty - This is direct from Chrysler and is supported legally as it will not harm your engine
  
• 5w-30 will offer slightly better protection against engine wear
  
• 5w-20 will offer slightly better fuel economy in the short term
  
• Implementation of 5w-20 in North America is driven on fuel economy and emission reduction (not related to smaller engine tolerences)
  
• Countries outside North America do not recommend and in some cases do not allow the sale of 5w-20
  
• The use of 5w-30 in Europe is not related to the CRD model per se (5w-30 is recommended for the gas model too)
  
• The use of 5w-30 in Europe is not related to speed or climate
  

I have gathered supporting information so send me a PM if you are interested (far too much to post here). I did attach two documents which speak volumes:

TSB

US EPA


.

 

5w-30 will offer slightly better protection against engine wear

The use of 5w-30 in Europe is not related to speed or climate

.

Those two points actually contradict each other... 5W30 offers more protection because it does not break down at higher operating temperatures. Therefore it is related to the higher temps endured on the autobahn due to constant higher speeds.

but anyway...

 

A synthetic oil no matter what viscosity it is will protect the engine better and can handle higher engine temperatures than a non synthetic oil. The 5w-20 oil is good in winter because being thinner it will lubricate parts better at colder temperatures since oil thickens when cold. A thicker oil will lubricate parts better in summer heat. A quality synthetic oil can handle both extremes in temperature. At my first oil change I plan on going with mobil 1 full synthetic oil 5w-20.

 

You know, I have an 08 and I checked the entire manual and there was no insert or anything else for that matter other than the book. There is a third book for updates and corrections, but nothing in there about oil. The 08 manual still says 5w-20.

By the way, engineers will not spec oil to improve CAFE mileage or EPA emissions performance. I personally can't even begin to think how a change in viscosity would even begin to improve those numbers unless you went to the extremes. I still say that the oil type is spec'd by the engineer factors of the design. Oil needs to flow freely through the engine or more specifically the oil ports in the block and head. It needs to be thick enough that the pump can pump it up to the head. It needs to be thin enough to penetrate the bearings, guides and bushings effectively, provide ample "splash" during operation of the crank to lube the cylinder walls, yet thick enough to be an effective lubricant for those parts and not leak through seals.

 

MrSensible, unfortunately further digging apart from the manual is needed.

5w-20 was specified to improve CAFE numbers and EPA emissions performance (see link below):

EPA Letter

The change is 'extremely' small, however across thousands of automobiles the EPA is allowing North American automakers to improve their CAFE numbers if they specificy 5w-20 and nothing else.

Thankfully the European car makers will not have any of it and simply specify the oil that best protects the vehicle.

 

If they didn't do it just for CAFE, then they would have switched to 5w20 in Europe, which they didn't.

ALSO, the Honda Accord is 5w20 ONLY IN THE USA. So this should tell you it was all about Politics.

Many cars changed to 5w20 -in the same engines that ran 5w30- the year before.

I think that there is a trade-off between protection and mileage, but its probably not very big. These engines aren't used for racing, so they should last long either way.

 

When I picked up my Jeep, I was told to use 5W-20 in it. This was January 3rd, 2008.

 

Maybe you could add 2 quarts of 5w-20 and then add 2 quarts of 5w-30 and get an oil mixture of intermediate qualities. But I don't know if this would work or if there is some good reason not to do it?

 

Isn't government supposed to act in our best interests.:doh:

I think I'll be using 5w30.

 

I swiched to 5w30 at my first oil change & am averaging 24.5 mpg. That's fine with me & I like the idea of better engine protection. I plan to keep my pat for a long time.

 

I think you are making a wise move..

As one of the earliest buyers of a Patriot, I missed out on the "lifetime powertrain warranty" by only a couple months. I was really steamed. They later offered it to me for $1500. What a laugh....

