Form letter
they don't want to lose your possibly business so they neither deny nor comfirm anything within the letter.

my thoughts Crysler will not offer a diesel in the patriot

 

It seems like the usual guff that any supplier rolls out. It's not saying it won't but it's not saying it will, as they say just check back frequently for updates.

 

"We don't have one planned yet, but we aren't going to say we are not going to say that we will never have one"

 

it is a form letter
However, I believe that the Patriot will be offered in the US with a CRD
This is based on the following
(1) Already made in the US for export
(2) Consumer's screaming for a more fuel efficient vehicle

The hold up is the EPA's restrictions on emissions from Diesel engines.
Ford has already stated that in 3rd q 2009/1st q 2010, they will be offering in the US their popular(In europe) Ford Fiesta in a diesel version (76 MPG btw)

 

who cares Diesel is about 20% more per galon here then gas eating up any "savings" I would see driving to work.
and knowing that diesel will cost more when I buy it over gas it's just not worth it.

now when I see a hybird rolling out or full electric or alternative to gas/diesel is when I'll get excited.

 

I'm not sure your math is correct...

Let's assume gas is $3.50/gal and diesel is 20% more at $4.20/gal.

13 gal of gas is $45.50
13 gal of diesel is $54.60

Gas engine gets 26mpg
Diesel engine gets 44mpg

My math says that a diesel engine would get you 10.47 miles for each dollar spent, while a gas engine would get you 7.42 miles per dollar spent. And that's being conservative on the mileage of a diesel. IIRC, that one article of the guy doing the cross country trip through Europe was reporting almost 60MPG!

 

Of course they are going to have one, because the alternative is to lose their business to competitors which do. The question is – when?

 

The 2009 Diesel Jetta will get about double the fuel economy of it's gas counterpart. So, will you pay 20% (more like 15% in my area currently) more for fuel to go twice as far?

There will be no MK diesel in the US. Maybe its sucessor, but it is too late to be adding a new engine that Chrysler does not even have for the US. The Euro CCRD would be nice, but but making it meet US emmisions will not happen in the next 3 years.

Regarding competion, no one has one, nor plans to have one in the near future fro small US vehicels. The Tiguron might be the first competitor with a diesel, considering VW will have the first Tier 2 Bin 5 engien for this size on the market this Summer.

 

Add in that the "CTD" option will run you likly aty LEAST $5,000 premium on the price tag of your patriot and you'll see where I'm coming from
it will suffer the same fate that the current hybirds will, over priced and only those who "think it's neat" will buy them, leaving the majority of people still buying and driving bigger and more powerful vechiles.

My co-worker just bought a F250 with a big V8 in it..."I need to haul my boat around" was his reasoning....me thinks that renting a truck to do that....the one time he needs too(he keeps it in the same maraina each year) woudl have been much better then dropping 70k on a truck.

ps
diesel is NOT the answer to the fuel "crisis" we are experienceing.

 

Add in that the "CTD" option will run you likly aty LEAST $5,000 premium on the price tag of your patriot and you'll see where I'm coming from

That said, you'd still make that money back (assuming $5000) after about 25 fill ups (less than 10,000 miles)!

I'm not saying Diesel is a long term solution, but it would be a quick band aid for American drivers!

 

Also, remember that diesel can run biodiesel with little or no mods so it has the option of being alot greener if you have the resources to do that. I would LOVE a Patriot CRD!

 

I'd love it don't get me wrong.
but it has to be bought by people that can afford to buy it, I wouldn't be able to and knowing the big companies it woudln't be available(unless you specially ordered it) in any other trim then Fully LTD loaded(not that thats such a bad thing)

I looked into buying a Jetta wagon TDI and came to the conclusion I'd never be any better financially then buying a gas version(theres about a 40% premium priceing on them over gas) so adding that inot it with the added fuel cost minus the fuel mileage savings it basically came out that unless I can put 400,000kms on a TDI without any major repairs I'd not see any value out of it and from someone that drives 20-25kkms per year I'd never see any "real" value for the extra money I spent innitally purchasing the vechile.
That and try finding one?....lol

it's a step towards better things for sure, hell I wonder how much it would be to import an engine and swap it in?

