[rcguymike]

OP has already vented about it not being a tire issue, but I'm with you. We had a couple lousy sets of tires on our Wrangler and it was unstable in rain and outrageous in snow. If the snow wasn't deep I would have preferred my Grand Prix that I had at the time. With the Goodyear RTSs (definitely not a snow tire) it couldn't even resist the crown of the road! Not a good situation on winding hilly rural roads in a snowstorm.

Also, on the aforementioned Grand Prix I noticed it was unstable in rain and I put new tires on the REAR (not the front as one might usually do) and it corrected the problem.

Still, OP insists its not the tires, but myself, I'd get a new set of tires before I'd start rebuilding the suspension.

I was responding to jeepgirlafirst...

 

[Ignatz]

I was responding to jeepgirlafirst...

So sorry. :notworthy: I wasn't paying attention. But my comment stands. I'd be darn sure of my tires before I spent $$ on that kind of speculation.

I, too, am curious about her tires.

 

[rcguymike]

So sorry. :notworthy: I wasn't paying attention. But my comment stands. I'd be darn sure of my tires before I spent $$ on that kind of speculation.

I, too, am curious about her tires.

It's been a while since we've already discussed all this...lol

 

[salty]

A few thoughts.... I have 165,000 miles on my 2008...commuting 132 miles a day in upstate NY.
First ball joints to be replaced were at 35,000 miles. Factory joints are trash. Years ago there were no aftermarket ball joints and the whole control arm was replaced, which also gave you nice new bushings. Now garages are pressing out the joints and just changing the ball joint. A mistake in my opinion. Worn control arm bushings will affect handling.
Tie rod ends are again garbage from the factory and more times than not your local garage will replace the outer, often several times over years and not give the inner joint a close look. This too will severely affect handling.
Toe links are one of the cheapest parts and should be replaced just for the heck of it if you happen to have work done.
Rear coil springs are terrible and do not last very long at all from the factory. I just priced a pair from rock auto for 62 dollars. Replacing these will restore ride height, ride comfort, and drastically change camber back to original specs, hence affecting handling.
My patriot drives like a train on rails on ice. I attribute alot of it to the Goodyear triple treads. Not cheap but Im convinced they keep me on the road. When I have had loose steering or rear end wiggle it has ALWAYS been a worn joint. Worn struts and springs will also affect how your tire contacts the road, no matter what tire it is.
Drive safe.

 

[m44moonernagant]

I own a 2012 Patriot with 40,000 miles that I purchased in July for a good winter vehicle for my wife. I love the looks, comfort, and overall performance of the Patriot even though the CVT is a bit loud.... until winter rolled in.
This is the most unstable vehicle I have owned for winter driving! It slithers around on icy roads like nothing I've driven. Before winter hit I purchased some steel rims and General Altima Arctic tires, as they worked very well on the Ford Taurus I had before the Jeep. So this behavior is not because of tires and I've been under the car and checked the suspension for worn parts but nothing obvious. I believe it's a design flaw of some kind for as many people that have posted with this problem. I have a 09 Ford Explorer I drive for work with 112000 miles, with Cooper At3 and have had no suspension work done to it, that tracks as straight as an arrow in comparison.

I've lived my entire life in the western UP of Michigan in the snow belt and have 40 years of winter driving with rear drive to front drive cars and trucks under my belt and I'll say this on of the scariest rides to date. It's a shame, I wanted a Jeep Patriot since they came out and now that I have it I wish I didn't.

 

[Sarkus]

I own a 2012 Patriot with 40,000 miles that I purchased in July for a good winter vehicle for my wife. I love the looks, comfort, and overall performance of the Patriot even though the CVT is a bit loud.... until winter rolled in.
This is the most unstable vehicle I have owned for winter driving! It slithers around on icy roads like nothing I've driven. Before winter hit I purchased some steel rims and General Altima Arctic tires, as they worked very well on the Ford Taurus I had before the Jeep. So this behavior is not because of tires and I've been under the car and checked the suspension for worn parts but nothing obvious. I believe it's a design flaw of some kind for as many people that have posted with this problem. I have a 09 Ford Explorer I drive for work with 112000 miles, with Cooper At3 and have had no suspension work done to it, that tracks as straight as an arrow in comparison.

