I'm a little off-topic, but I watched a canadian TV show earlier this year who do an extreme face-to-face between the 2013 SVT Raptor and the 2013 Wrangler Rubicon and even if the Raptor weight 2X the Wrangler and are also 2X longer and wider (Raptor was the 4-door pickup), the Raptor win the competition in every way! Rock climbing, hill climbing, water crossing, deep mug, etc.

I must say the Raptor is definitely the ULTIMATE off-roading machine!!

Only bad point is the 6.2L V8 engine is a real gas guzzler!!!!!! :doh:

 

I must say the Raptor is definitely the ULTIMATE off-roading machine

no love for mopar?:

http://youtu.be/zDDYuOb2pbg
http://youtu.be/NTOR-qcN60w
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/1...009/10/part-1-whats-the-diff-ford-f150-svt-raptor-vs-dodge-ram-power-wagon.html


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the patriots approach is very good

 

Also the Raptor is at least twice the price of the Rubicon so I would hope there would be some benefits to spending that much money.

 

There is a company that will convert your wrangler into a 4 door pickup truck and I believe the total (price of jeep + price of modification) is $90 000. I think those guys put the hemi in the Jeep also. That would be an interesting match up. Sort of evening the playing field.

Also the Patriot does have a good approach angle and it gets better with a lift and bigger tires.

 

The Raptor sits much higher than the Patriot, and I'm honestly surprised it's approach angle is ONLY 30°. The Patriot's 29° is actually quite commendable, considering the engine is hanging out in front of the axle.

 

That's an angle, if doesn't tell you much beyond that, height of the vehicle, size of tire, articulation, etc. But for a crossover yes the patriot is pretty good. It has a very short nose.

 

My poor thread has been blown far off course...

 

The patriot has a pretty decent approach angle. It's falls short though in break over angle. And that is because of it's combination of lowerish (still good for it's class) ground clearance and wheel base. If it were possible to raise the Patriot enough to put some real off road tires on it, it would be better than the Raptor because it would now have more ground clearance and a shorter wheel base.
The Patriot is great when compared to other vehicles in it's class. But comparing it to fullsize, frame based, trucks with transfer cases is like comparing the ride between a 71 super beetle and a brand new caddy.
Compare numbers between the Patriot, Grand Vitara, Forrester, and Outlander. Only the Grand Vitara comes anywhere even close and they aren't sold new in the US any more.

Thread blown back on course

And Jdog, I have a Ford F150 supercab long bed that does awesome off road. I think it is all due to it's length. When one axle is losing traction the other axle is far enough away to be on a completely different surface. It's like turning a cruise ship in a parking lot though...

 

STORY...I was gone a week last Winter and I had to kill a two foot crust from a bad storm. I stared at it and I said GFI and I did. I hit it and backed up and I hit it again and it cleared. And I parked it and went to bed.