Driving Manual

I like to put my Pat in neutral and use the break to come to a stop at lights and stop signs. I bought the Pat because of its fuel efficiency. I don't need to burn off at stop lights anymore. I'm through those days, I need space and good gas mileage. Made in the USA is awesome too. I don't ever downshift and let the engine slow me down.

 

Engine braking (being in 1st gear in low range, using the engine's RMPs to control your slow decent down a steep hill) will save your brakes and make for a safer crawl down the hill.

After you've driven with a stick (manual) long enough, it gets to the point that you don't even look at the RMPs to know when to shift. It is the sound of the engine and the feeling of where you are in the power band.

If I need to pass, I will 95% of the time, down-shift to the next lower gear (provided it doesn't peg the RMPs).

It is illegal in some States, so check before you try this... for economy sake, I have (where legal to do so of course) shifted into neutral on the down slope of a long hill and let the engine rest while the RMPs drop to an idle. One a 20 mile down hill ride it could boast your gas savings.

Driving for power vs. economy depends on when I am driving. Sometimes you need to get up to speed quickly; other times, you need to pull every mile out of each drop.

 

I've been doing it for so long I don't even think about it any more. I was driving farm equipment at age 8 and my dad taught me to drive a street vehicle when I was twelve. Not that many years ago I was basically licensed to drive anything on wheels with ABCDM, DOT, school bus and endorsements of air brake, tanker and passenger.

I just follow a few rules out of habit.

1. I deccelorate by clutching and coasting where possible.
2. I downshift through the gears matching shift points as I deccelorate, but I don't engine brake in light vehicles.
3. I don't shift at RPM marks. I mostly shift by ear and speed depending on load and how hard I need to accelorate. Besides, most of vehicles and trucks I've driven didn't even have Tachs. General rule of thumb 1->2 at about 10-15mph, 2->3 around 25, 3->4 around 35 and in the Patriot 4->5 around 45. I'll stretch those if I need more power.
4. I never "jam" gears. When the clutch goes in, pull out of your gear, center over the new gear and apply light pressure to the stick. If you did it right you should feel the the transmission "suck" the shifter into the higher gear.

My dad always said shifting was like dancing a waltz. It should always be done on a 3 count. 1, clutch goes to the floor. 2, out of gear and center on next gear. 3, in the gear it goes.

Big trucks are a little bit different, but I could write a book about that.

I have to be doing something right. Over all the years I have had many vehicles and NEVER had to replace a clutch.

 

I coast as much as I can. There are many more slight declines than you realize if you are not thinking about it.

I like to shift to neutral and coast to a stop. I don't use the engine to slow down except in off road type driving or on really steep hills where I don't want to ride the brakes due to excessive heating.

One thing I have noticed about the Patriot that I miss, is the clutch-less up shift. On my older cars there is a place where the gears naturally synchronize and the lever just moves easily and without grinding from one gear to the next without the clutch. Also when coasting and slowing down, this would be true going into lower gears as well when engine idle speed matches slow rolling speed.

The Patriot seems to have a "guard" that won't let the shifter move into or out of a gear unless the clutch is depressed.

 

I don't think there is a right way to drive a manual trans, but there is definately a wrong way!! If you hear grinding between shifts, that's bad.
A basic rule of thumb is that the clutch should either be all the way up or all the way down. The less you have it in that half way point the better. It's not a good idea to 'balance' yourself on a hill at a stop light using the clutch. If it's really steep and you don't want to roll back into the car behind you, use the e-brake, then give it some gas till you feel the car starting to move forward, then release the e-brake.

 

.... always avoid keeping the clutch down when in gear (aka riding the clutch). As a general rule only keep the clutch depressed when changing gears. That being said either shifting into neutral then braking or gearing down/engine braking is totally up to your style.

For me, I've always geared down/engine brake. As well, for all my cars I've always been able to up shift without the clutch. It takes time to learn and the shift points are different with each car, I don't suggest up shifting without the clutch if you don't know what you are doing. Many of us who can do this know that it takes many years of driving manual transmissions to find the sweet spot. I will say that this method may save your clutch but if done incorrectly you may kill your synchros or just the entire transmission! lol

 

Hey jeelo, it's no problem to keep the clutch pedal all the way down while in gear. The flywheel is completely disengaged. It's only 'riding the clutch' if you have the clutch pedal partially disengaged.

 

I only really drive stick in performance situations... and as i used to autocross a lot, i have developed two driving styles.

When just driving...i tend to take the trannyout of gear and let off the clutch when simply coming to a red light.

However, spending alot of time driving sport compacts on autocrass courses, i have gotten pretty good and heel-toe technique when cornering while i am driving like a maniac.