 

The 2009 Jetta Diesel will have a premium of about $2200. The Mercede E320 is $1000 more than the E350. $5k premium is not accurate.

The reason why there is a $5-7k premium on medium duty pickups is because of the market, not the cost. BTW, a diesel F250 can be had for under $30k. That won't be a crew cab 4wd with leather, btu will have the powertrain. Big discounts on big trucks, like $10-15k off MSRP.

Diesel is not the long term solution. It is, however, a good short term solution for the people that drive the most, lots of hightway miles. What is surprising to many is that hybrids will not reduce fuel consumption as much as we think. Since they are beneficial @ low speeds, they work for people who take an hour to drive 10 miles, lots of sto pand go and lwo speeds. They are of no use on the highway for people that drive 60+ miles each way @ 75mph. Surprise, the people who drive 120-150 miles per day are the ones who put 25k+ miles per year and use the most fuel. Hybrid owners who put on 10k miles, financially should have purchased a different gasoline vehicle and not paid the hybrid premium.

Still waiting for diesel electric hybrids, the best of both worlds in the next 10 years.

 

If they really wanted these things to sell with in diesel form, they'd have to stop making them with regular gas engines. As others have said, not many people will buy them if they know they can get basically the same vehicle for a few grand less. The Patriot right now starts at about $16,000. If it started at say $20,000 and there was no regular gas option it'd have more of a fighting chance. You have to do what Toyota did with the Prius - make it it's own vehicle.

 

I agree with you, they must stop making them with this regular gas engines.. The cheaper the better.. :banana:

 

sorry I should have mentioned I'm in Canada where we pay a premium on everything....even the vechiles we build....lol

rigth now the only "real" diesel family car is the jetta around here(Mercedez not included)
so if you want one, say a 2003....gas goes for around $11k, diesels are fetching around $20k

thats a lot of gas.

Different markets in different areas, the base line for the patriot is over $20k here as well.

Hell for a car built in Ontario it cost less for Freight to florida then it does to toronto...makes sense to someone.

truth be told had Honda decided to build the Accord touring with CTD and offer it here I would be driving it instead of my patriot.

 

rigth now the only "real" diesel family car is the jetta around here(Mercedez not included)
so if you want one, say a 2003....gas goes for around $11k, diesels are fetching around $20k

That just justifies why you should pay $2k more for it new to get $9k better resale. Besides the lower fuel bills, you also have more money in your pocket when you go to sell.

 

Why wait? I would rather get the best now and upgrade again in 10 years when the elec/biodiesel is avail.! It may not be the answer but it would help... that is better than doing nothing. It would also help show there is a need and demand for them so more research and advancement may come sooner, too.

Diesel's tend to have a lot more lower end torque (a plus for off-roading)

You can get 100% biodiesel through a co-op out here for $2.25/US gal

 

Patriot export models are slated to get the new 2.2L diesel, maybe it will also make its way to the North American market.

 

I did the math too, and one thing you HAVE to consider is term of ownership. If I had a diesel Patriot, I'd keep it for the life of the vehicle. The math is in this post: CLICK. I seriously doubt CRD would be more than a $3k option, considering by the time it comes out here, maybe '10, there will be many other diesel vehicle options.

Let's see how much longer we can beat this dead horse! Bottom line is, Diesel IS cheaper in the long run (not those who lease/buy for a few years), and it is better for the environment. OH, let's not forget the added power, good for off-roading and hauling, just what a Jeep is meant for!

 

Here in Latvia, we have diesel Patrot 2kEUR cheeper then 2,4CVT...http://www.jeep.lv/lv/models/?c=patriot&p=prices + average fuel consumption around 40% less, despite diesel is around 10% more expensive. It's bad that tese engines does not support biodiesel...

