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TheDeadInMe

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So when my fiancee and I were on our trip back from camping over the weekend, she was constantly nagging and yelling at me that I was taking corners too fast and that I could tip our 2010 FD1 non lifted Riot with stock tires. It always shows to take parts of the roads we were on to go 50mph when after going around the sharper parts the speed limit was 65mph. I always take corners a lot faster than the suggested speed. I know the car and can feel what it does when my fiancee is just being a backseat driver (passenger seat really).

How will the jeep start to feel before it tips? Any suggestions? I am assuming it will start to either fishtail or skid before tipping. I guess I am asking how hard it is to tip a non lifted jeep.
 
it doesnt take much, especially if you over correct the steering...but the ESP should kick in ...then you will know you went to far.......
 
Electronic Roll Mitigation programming should make it extremely difficult, unless disengaged. It should NOT fishtail or skid, if everything is working correctly. The problem would lie in having a blowout on a tire while in a highspeed turn. Especially a front tire on the outside of the turn. If you want to experience the quality of the ESC system yourself take your Jeep off-road, or in the snow, and TRY to spin it with the ESC fully engaged. Then try it 1/2 off and full off (4WD models). It's amazing. Its nearly impossible to do a "donut" unless you are on ice.
 
I have put the ESP to the test and it works i was going 80-90 down hill on a curvy mountian interstate (I-8 from san diego) hahaha. Went around a curve and saw rocks on the road, so i quickly steered around them but kinda over corrected my self and was tipping left ..the right..then left...it felt like only 2 tires were making contact and i was going to flip any moment ..but ESP saved me hahaha....reckless ..YES....so now i know the pat limits
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
I have put the ESP to the test and it works i was going 80-90 down hill on a curvy mountian interstate (I-8 from san diego) hahaha. Went around a curve and saw rocks on the road, so i quickly steered around them but kinda over corrected my self and was tipping left ..the right..then left...it felt like only 2 tires were making contact and i was going to flip any moment ..but ESP saved me hahaha....reckless ..YES....so now i know the pat limits
wow i bet you were sh*ttin your pants huh?

Thanks for the info guys. The ESP did go off one time but it was weird because it seemed like it shouldnt have. But does it also work on gravel too? The gravel we were recently on was weird because it was so loose the back end fishtailed a lil but the ESP didnt come on.
 
hell yeah it got my heart pumping....I speed through gravel roads when im in AZ, but never had the ESP come on...except when i drove through the sandy wash and it started to fishtail, then it came on.
 
I have a 60 inch hi lift if anyone is willing to test it. We'll figure out how far is to far. I bet we'll need a few strong guys after the jack gets to the top though. Here's a fun link if you're bored

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/cog/

But if I'm understanding you correctly, your fiancé thinks that because you are turning so fast the vehicle will tip onto its side? Really that's just someone being uninformed and verging on the edge of dumb. I'd have to go find it, but I'm pretty sure the Patriot has a roll over resistance rating of 4 out of 5 stars. They test this by doing a bunch of sharp turns at varying speeds and seeing how the vehicle reacts. The vast majority of vehicles on the road today are setup from the factory to understeer before anything worse happens. This includes the entire SRT line except for the Viper (yes I have driven them all). Understeer is typically more safe then an oversteer situation. Basically if you go into a turn to fast you will go straight and end up off the road or into oncoming traffic before the vehicle will tip. In the odd chance that you can get the vehicle to oversteer, say with lifting off the throttle when going into an offramp to fast, and a tire goes off the roadway, you will most likely roll the vehicle. However; it is extremely rare for modern vehicles to oversteer due to chassis design, tire setup and ESP. The last non-sports car that really ran the risk of this was the Lexus GX460. Consumer Reports "discovered" the "problem" and put the GX460 on the Don't Buy list. Toyota halted all sales and did a recall of the vehicle to change the stability program to "no-fun" mode. CR retested it and was happy with the fix and removed the GX460 from the naughty list.

Typically I go into turns in my TJ around 5 to 10 mph over the limit without much trouble. That thing is probably one of the tippiest stock vehicles on the road, it has a tiny little wheel base, 50/50 weight distribution and equal sized tires at all four corners. It has no ABS or ESP of any form and a very aggressive off road oriented rear differential. It should not understeer, but when pushed to the limit, even that starts pushing the front end around.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Whats the weight distribution on the MK?
 
Dumb question... is ESP the same as Electronic Roll Mitigation, and are those standard features on newer model non-FDII Pats?
Its part of the Electronic Stability Program. I had it on my 09, I assume it was standard on the 07 & 08 also.
 
From the 2011 Patriot Owners Manual (Rev. 5)
pg. 321

Electronic Roll Mitigation (ERM)
This system anticipates the potential for wheel lift by
monitoring the driver’s steering wheel input and the
speed of the vehicle. When ERM determines that the rate
of change of the steering wheel angle and vehicles speed
are sufficient to potentially cause wheel lift, it applies the
brake of the appropriate wheel and may also reduce
engine power to lessen the chance that wheel lift will
occur. ERM will only intervene during very severe or
evasive driving maneuvers.
ERM can only reduce the chance of wheel lift occurring
during severe or evasive driving maneuvers. It can not
prevent wheel lift due to other factors such as road
conditions, leaving the roadway or striking objects or
other vehicles.
NOTE: Anytime the ESC system is in the “Full Off”
mode, ERM is disabled. Refer to “Electronic Stability
Control (ESC)” in this section for a complete explanation
of the available ESC modes.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
thanks a ton for that post. i also thought the ESC or ERM is always on though. am i correct?
 
thanks a ton for that post. i also thought the ESC or ERM is always on though. am i correct?
No. With your 4x4 you have Full on, which is the default mode. It reverts to this anytime the Jeep is shut off and restarted. Partial off, which degrades the performance of the Traction Control System, allowing increased wheel spin, and Full Off, which de-activates ALL of the features of the Electronic Stability Program. (Up to 35 mph) In FDII models the BLD's, HDC and HSA functions will still operate. HSA MAY still function on FDI models, Im not sure. I didnt have that feature on my FDI.
 
But if I'm understanding you correctly, your fiancé thinks that because you are turning so fast the vehicle will tip onto its side? Really that's just someone being uninformed and verging on the edge of dumb.
May be you drive too fast or trying to impress and should slow down a notch. So you would not scare your girlfriend, I'm sure she would appreciate. May be she doesn't think you guys gonna roll over but just want you to know your are driving too fast for her taste...
 
Small hijack here...I saw the video you posted of this before. I was/am impressed Sandstone made it up and down that obstacle with such ease.. This photo looks like 6:50 in the video, and he makes it back up at 9:10


A Patriot near tipping?

Image



NAH!!! That rear tire went much higher after the photo was taken, not even close to rolling.
 
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