 

Sleemans got it right. Clutch either all the way in or all the way out. "Riding the clutch" usually means revving the engine higher and then using the clutch to modulate the power. I see it at the boat launch all the time. They get nervous about the roll back, gun the engine and then let the clutch only partially so they don't snub it. burn all the way up. Some are so bad you can smell the pads burning.

I wouldn't be too eager to engine brake in a passenger car. That can put a lot of stress on the throw-out and I really don't think they are built to take it. In a tractor rig, the clutches are massive and are designed specifically to take the strain. Engine breaking also puts a lot of stress on things like universal joints, alignment parts (FWD) and the transmission. Last time I checked, a brake job can be had for under $500. I think a clutch is more like $2000 and even universals are well over $1000.

 

$2000 for a clutch? you buy your stuff from Rousch racing????

 

Don't forget the labor and I'm also assuming you would have it done at a Jeep dealer which is always more expensive than an independent. FWD in the patriot so odds are the whole engine/transaxle would have to be pulled, or at least removed from the mounts and suspended in order to do a proper job. It's not like the old days where you could disconnect the drive shaft, support the transmission on jack stand, loosen the mounts and just slide'er back.

Also if you are going to go through the trouble of cracking the two you may as well replace the bearings and seals.

Yeah, it's a rough estimate, but I bet it's close.

 

I am always trying to drive for mileage, so I am in the habit of putting the transmission into neutral whenever possible and coasting.

 

I've always down shifted while coming to a stop so that if I need to get going again (emergency swerves or what have you), I'm in a suitable gear to get back up to speed.

Also when going down hills, I definitely leave the clutch out and car in gear. The car needs to use gas in order to idle, but if the RPMs keep coming down when coasting, I'd think I'd be using less gas since my inertia is keeping the engine spinning rather than gas.

just my 2 cents.

 

When I stop then I always shift to the 1st, thats because I want to start excat right time when green is on. And I think everybody must do that- what a time and traffic saving it would be!

Then- when driving downhill- always use gear. Thats saves gas! Tests says so!

 

I'll start with a few comments, then my style.

Everyone should at least udnerstand How Clutches Work.

When the clutch is pressed, the throw-out bearing is wearing. when the clutch is neather al lthe way in or out, the pressure plate and flywheel are wearing.

The engine probably uses more fuel maintaining idle than under engine braking when the fuel is often shut off.

Brakes are significantly cheaper than transmissions/clutches to replace.

Now for my own driving. The only time I look at the tachometer is near idle and near redline. All other times I drive by feel. When I am trying to minimize fuel usage, I shift to 3 @ 20mph, 4th @ 30, and 5th @ 40mph.

I skip gears very often. Every vehicle has a different powerband. Most cars from a start I like to shift 1-2-5. In the Compass, 2nd is so short, so I usually 1-2-3-5. 3rd gear has always been my favorite for every vehicle. The range of ~25 to ~80mph covers so much of my accel/decel range, so that's what I downshift to. Slower than 20mph, I just brake in neutral if I think I'll have to stop. About half the time I downshift/rev match when coming to a stop or slowing down. More often when I am slowing down and don't think I'll have to stop. I always try to predict what gear I'll need to accelerate in if I don't have to stop and downshift to it for engine braking.

All stopped time, I idle with the clutch out in neutral with brake applied[/url]. The brake very important to me for a couple reasons. first, it lets the driver behind my know I'm stopped, and not accelerating as most of the US is automatic. Second, if someone happens to rear-end me, I minimize how far forward I roll/slide into either the car in front of me, or cross traffic. If I'm not the first 2 cars in line, I wait until the green light before grabbing first gear. Otherwise, I try to look @ the other lights to tell when mine will turn green so I'm in first when it changes. When I drive automatics, I hate when I have to wait an extra 3-4 seconds behind someone "not paying attention" in their manual trans car .

One vehicle I had I often shifted w/o the clutch after 2nd gear. 2-3-4-5-4-3 was no problem. I've only tried it once in my Compass, a 3-4 shift, and there was no issue. I figure I need more time getting to know this one as the shifter doesn't feel as connected as soem of my previous vehicls. Generally, FWD is worse than RWD for feel..

Hmm, that's enough comments for now.

 

Interesting story:

Some on-coming cars were doing left turns in front of me before I got to the intersection. An additional car tried to do the left in front of me before I got there, but the cars had piled up waiting to finish the turn into the shopping mall, so this last car got stuck trying to make a turn right in front of me, with me coming at them at 40 MPH and the right of way.

I was in the Mustang 5.0, and came to a quick stop to keep from nailing the car which had just stopped right in front of me.

