today I stopped at a chrysler dealer and in the doorway I met a mechanic so I asked him about his opinion on the first oil change at 1000km.He just smiled and said to me that it's wasted money.All the engines before they are installed in the vehicles get lots of exercise and one should just follow the manufacturers manual to be on the safe side
Belveder
Time to go to another dealership and talk to another mechanic! :wow:
Ok, so they "exercise them" (Not exactly sure what that means?) - If they crank it over to check to make sure it works, drive it onto the lot and onto the carriers, off the carrier onto the dealer's lot, that means little metal chips and fillings do wear and move around. However, do they change the oil and filter before selling them? NOT!
First oil change is important. Oil and filter are cheap! About $8-10 for 5 quarts of oil and another $4-$5 for a filter and 1/2 hour of your time in the driveway for a do it yourselfer!
Ok, so they "exercise them" (Not exactly sure what that means?) - If they crank it over to check to make sure it works, drive it onto the lot and onto the carriers, off the carrier onto the dealer's lot, that means little metal chips and fillings do wear and move around. However, do they change the oil and filter before selling them? NOT!
First oil change is important. Oil and filter are cheap! About $8-10 for 5 quarts of oil and another $4-$5 for a filter and 1/2 hour of your time in the driveway for a do it yourselfer!
I can only assume that a significant amount of research has gone into this by engineers around the world to determine what needs to be done for a new engine.
I know that the owner's manual states moderate varying engine speed for first few hundred miles, then go to either Schedule A or B, which is either 3000 or 6000 miles for first indicated oil change. The Corporation, who is actually liable if something breaks while under warranty does not recommend changing oil or the filter until 3000 miles!
Whereas, early oil changes are something we are all somehow aware of, since we heard it somewhere, so it is something we should do because somehow we know more than the auto companies? Not very exact!
Did you know that an oil filter was an option as recently as the 1957 Chevy smallblock V8? Standardly, the motor did not have an oil filter. Granted, that is perhaps one of the reasons that expected motor lifespan was only 100k miles for all cars of that era. IIRC, Chrysler pioneered oil filtration, and then the spin on cartridge oil filter, back when their slogan was "Excellence in Engineering"
By "exercise" there is surely a test start procedure at the GEMA engine plant in Dundee MI, followed by running it at certain rpms for a certain length of time, with a computer controlling the test cycle and all sorts of sensors checking temps on all 4 cyls, exhaust temps, ignition voltage/current, alternator output, etc. Then, it is crated and shipped to Belvidere for installation. It would be exceedingly expensive to make it, ship it, then install a motor on the assembly line, and finally stick a key in at the end, and.....nothing...........
The Megafactories shows on National Geographic channel, as well John Ratzenbergers "Made In America" and others, are educational on how stuff is made.
I know that the owner's manual states moderate varying engine speed for first few hundred miles, then go to either Schedule A or B, which is either 3000 or 6000 miles for first indicated oil change. The Corporation, who is actually liable if something breaks while under warranty does not recommend changing oil or the filter until 3000 miles!
Whereas, early oil changes are something we are all somehow aware of, since we heard it somewhere, so it is something we should do because somehow we know more than the auto companies? Not very exact!
Did you know that an oil filter was an option as recently as the 1957 Chevy smallblock V8? Standardly, the motor did not have an oil filter. Granted, that is perhaps one of the reasons that expected motor lifespan was only 100k miles for all cars of that era. IIRC, Chrysler pioneered oil filtration, and then the spin on cartridge oil filter, back when their slogan was "Excellence in Engineering"
By "exercise" there is surely a test start procedure at the GEMA engine plant in Dundee MI, followed by running it at certain rpms for a certain length of time, with a computer controlling the test cycle and all sorts of sensors checking temps on all 4 cyls, exhaust temps, ignition voltage/current, alternator output, etc. Then, it is crated and shipped to Belvidere for installation. It would be exceedingly expensive to make it, ship it, then install a motor on the assembly line, and finally stick a key in at the end, and.....nothing...........
The Megafactories shows on National Geographic channel, as well John Ratzenbergers "Made In America" and others, are educational on how stuff is made.
No you don't need to change oil early. I did at around 750. Makes me feel better. Btw car companies are only concerned that the vehicle have no problems until after warranty and you are happy enough to buy another of their products. They do not care if the engine is still going strong at 250,000 miles or 400,000 km. You may.
location of filter
Out of curiosity, where is the oil filter located on the 2.4L engine?
Does anyone have pictures of the filter and its location?
Is it easily accessible (get to it and change it without ending up with "sludge arm")? I ask because my V6 Dakota has the filter in a location that makes it near impossible (without using a lift) to unscrew the filter without ending up with an entire arm soaked in oil.
Out of curiosity, where is the oil filter located on the 2.4L engine?
Does anyone have pictures of the filter and its location?