I've lived my entire life in the western UP of Michigan in the snow belt and have 40 years of winter driving with rear drive to front drive cars and trucks under my belt and I'll say this on of the scariest rides to date. It's a shame, I wanted a Jeep Patriot since they came out and now that I have it I wish I didn't.

Is it a FWD or 4WD version? If it's the 4WD version do you see any indications that the AWD is kicking in automatically like it should? I've had my Pat for three winters now and it's extremely good on ice so it seems like something is wrong in your case.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Jdog]

my pat is great blazing through snowy roads but very skechy on ice packed roads at highway speeds.
It improved some when I got winter rated tires with the little snow flake rating .. but it is what it is.... a lightweight, boxy chassis with a short wheelbase... not exactly an ideal recipe for a stable ice vehicle.

 

[aroundincircles]

Not on ice, but in mud, which is also very slick, a patriot's short wheel base with a majority of the weight on the front wheels, it would like to try to get sideways in the mud.

I learned to have a little extra weight in the back, and to be a lot smoother on the throttle, and to lock the 4x4, so it doesn't engage/disengage. once I got that down it was a lot better.

 

[rcguymike]

I own a 2012 Patriot with 40,000 miles that I purchased in July for a good winter vehicle for my wife. I love the looks, comfort, and overall performance of the Patriot even though the CVT is a bit loud.... until winter rolled in.
This is the most unstable vehicle I have owned for winter driving! It slithers around on icy roads like nothing I've driven. Before winter hit I purchased some steel rims and General Altima Arctic tires, as they worked very well on the Ford Taurus I had before the Jeep. So this behavior is not because of tires and I've been under the car and checked the suspension for worn parts but nothing obvious. I believe it's a design flaw of some kind for as many people that have posted with this problem. I have a 09 Ford Explorer I drive for work with 112000 miles, with Cooper At3 and have had no suspension work done to it, that tracks as straight as an arrow in comparison.

I've lived my entire life in the western UP of Michigan in the snow belt and have 40 years of winter driving with rear drive to front drive cars and trucks under my belt and I'll say this on of the scariest rides to date. It's a shame, I wanted a Jeep Patriot since they came out and now that I have it I wish I didn't.

Welcome fellow Yooper! How are you checking everything out? Are you raising it up on jack stands/a lift and wiggling individual tires? It's generally harder to diagnose suspension issues with a load on them. Also has the car had an alignment recently? With all the offroading and general "baja-ing" around I've had to get a few alignments on my '13. I think it is one of the best performing winter cars I've ever driven, and that's on mud terrain tires(they are siped too though). Also I've had to replace an inner tie rod, but I've done all of this work on my own for less than a couple hundred dollars. I'd start with the alignment or having the alignment shop inspect everything for looseness before they do the alignment.

 

[miketmx]

In December of 2014 I was driving our 2008 Patriot on ice covered roads and it pretty well tracked in a straight line but I had trouble trying to stop on that glare ice. I had my Michelin X-Ice Xi2 tires on that I had for 7 winters. On that trip I bought 4 brand new studded Hercules Avalanche Xtreme winter tires in 215/65/17 size since the Blizzak WS80 tires that I ordered were not in stock. I used the new tires on our 2015 Patriot last winter and this winter currently. Before Christmas we made a long trip to Lewiston Idaho on pretty crappy roads the whole way. The tires were great in the snow but maybe a little bit squirrely when the highway was glazed with ice. I had to slow down. We only have about 14k miles on our 2015 so there are no suspension issues at all. Anyhow the following video shows the importance of slowing down and not getting distracted:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=328964517158847

 

[Ignatz]

I own a 2012 Patriot with 40,000 miles that I purchased in July for a good winter vehicle for my wife. I love the looks, comfort, and overall performance of the Patriot even though the CVT is a bit loud.... until winter rolled in.
This is the most unstable vehicle I have owned for winter driving! It slithers around on icy roads like nothing I've driven. Before winter hit I purchased some steel rims and General Altima Arctic tires, as they worked very well on the Ford Taurus I had before the Jeep. So this behavior is not because of tires and I've been under the car and checked the suspension for worn parts but nothing obvious. I believe it's a design flaw of some kind for as many people that have posted with this problem. I have a 09 Ford Explorer I drive for work with 112000 miles, with Cooper At3 and have had no suspension work done to it, that tracks as straight as an arrow in comparison.