Now there were squealing sounds behind me. Someone behind me didn't expect me to come to a complete stop, since we still had the green light. So this car is skidding and about to hit me from behind.

While the car behind me was skidding towards me, the one in front of me got enough room to get out of my way. I forget whether I had it in first already, or whether I had to get it into gear, but I did a perfect launch from a full stop, and floored it in first while the car behind me was still skidding to slow down to keep from hitting me in the back.

I think our bumpers got within a foot of each other, but we made it!

So the moral of the story is: When crazy stuff is happening, get it into gear!

Now, I do not always get a perfect launch even when I try, and even after owning this car for almost 22 years now. The fact that it was a perfect launch that one time under pressure of a near collision is rather amazing.

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I used to down-shift 5-4-3-2 until a stop. I kept wearing out third gear synchronizer ( on this car 1 and 2 have double syncros but not third ). So now I downshift 5-4 and keep 4 until almost at a stop. It keeps the engine from stalling, which keeps the power steering and power brakes powered up.

So pardon the Mustang stuff, but it's still on topic. We may get a Patriot some day, though. We'll see what the 09 models have.

 

Living in Canada I was taught to always gear down when braking for 2 reasons, one it saves your brakes and two it's a lot easier to slow down on ice and snow then using your brakes.

Last week we had freezing rain in Saskatoon and I did not have slide once while this lady whom I was following on my way to work was all over the road at stop signs and sharp corners.

I guess when you have to deal with this kind of weather 6 months of the year it just becomes second nature.

 

Ziggy, it's is funny that the owner's manual says to downshift to saave your brakes too. Honestly, clutch = $500-1000 and trans = $2500. Brake pads $20-50. Is donshifting really worth the cost to replace a clutch/trans to "save the brakes" or prolong brake life.

Also, ABS systems are way better/safter than using the engien compression to slow down.

 

Ziggy, it's is funny that the owner's manual says to downshift to saave your brakes too. Honestly, clutch = $500-1000 and trans = $2500. Brake pads $20-50. Is donshifting really worth the cost to replace a clutch/trans to "save the brakes" or prolong brake life.

You save the brakes in order not to "cook" them: if you tax your brakes, you could find yourself unable to come to a quick stop.

In long descents use engine brake first :nerd:

 

How do "you" drive a manual transmission?


like I stole it...

 

Some interesting viewpoints here, so my tenpen'th may not be worthy but as a former sales rep in England, driving diesel manual cars for around 40k per year and where fuel is around $9/gal, miserly consumption for most drivers is paramount. Oddly, automatics get less mpg than manuals but here in the States, I notice the reverse is true with petrol/gas vehicles.

Anyway, manual gear-box diesel-cars have to be the next best thing to automatics because the engine spins so slowly but the torque is phenomenal. As a result, a Peugeot 405 Estate or Toyota Avensis for instance, could easily pull away in second or third (after a few hundred miles on the clock) but most of the time it was 1st, 2nd, 3rd and often I'd shift directly in 5th (Motorway/Highway) and set the cruise-control at around 55mph on the level roads and knock it into neutral for coasting down hills. Both vehicles regularly returned 60mpg!

Of course, the figures dropped significantly when driving my diesel 3l Range Rover automatic, it being a much heavier car and I rarely got more than 21mpg from it whatever style I used. Conversely, my manual 1992 Land Rover Defender 2.5Tdi which has the aerodynamics of a house brick, could achieve a very creditable 40mpg by driving no more than 50mph and carefully maintaining the accelerator pedal at a constant position on level roads.

 

Welcome PapaTango! Please introduce yourself on the newbie forum.

I see you've unearthed a real antique thread there. Most recent post was almost 9 years old! Definitely has dust on it.

How I drive a manual? Well, it depends on the gear-box and the terrain. A truck: 2,3,4,5. Our Wrangler, 2,4,6 or 1,3,5 depending if I'm on the level or not. Wifey's Patriot usually 2,3,4,5 unless on an upgrade when 1st is kinda necessary. I don't use 5th unless I'm going over 40, cuz don't want to risk lugging it.

I'm wondering where you got the idea that US automatics deliver better economy than manuals? Never that way in my experience. Just today Wifey's Patriot (2.0/5-spd) delivered 32mpg and mine (2.4/CVT delivered 27.5mpg). Since my 2.4 is 20% larger I'd expect to get 20% lower economy. Hers was more mixed driving, mine all highway driving at 55ish mph. This is about as close to equal as I've ever seen. Been fairly cold here, and very windy, but really the vehicles are on pretty equal footing. Normal fuel economy is 1-2 mpg better for either vehicle.

Agreed, all else being equal, diesels will get better fuel economy than gasoline engines. In US diesel is proportionally more expensive so I doubt there would be much savings.