Is it easily accessible (get to it and change it without ending up with "sludge arm")? I ask because my V6 Dakota has the filter in a location that makes it near impossible (without using a lift) to unscrew the filter without ending up with an entire arm soaked in oil.
Just got mine changed at 4500 kilometres. I think I am going to start changing my own from now own though. I never realy trust other people doing things to my vehicle. I always do my own maitenance, even replaced my old transmission. Even dealers have a tendancy to overtighten everything.
Anybody have any experience with these:
http://www.fumotovalve.com/
I hear good things and a lot of people on the Caliber forums seem to like them. I am not sure if it will stick out past the skid plate. Fram also makes a similar item called the Sure Drain. It might be better suited as it is not as long.
Anybody have any experience with these:
http://www.fumotovalve.com/
I hear good things and a lot of people on the Caliber forums seem to like them. I am not sure if it will stick out past the skid plate. Fram also makes a similar item called the Sure Drain. It might be better suited as it is not as long.
I have the Frame Sure Drain on my Ford Explorer. It works great. Just replace the cap/plug on the vehicle with theirs. It has a one way valve that is opened when you screw on the flexible plastic hose, directs it right where you want it. Especially helpful on mine, as the plug/drain is located to the side.
I looked at the pictures and it appears that oil would also drain on the skid plate from the filter location as well. Did that happen to you?
I haven't done my 1st oil change on my FD-II so I'm interested to hear about other's experiences.
I have used the Fram Sure Drain for a few years on my RX-7 and it works well - just be patient as the oil doesnt flow very quickly out of it.
What size (or model number) Sure Drain fits the patriot?
I have used the Fram Sure Drain for a few years on my RX-7 and it works well - just be patient as the oil doesnt flow very quickly out of it.
What size (or model number) Sure Drain fits the patriot?
Thanks for the Sure Drain size info Hydronaut.
Sounds like we may have to come up with a scheme to minimize skidplate mess when removing the filter. One thought is to punch a hole in the bottom of the filter prior to removal, thus letting residual oil flow out of it.
On the topic of break-in. I could find no specific guidance regarding an "early" first oil change. I was going to do mine at around 1000 miles or so mainly because I'm anxious to see how easy it is to do the oil change on it. I'll probably switch to synthetic oil at ~7000 miles to ensure the engine is fully broken in - could probably make the switch a lot sooner than that with no ill effects.
Sounds like we may have to come up with a scheme to minimize skidplate mess when removing the filter. One thought is to punch a hole in the bottom of the filter prior to removal, thus letting residual oil flow out of it.
On the topic of break-in. I could find no specific guidance regarding an "early" first oil change. I was going to do mine at around 1000 miles or so mainly because I'm anxious to see how easy it is to do the oil change on it. I'll probably switch to synthetic oil at ~7000 miles to ensure the engine is fully broken in - could probably make the switch a lot sooner than that with no ill effects.
I debating switching to synthetic also. I am using Castrol GTX right now.
Anybody know who makes the Mopar 5W-20. I find the problem with dealership oil changes are that your choices of oil are limited. I am sticking with the Mopar filter for now until I can find a suitable replacement. Some have suggested WIX and Purolator. Not sure where to get either in Canada.
Anybody know who makes the Mopar 5W-20. I find the problem with dealership oil changes are that your choices of oil are limited. I am sticking with the Mopar filter for now until I can find a suitable replacement. Some have suggested WIX and Purolator. Not sure where to get either in Canada.
Mopar filters are strange... They are sometimes just rebranded FRAM filters, other times they are Purolator's. For 100% positive proof of the filter quality just use Wix/Purolator branded filter or the more expensive Mobil1 brand filters and know that your engine is getting the proper filtration. [Check out this link on filters here ]
Purolator can be found (in canada) @
UniSelect AutoParts
Auto Extra
Bestbuy AutoParts
McQuick Lube Outlets
[taken from pureoil.com]
Honestly there is no offical guideance on changing the oil early. Just do it to learn about your new vehicle as someone suggested and to take the task (of doing it vs. not doing it) off of your mind.
I have no idea where you can get the 5w-20 oil... It's very hard to come by from what I hear on other boards. Some people report walmart stocking it but I have never checked and can not confirm.
Edit: Keep thinking of stuff to add on
Purolator can be found (in canada) @
UniSelect AutoParts
Auto Extra
Bestbuy AutoParts
McQuick Lube Outlets
[taken from pureoil.com]
Honestly there is no offical guideance on changing the oil early. Just do it to learn about your new vehicle as someone suggested and to take the task (of doing it vs. not doing it) off of your mind.
I have no idea where you can get the 5w-20 oil... It's very hard to come by from what I hear on other boards. Some people report walmart stocking it but I have never checked and can not confirm.
Edit: Keep thinking of stuff to add on
Not sure where Mopar gets their 5W-20 from. I've heard that the 5W-20 grade is becoming more popular so hopefully the choices will expand. If they make Castrol in 5W-20 I would not hesitate to use it.