I've lived my entire life in the western UP of Michigan in the snow belt and have 40 years of winter driving with rear drive to front drive cars and trucks under my belt and I'll say this on of the scariest rides to date. It's a shame, I wanted a Jeep Patriot since they came out and now that I have it I wish I didn't.

I have the Altimax Arctics on both our FWD Patriots. I had a set on my Patriot and when we got another for Wifey I put a set on that one too. And ours are only FWD. I challenged it some on Monday (watched a truck spin into the guardrail right in front of me) but never lost traction -- that was on hardpacked highway snow before the DOT got to it. Not exactly ice, but definitely slippery (ask the guy in front of me). I think my Patriot is outstanding in snow and as I said above, all bets are off on ice, but this is as good or better than anything else I've driven in winter.

 

[Ignatz]

Thinking a little more on this, I wonder if there isn't a problem similar to the water leak problem. Most don't have the problem, but there is a significant minority who have a definite problem. I don't get these mechanics that want to rebuilt the entire suspension -- that seems like overkill to me.

 

[m44moonernagant]

rcguymike, thanks. I've seen your pat in Houghton about a year ago. looks great, i even snapped a couple of shots on my phone.

as for my Pat, its 4x4 and when checking the suspension I've checked it on stands and off. I've even jacked up the car and then the suspension to different levels of compresion to check it and there is nothing obvious that stands out. I'll have it up for an oil change this weekend and check it out again but at this point it's a head scratcher

 

[patriot-problems]

I have studded winter tires... did not solve the problem.

 

[patriot-problems]

Tires don't matter in this case

I just spent a fortune on good studded winter tires, it did not have any affect on the problem.

 

[RobertK]

Have you driven other 4wds on ice? Somewhere I read that with 4wds the front & rear axles are never in perfect sync. So if Maybe you only have FWD or do not drive on icey roads.

Last night I rode in my son's 2014 Patriot 2.4 liter awd automatic six speed on 230 miles of ice covered roads. Temperature 3 degrees Fahrenheit. Road salt was not melting the ice on the roads. Lee had to drive at less than 40 mph to stay in control. Load in car 900 lbs. We were passed by EVERYBODY including two Fiat Renegades - no stability problems and a Patriot that was obviously a 2wd going at least 65,

This vehicle has an engineering problem. The electronic transfer of power to the rear wheels is too sensitive. The same axel brake locking differential is also too sensitive. When the two are operating together on ice there is very little directional stability.

On the newer Compass and Renegades there is a dial on the console next to the gear shifter which can be used to adjust this twitchy overly sensitive traction control.

It is not tires, suspension, tie rods or any other suspension parts. It is an overly sensitive over reacting non adjustable inadequate traction control system...

 

[Ignatz]

Last night I rode in my son's 2014 Patriot 2.4 liter awd automatic six speed on 230 miles of ice covered roads. Temperature 3 degrees Fahrenheit. Road salt was not melting the ice on the roads. Lee had to drive at less than 40 mph to stay in control. Load in car 900 lbs. We were passed by EVERYBODY including two Fiat Renegades - no stability problems and a Patriot that was obviously a 2wd going at least 65,

This vehicle has an engineering problem. The electronic transfer of power to the rear wheels is too sensitive. The same axel brake locking differential is also too sensitive. When the two are operating together on ice there is very little directional stability.

On the newer Compass and Renegades there is a dial on the console next to the gear shifter which can be used to adjust this twitchy overly sensitive traction control.

