This is a huge issue on the Wrangler forums. I have been lurking a bit over there. Read this:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/the-importance-of-changing-out-stock-bolts-128154.html

and this:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/di...m/f33/diagnosing-death-wobble-and-fixing-non-dw-shimmies-and-wobbles-78034.html

I am shocked by these reports from owners. For those that may not want to read through the details-

Supposedly the Wranglers have several bolts holding the suspension together that are actually the WRONG size! Someone posted a video on the forum showing the amount of play due to the bolt,. It is also apparent that the longer you go without swapping the bolts for a proper fit and bolt type, the wear on the inner threads are further damaged and can cause this to worsen

I have noted that many of those that have experienced the DW have had a lift, but not all of them. I think Wranglers have THE BEST aftermarket support of any vehicle produced, I cannot imagine blaming this on aftermarket suppliers is fair. If this was very isolated, then yes, saying improperly maintained after market suspension parts play a role is fine. But not all these owners are negligent in their vehicle care.

I am sure some of the older members remember the times when solid axle vehicles would skip and skid a bit on hard turns, Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But its a non issue with modern vehicles. Perhaps the Wranglers design with a high center of gravity and short wheelbase plays a role as well. But if you read the posts about the non-shouldered incorrectly sized bolts, your head may explode!

I am no engineer, I do not have a great grasp on design and hardware, but the way they explained this on wrangler-forum is pretty easy to understand-

Jeep used the wrong bolts and they used the wrong type of bolt. INSANE!

 

 

I read at Jalopnik every day and they have also been running reports of Wranglers bursting into flames.

Imagine a Death Wobble with Fire!

You gotta be tough to drive a Jeep, eh?

 

If you look up wrangler recalls, you will see that they had a 300,000 vehicle recall for potential fire issues!

 

Grand cherokee owners get it too although I've never had that problem on mine. I did however get it on my TJ, I fixed it and it has ran great since. The media tends to exaggerate abit and I hate how they made it seem like it was only jeeps that get it but I have seen fords, chevy's, dodge's, all kinds of solid axle vehicles get it.

 

It has nothing to do with the straight axle unless the castor is off. Tow in effects this condition as well, but that would be common to either axle or IFS. Mor likely in a desperate attempt to meet crazy emission requirements, the Wrangler, like the Patriot, is designed with parts too light for the vehicle to be tough and durable like a Jeep should be. Chrysler/Fiat is watering down the guts of Jeeps and now they have cars, that look like Jeeps and Jeeps that look like cars. Basically there are no longer any Jeeps. Just plastic letters pasted on boxy cars with a 7 slot grill.

 

wow...that is strong commentary. probably very accurate, but strong ;>

 

I'm unfortunately a victim of this with my 2010 JKU, hence my newfound pleasure in lurking this website. Ive dealt with it before and after the lift. Neither Jeep nor the lift manufacturer were very helpful in resolving the issue. The bolt aisle at home depot did help a bit though. Finally threw in the towel when I spun a bearing at 19,000 miles. Look up that issue on jeep forums too. Ive found I'm not the only one. I've owned a CJ, YJ, TJ, and JK. First wrangler I have ever experienced so many problems with, as I am anal about preventative maintenance. Shame there seems to be so much difference in build quality now, but I am still a die-hard Jeep fan. I have faith that they will eventually sort this all out.
Also first post

 

That does suck..... Are you thinking of converting to Patriot?

 

If the factory installed these bolts--the ones with threads all the way to the bolt head--that's just wrong! Threading the bolt does reduce it's diameter a bit. The fully threaded bolt is NOT good engineering or manufacturing practice for this application!

 

X2!!! A threaded surface should never be the "working" surface of a bolt. Threads should end very close to the point where the nut gets tight.

 

I love green, but the rescue green need not be rescued

 

Back to the wobble issue. IMHO, the issue is the tires. Wifey's 04 Wrangler had that problem exactly as described in the video -- go over a pothole or RR tracks, even at low speeds (35-40 mph) and the front end would start to shake uncontrollably. After several unsuccessful attempts at balancing, the tires were replaced and the "wobble" never happened again.

At about the same time I had the same make/model tires on my Pontiac Grand Prix and had a similar problem, but more predictably at speeds between 55-70 mph, and not as bad as the Wrangler. Basically it was a nuisance at highway speeds. Again, the tires balanced out 'perfect' but the problem persisted until the tires were replaced. After replacing the tires neither vehicle had the problem again.

Somewhere on this website, maybe a year ago, I had discussion with another Patriot owner who had a similar problem; I looked around just now but couldn't find our conversation.

 

I came accross this on the local jeep club forum, guys who almost all drive wranglers or cherokees.....This has made me think twice about a wrangler in the future, although I would do a lot more research before making any decision.....I have had death wobbles on skateboards and motorbikes before and it was freaky.....I can only imagine with the whole front end of a jeep shaking!

 

This has made me think twice about a wrangler in the future, although I would do a lot more research before making any decision.....I have had death wobbles on skateboards and motorbikes before and it was freaky.....I can only imagine with the whole front end of a jeep shaking!