Maybe order oil filters over the internet? I suppose that could be done with oil too....
One oil that I love is Chevron Delo 400 - it is not a synthetic per-se, but is of a more advanced oil "group" as compared to traditional oils, and has pour-point and wear characteristics that are not far from (PAO-based) synthetic. Plus its relatively cheap. Problem is - I can only find it in 15W-40.
BTW I called Fram and they have discontinued the "Sure Drain" product line. Still can get it via ebay and Jegs.com but who knows for how long.
I'd be interested to hear from anyone with experience with the Fumoto valve on a FDII patriot.
Maybe order oil filters over the internet? I suppose that could be done with oil too....
One oil that I love is Chevron Delo 400 - it is not a synthetic per-se, but is of a more advanced oil "group" as compared to traditional oils, and has pour-point and wear characteristics that are not far from (PAO-based) synthetic. Plus its relatively cheap. Problem is - I can only find it in 15W-40.
BTW I called Fram and they have discontinued the "Sure Drain" product line. Still can get it via ebay and Jegs.com but who knows for how long.
I'd be interested to hear from anyone with experience with the Fumoto valve on a FDII patriot.
Oh just something else I thought of... back in the day when I worked at a quick lube (when I was a young lad) there was I trick I learned. I don't know if it'll work on the 2.4L but I'll type it out for someone to try.
If you drain the oil first, leave the plug out and then loosen the filter. Don't take it off, just crack the seal enough so the pressure can escape. This used to let out just a tiny bit more oil from the block than the normal plug, then filter change style did. Didn't work on all cars but I remember it working on chrysler products...
If you drain the oil first, leave the plug out and then loosen the filter. Don't take it off, just crack the seal enough so the pressure can escape. This used to let out just a tiny bit more oil from the block than the normal plug, then filter change style did. Didn't work on all cars but I remember it working on chrysler products...
Well, on my 13 year old 160,000 mile Neon that the Patriot replaced, I changed it at 2832 miles for the first oil change--as per the owner's manual (3000). The rest of the car is getting pretty rusty, but the motor is still going strong, still delivering 30 mpg city.
Another former car of mine, 1993 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L, now owned by a friend, is now close to 300,000 miles. Motor is good, but has finally developed a pretty good oil leak from rear main. BTW, when I did the head gasket on the Acclaim at 175,000 miles, the cylinder cross hatch was still easily visible! I expected to at least see a "ring ridge" at the top of the cylinder, but the bore was smooth all the way to the top, with a beautiful cross hatch!
IIRC, my 1989 Ford Mustang 5.0L owner's manual specifically stated an early oil change was not necessary, due to special break-in oil installed by the manufacturer.
But, sure, do whatever you are most comfortable doing.
Another former car of mine, 1993 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L, now owned by a friend, is now close to 300,000 miles. Motor is good, but has finally developed a pretty good oil leak from rear main. BTW, when I did the head gasket on the Acclaim at 175,000 miles, the cylinder cross hatch was still easily visible! I expected to at least see a "ring ridge" at the top of the cylinder, but the bore was smooth all the way to the top, with a beautiful cross hatch!
IIRC, my 1989 Ford Mustang 5.0L owner's manual specifically stated an early oil change was not necessary, due to special break-in oil installed by the manufacturer.
But, sure, do whatever you are most comfortable doing.
Yeah, either way the engine is going to run forever... They are pretty easy to take care of these days too so that is a nice bonus.
I never liked changing the plugs on my old 89 Mustang because the A/C canister was right in the was on cylinder #4. And that double hump oil pan was a real PITA! With the Libby - the plugs are all right out from the top. Just pop off the air cleaner duct and go to town with your socket wrench. The oil is also pretty easy
gotta love cars that are painless to wrench on.
I never liked changing the plugs on my old 89 Mustang because the A/C canister was right in the was on cylinder #4. And that double hump oil pan was a real PITA! With the Libby - the plugs are all right out from the top. Just pop off the air cleaner duct and go to town with your socket wrench. The oil is also pretty easy
gotta love cars that are painless to wrench on.
I don't think such a thing exist's... Best thing to do is crack the filter seal and let the oil drain down the filter into the pan. Use a papertowel and then remove said filter without tipping so the oil doesn't run down your arm.
Lukewarm oil = Nice
hot oil = unhappy nerves located on the forearm
Lukewarm oil = Nice
hot oil = unhappy nerves located on the forearm
As an update to the "Sure Drain" product - I actually found one at a local auto part store (Salvo Auto parts). They must be selling off old inventory.
Found Castrol 5W-20 at another chain store (Advance Auto Parts). They had a couple other brands with that grade, including Mobil 1.
Found Castrol 5W-20 at another chain store (Advance Auto Parts). They had a couple other brands with that grade, including Mobil 1.
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