 

saw an ad someplace but could not find it however jeep is thinking of offering a swapable diesel, kinda plug and play for the wrangler

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/jeep-performance-may-offer-diesel-engine-swap-kit-for-wrangler/

Jeep Performance, a division of Mopar, is reportedly working on an engine swap kit that would allow owners to install the 2.8L diesel four-cylinder from the last-gen Liberty CRD in their Wranglers. The 2.8L four-cylinder produces 160 horsepower and 295 pound-feet of torque, and while it was good for 21 mpg city/26 mpg highway in the Liberty,



I just watched a video at the BMW site they are going to offer a 3 series car diesel I think it had twin turbos, this autum. also the Bmw x3 in the UK actually costs less than an x3 gas, and gets about 13 mpg better,

 

Bio diesel costs about 80 cents a gallon to make... The kit to make it can be put together for a few hundred or ready bought for about a grand...

 

I own a 2l diesel patriot and wouldn't go back too a petrol car

the price of diesel is a little higher here in Aust between 5c and 25c depending on price cycles

the reasons For liking the diesel
1. get 550-700k per tank 45l don't have too fill as often - thats about 10-12 days for me - old car was at least weekly
2. 6spd manual gear box is great
3. power
4. towing is a breeze doesn't change the fuel economy much get about 8l per 100k towing about 700kg
5. torque
6. Turbo
7. cruising a breeze - once in 6th gear hardly have too change gear
8. green issues
9. servicing differences minimal if not cheaper

disadvantage

1. noise at idol
2. no auto
3. higher per litre cost (only due to taxes though) which should change as diesel cheaper to make

 

From 2005 article on diesel engines: http://www.allbusiness.com/transportation-warehousing/599027-1.html

While most of the article focuses on truck fleets, I thought this was interesting on ULSD.

Next year fuel suppliers will begin delivering ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel (ULSD). The following year will see essentially no diesel available for road use that is not almost sulfur free. This will, of course, affect the lubricity of the fuel, but it will also likely affect its cold weather performance. Infinium, a European-based additive supplier with low sulfur fuel experience, in a published report says, "Removing sulfur has an impact on diesel fuel characteristics. Cetane and cloud-point are elevated while aromatics are lowered. Although the magnitude of these changes will depend on the type and set-up of the refinery units, they will typically make fuels less responsive to cold flow additives. It is likely that fuels of the future will become more challenging to treat to meet refiners' and marketers' needs."

 

You guys are missing the point entirely. Diesel isnt just a short term option. It is our only option at a renewable fuel to usewith limited technological changes. All electric cars are expensive to develop. The reason we need Diesels in america is for those of us who have the ability and knowledge (not mention desire) to make biodiesel now. Eventually people will realize that Biodiesel is a much better alternative to gasoline that E85 (which has a higher carbon footprint per gallon than gasoline AND causes corn prices to skyrocket). This is the reason we need to fight to get diesels in america, not simply for the joy of having a diesel.

 

to tack on to walkeraviators's post:
Biodiesel is much better than petroleum diesel at lubricating and smells nice at the exhaust too.
a little trivia knowledge:
When Mr Rudolph Diesel first invented the diesel engine in 1892 it ran on peanut oil, later after he was assasinated, the petroleum industry came out with their own fuel and had the balls to call it "diesel Fuel"!

 

First, the life time warranty would need to cover the CRD.
Second, Diesel would need to cost about the same as gas. Both the engines and the fuel.
Third, they would have to listen to just about every other post on "Chrysler listens" where people absolutely dwell on the need for a diesel.

Here is the important statement

"I would hesitate to discount the possibility of new
products on the horizon,"

Basically, we might make one available.

And: Those of us in customer service have no idea what the company is really going to do but we have been instructed to be as vague as possible using as many words as possible so no one can tell what we actually say or mean.

 

My point, is there are pluses and minuses to diesel engines. Before anyone buys one, they need to take ALL the information into account before purchasing a diesel. For me, as I have stated before, I DON'T want a diesel. I really can't "babysit" my car in the cold winter climate. I need to know that it will start after setting outside from 3 AM till I get off work anywhere between 12 and 13 hours later. All those MPG and torque ratings wouldn't mean a thing to me if my vehicle doesn't start--and I'm one hour away from home.

Now, if I had some "chump" change to buy a purely off-road machine, then I might look at a diesel. As it is, my play car is my daily driver.