I don't think Jeep's motivation in pushing 5W20 in the US had anything to do with good engineering practices. I think it was to eke out a tiny bit more MPG, raising their "fleet average" and thus avoiding EPA fines. They don't care about people like me who don't have the benefit of the lifetime warranty.

 

I had my first oil change done just last week at 6k kms. Went to a Chrysler/Jeep dealer to do it, to make sure my warranty is not threatened in any way (cost 65 Euro/90USD :wow. I asked what kind of oil they use and they said - the type prescribed for your vehicle and supplied to us by Chrysler - Mopar 5W20!!! This oil is also clearly stated on the invoice. So it aparently isn`t true that european dealers have instructions to use 5W30. They didn`t even know if it`s synthetic or not! I was surprised, because I usualy used Castrol 5W40 in my other cars. And today I stumble across this thread and am really frustrated as to which type of oil is correct for the Pat and serves the engine best . Is it such a big deal to get a straight answer from Chrysler on this issue?

I would appreciate all european Pats reading this to inform here regarding what type of oil their dealerships/services use (not the oil owners use by their choice). If it shows up that the oil type isn`t the same at all Chryslers around Europe (Mopar 5W20), I`m writing an inquiry about this to Chrysler HQ

Also I found something on this subject on the Net - undoubtedly a marketing inspired move by Amsoil, but informative non the less.

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/articles/5w20oil.htm

 

If this TSB is real ??Then it must be just a Euro thing not UK. My 2 litre gas Caliber always used 5W-20 as supplied by dealer.I still have my old Caliber Hand/Service book( I had 2 for some reason , the other one went with the Cali. when I swapped it) No Addendum in It & clearly states 5W-20 oil to be used. In fact these oils are so similar , its hardly worth worrying about!!!!

 

No doubt it is real. Can you now purchase 5w-20 in stores in Europe? Last year when I was there you could not find it and only 5w-30 could be found. No wonder Chrysler went bankrupt playing games like this.

TSB 26-001-07 5w-30

Here are some other links previously posted:

Chrysler Letter 5w-30

US EPA and CAFE

 

Tippy, you don`t consider UK to be a part of Europe?

 

Yep Part of Europe!!--However being an offshore Island we always seem a little Isolated over here!!

I am a Stong believer in the " Common Market" for commerce , trade & industry--But the quicker we can get out of the " European Union" the better.

I think the British are now a bit fed up uncontrolled cross border Immigration & having 70% of our Laws , which affect our every day lives , being decided by faceless beaurocrats hundreds of miles away in Brussels. People who have very little understanding Or knowledge of the British way of life & what is best for them.

Bring on the refferendum so we can vote on getting out--Nobody ever asked us if we wanted to go in--!!!!!

 

Well, it`s all about democracy ... I hope ... do you have a political party that`s against the EU beaurocratism? Next time vote them! The Czech Rep. is the only EU country beside Ireland kicking against the Brussels dominance, but it`s too small and insignificant to change things ... :doh:

 

I believe that at higher speed, the engine oil will spend less time in the crankcase (oil pan) where it cools, so it will run hotter. This is why race cars have oil coolers. Tow vehicles work harder and run hotter and also need oil coolers. Too much heat is bad for engines (and oil). I run 5w30 in the Summer because if I'm doing 75mph on the freeway with the AC on and a load of people and gear, that engine can use whatever break it gets.

 

Sounds like a full synthetic 5w20 would provide more insurance than conventional 5w30.

 

I searched around to find out that none of the leading oil manuf. (Shell, Mobil, Castrol, etc.) DO NOT offer any 5W20 oils in this country. You can get it ONLY from the local MOPAR parts/oil supplier for 13$ per litre :doh:

 

Glad you confirmed this. I did not see 5w-20 in Germany either.

I believe the focus for European and Asian automakers is to build more fuel efficent engines rather than fool around with thinner oils. Use a synthetic 5w-30 next time you change your oil and you will have nothing to worry about.