It is not tires, suspension, tie rods or any other suspension parts. It is an overly sensitive over reacting non adjustable inadequate traction control system...

If the road was as bad as you describe I don't think there is a vehicle out there that can handle 40MPH in snow or especially on ice. Seems to me your son was being prudent. Anybody doing 65 under those conditions is nuts. As for other vehicles passing you, I agree its amazing what some people get away with . . . and sadly, some don't.

Gosh, I sound like my Driver's Ed teacher!

Now presuming that you were driving in adverse conditions and unable to maintain a safe reasonable speed, then most likely you have a tire problem -- maybe uneven tread or inflation, or maybe you were running on all-season tires. As I've said umpteen times on this side (and possibly earlier in this thread) all-season tires tires are not dedicated winter tires -- really they are three-season tires. Driving on ice is where you will most miss the quality rubber formulas that you need under severe winter conditions.

If you've read through these threads then you've seen some suggestions regarding possible culprits such as alignment. A minor problem that is undetectable on a dry road might be all the nudge your vehicle to be unstable on ice.

I drove home about an hour ago. According to my EVIC the temperature was 26F and my road, while treated, was still ice covered. I have AWD and studded tires and I still felt my Jeep slide a little. I wasn't surprised. Ice is what it is: no tire is magic, nor will any suspension or AWD system overcome it. You are piloting an awful lot of weight at a remarkable speed, all while you are at the mercy of a very little rubber on a surface that provides very little help.

I've spun cars around in winter driving and it wasn't the fault of the vehicle or the tires, nor in most situations even me, although in every case I admit I should have been going slower. I humbly admit to one time playing around in snow and doing a 180, but it was at a slow speed. I was trying to show off and make my car fishtail and when it did I overcorrected. Silly me; I was 16 -- need I say more?

Drive careful out there!

 

[RonD]

My opinion only....the non adjustable, overly sensitive traction control could be, but that is subjective. I regularly drive on such ice covered, cold condition and I don't have the same opinion. If someone wants to speed on past, well more power to them. I'm playing it safe and not over driving my new tires for the conditions (less than 1k on them). I don't find what you're saying is out of line, but if you are concerned about the safety of your Jeep, I would say to park it and bring the issue to the attention of the Jeep rep in this community. I believe they go by Jeep Cares. FCA is concerned about safety and maybe you have hit on something that needs further investigation ?

 

[RobertK]

My opinion only....the non adjustable, overly sensitive traction control could be, but that is subjective. I regularly drive on such ice covered, cold condition and I don't have the same opinion. If someone wants to speed on past, well more power to them........?

RonD——You either do not have a clue what is going on here, or you work for Fiat Chrysler damage control. The Jeep Patriot has a defective ELECTRONIC. STABILITY CONROL system, period. It is not subjective or anecdotal. If it was not defective why did All of the Jeep models get the traction control dial after the Patriot was dropped From production?

Why can the Electronic Stability Control be overridden by depressing the ESC button on the console continuously for over 5 seconds? Why does a notice come. On the dashboard ESCOFF? ...and it will be off.

The system cannot operate in an effective manner under glare ice conditions.

The system is too sensitive and over reacts, causing fishtailing and weaving. And don’t blame it on my tires. Not every person on this forum agrees with you and had bad / improper tires. People have described the handling as scary, unsafe etc. Why else would Chrysler cancel a vehicle that was selling over 110,000 units a year? Tires......suspension.....tie rods.......etc. are all just a smoke screen and a cover up. Damage control is what you guys are all about.

Our family’s “unsafe at any speed” Corvair handled better than this vehicle.

 

[Ignatz]

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the system. Maybe yours isn't working right. As for me, I think in highway snow -- not glare ice, I realize, but in highway snow -- where I might want to be driving 40ishMPH, my FWD Patriot is better, yes better, than our Wrangler. The Wrangler is great in deep snow and nothing beats it off road, but on a snowcovered expressway the fat tires and relatively square stance means the Wrangler gets sideways rather easily. Not so with my Patriot.