Don't panic! Don't pass up a perfectly good vehicle over this.
1) It can and does happen on other vehicles. (see above)
2) It only happened to our Wrangler with one particular set of tires -- not the factory tires, nor any other replacements we had on it. Maybe this is one reason the manufacturers are so insistent on correct tire sizes from particular manufacturers. (The troublesome tires that caused the wobble were off-brand)
3) It had been so long since the wobble that I'd forgotten about it until I read this thread.
4) We bought a 2011 Wrangler to replace the 2004 and it does not have any wobble.

Remember all those folks who were terrified of Toyota only a year ago? Turns out there was a lot more hype (and chicanery) than actual problems.

 

I had the "Death Wobble" on an F-150 I had. 4" lift and 33" tires. It would start to shake at 35 then again at 70. I would blast through 35, and not go 70. In the summer, when the tires were hot, it would start at 45 and continue up to 55. At times it was VIOLENT! It shook so hard once that it broke off a coil lead and stalled. In a construction zone on the freeway, with no shoulder, at rush hour. The Motorist Assist truck pushed me about a mile out of the zone and I fixed the wire alongside the road. Caused an epic traffic jam. I tried numerous fixes over the 3 yrs I had that beast. New rotors. New wheel bearings. Rotated and balanced the tires numerous times. Steering stabilizer. Tightened every bolt in the suspension. Finally fixed the problem by trading it in for my first Patriot in 2009 under Cash for Clunkers. Made a tidy profit on the deal, too...

 

Many solid axle 4x4 trucks can also experience this. I'd say it's a combination of worn/fatigued suspension mountings and improper alignment angles that amplify the problem.

Dodge Ram:

Ford F-250:

Mid 80's Chevy:

 

Fully articulate rotor systems in helicopters do something similar if you bump them wrong when landing. It's called ground resonance, and it truly is a death wobble! Not too off topic is it?

 

I think the real point is that Jeeps used to be over built. U bolts holding on the axles were 9/16 rather than half inch, Pickups were 5/8 ton and 7/8 ton rather than 1/2 and 3/4 like most brands, and so on right down the line. Maybe it just isn't possible to build a good Jeep without running you company out of money. The sales numbers of "real" Jeeps will never support modern costs associated with design and development of a vehicles. People claim they want a tough brute of a vehicle, but then they complain about the poor handling and rough ride. I'm sure this issue is a conflict between trying to make the Wrangler soft enough for the masses but still tough enough to just barely call it a Jeep and not have to hide your face.

 

Keep in mind the earlier Jeeps also had front leaf springs which may be better at mitigating death wobble type forces (but not impervious as seen in the mid-80's Chevy pick-up video...though he had huge tires).

 

Everything used to be overbuilt, now a computer tells you if something is overbuilt and then you get pressured to change it.
Overbuilt = more weight, lower mileage, government definitely doesn't like that.
Overbuilt = more material costs, beancounters dont like that, and many customers have a hard time looking past that point initially.
Overbuilt = more emissions, another government agency really hates that.

So you end up with the gradual cheapening of all automotive products, and its 2/3rd's the government's fault.

 

The test for Jeeps should be to put the new Jeep Wrangler and a Willys CJ2A on a course and make sure the new Wrangler can do everything the CJ2 can. It can do more things, but it must do the CJ2A basics.

 

closest I could find

I've had the pleasure of owning a stock M38 and two TJs. I have a friend with a stock CJ-7 and another with a modified JK. There is nothing the M38 can do that the TJ can't do better. The only exception might be if you get into a very VERY tight spot. The one time I convinced the guy with the CJ-7 to go wheeling with me he kept up with no trouble other than limited suspension articulation up until a puddle that we splashed through. No trouble for the TJ. The CJ died and needed to be nursed back to life. The TJ is just more water proof under the hood. The JK is lifted and is a 4 door so his long wheel base is a big change compared to my TJ. It seems most trails around here are traveled mostly by TJs so the holes are dug at exactly my wheelbase length. However every now and then he has more trouble than I do. I have no reason to believe that a 2 door JK Rubicon is not just as good if not better than a TJ Rubicon in every measurable way, unless again you get into a tight squeeze. The JK has more suspension articulation, more power, larger tires, stronger axles while maintaining the same gearing and lockers. If a TJ is better than a M38 and a CJ-7, and a JK has more of everything a TJ has, it stands to follow that a JK is better than a M38 and a CJ-7. Again the only place this might not be true is in very tight squeezes.

 

My M38 won't/can't turn as short as the Patriot...don't know how that compares with newer CJ's...

 

Yeah the old things can't turn as tight. When I was saying tight spots I was thinking the overall tiny size of a classic Jeep, and even then primarily the width. This is from memory so don't hold my feet to the fire on it, but a M38 is 138 inches long, and 60 inches wide. A TJ is 155 inches long and 66 inches wide. A 2 door JK is actually shorter in length by just an inch or two, but it's like 74 inches wide.

 

Love the '45!

 

And Im damn glad for that extra 14 in of width, too. I bet 8 inches of that are the fender flares. I have to move my knee to roll the window down as it is...