We have a 2007 Jeep Patriot that just had its 6th started installed at our local dealership. Three or four times the started seemed to engage while we were driving and the car quickly died. The other times it seemed to be fine when it was shut off but would not start on next attempt. Two dealerships have tried to figure out why and have come up with no solutions. I am supposed to pick it up tomorrow, knowing that someplace, sometime, usually when it is most inconvenient (when it is ever?) I will be stalled on the road, waiting for the tow truck. Any ideas would be most appreciated!!
Six starters in a year
Oliver12
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We have a 2007 Jeep Patriot that just had its 6th started installed at our local dealership. Three or four times the started seemed to engage while we were driving and the car quickly died. The other times it seemed to be fine when it was shut off but would not start on next attempt. Two dealerships have tried to figure out why and have come up with no solutions. I am supposed to pick it up tomorrow, knowing that someplace, sometime, usually when it is most inconvenient (when it is ever?) I will be stalled on the road, waiting for the tow truck. Any ideas would be most appreciated!!
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For a starter to "phantom" engage while driving--there's a real wiring/switch problem in my book. I don't know if this circuit goes thru the confuser or not--if it does--then I believe the confuser is the culprit.
I feel your pain, and it always bothers me to "be the smartest guy in the dealership" when I take a vehicle in for a problem. I usually try to find situations where the car fails and document them so that the mechanics can see for themselves. Too often, many don't take the owner's comments into consideration.
I feel your pain, and it always bothers me to "be the smartest guy in the dealership" when I take a vehicle in for a problem. I usually try to find situations where the car fails and document them so that the mechanics can see for themselves. Too often, many don't take the owner's comments into consideration.
So they cant reproduce so they just replace... I love it. I hope they are testing these starters. I didnt think this particular starting system would allow a crank while running and definately not in gear. Ide want to know exactly how the starters are failing. Its time to check battery leads and the cranking circuit.
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The PCM controls a double start over-ride safety that does not allow the starter to be engaged if the engine is already running.
So that is the part that needs replaced? We have been working with customer service but not getting anywhere. The last we were told was that it was fixed and they could find nothing wrong. What would be the problem with replacing that part as opposed to replacing warrantied starter after warrantied starter?
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I don't recall hearing this one before, in fact, not many electrical problems with the Pats.
Starter throws out the roller pinion while its running. YIKES. I can't remember if there is an override so you don't engage the starter after cranking it over by accident. I'll trythat at home.
No loose wire at the starter, my old Ramcharger had no shielding from below, so the wire was always getting pulled out/off.
Is it too late for a Lemon Law claim on an '07?
Starter throws out the roller pinion while its running. YIKES. I can't remember if there is an override so you don't engage the starter after cranking it over by accident. I'll trythat at home.
No loose wire at the starter, my old Ramcharger had no shielding from below, so the wire was always getting pulled out/off.
Is it too late for a Lemon Law claim on an '07?
If it is the PCM...would that then be included in the lifetime warranty. Are they avoiding the possibility of having to take responsibility for all of the costs that we have incurred over the past year with replacing these starters?
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Highly unlikely that it's the PCM. The PCM function to start is controlled by the ignition switch. You turn the switch, the PCM activates a relay which controls the starter solenoid. The relay can be faulty and intermittently throwing the solenoid into the flywheel or not function at all and leave you stranded.
I would think the steeler should know to test this. ****, check yourself. Replace the starter relay. $10! If it never happens again......vuwalla!
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I would think the steeler should know to test this. ****, check yourself. Replace the starter relay. $10! If it never happens again......vuwalla!
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Solid advice. I think its likely that the cranking while running is killing the starters. But its hard to say since we dont know. Ide be looking into everything past the pcm. Might even pull the realay and put some voltage through it if you can figure out what pins are what. Maybe its just a std relay.
If there is a condition causing the solenoids to fry (poor connection or ground) you might also end up with some unusual behavior like this.
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Actually, the ignition switch sends a start signal to the Sentry Key Remote Entry Module. This then sends a signal over the can bus network to start the engine. The wire diagrams are kind of tough to follow, but I assume the PCM get's the can bus signal, looks at the gear neutral/park switch (or clutch depressed switch) or possibly just gets a thumbs up from the transmission control module over the can bus, then it fires the starter relay. So you could have a strange can bus problem, but I'd start by replacing the only module that actually sends the start signal. The key sentry module.
This is an odd one though as you have two failures going on here. One that a "run the starter" signal is being generated and two, that the gear interlock is not stopping the request.
This Jeep doesn't have a remote start module installed does it?
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@todde702
For a DIY'er the relay is a quick easy test/fix. A PCM or other module becomes very complex.
I gave the very short version.
My point remains to replace the last thing before it hits the starter solenoid. The relay.
However the signal goes to and fro, it will always activate a relay to engage the solenoid. If that doesn't work then work ur way up into modules and such.
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For a DIY'er the relay is a quick easy test/fix. A PCM or other module becomes very complex.
I gave the very short version.
My point remains to replace the last thing before it hits the starter solenoid. The relay.
However the signal goes to and fro, it will always activate a relay to engage the solenoid. If that doesn't work then work ur way up into modules and such.
Sent from my iPhone using Autoguide
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i am having the exact same symptoms with my jeep patriot. starter just comes on by itself well driving and does not disengage when i turn the car off. wondering if anything was found on what was causing this?
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I was reading in the owner's manual that once you turn the key, you can let go of it, and it will crank up to 10 seconds until engine starts. What ever controls the timing circuit might be erratic in the time it allows, or in not recognizing that the engine has started. But, that couldn't be true because the timer should shut off in that 10 seconds- So it goes back to wherever that timer is- the PCM?
If you did get to the bottom of it, let us know.
If you did get to the bottom of it, let us know.
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