I'm not sure anyone knows. Maybe its just crazy expensive to get a motor emission certified and its not worth the cost. It's stupid. We need diesels. There are some Mercedes and VW's sold here with the diesel, and a lot of pickup trucks. That's about it

 

So you would think if an engine is already emissions certified say in a Mercedes or a VW then the same engine used in a Jeep would be permissible?

No wait....hang on....that would require common sense thinking from a Government Dept!!!!!:doh::icon_rolleyes:

 

Exactly. Maybe Mercedes and VW already paid fees to get the same motor certified in the US? Or maybe there is some weird emissions rule requiring purple glow plugs.... Who knows

 

I'm not sure how they rate emissions in other parts of the world, but in the us they shove a sniffer in the exhaust and take a reading.

They should take 10 gallons of fuel and rate the amount of work it can do for the amount of pollution it makes. For example: If a gas Patriot can drive 300 miles on 10 gallons and produce X amount of emissions, and a diesel Patriot can drive 450 miles on 10 Gallons but produces 4% (X+4) more pollutants, it would be better to drive diesel Patriots as they pollute less. The diesel Patriot would have to pollute 50%!!!!! more to be less efficient per amount of pollutant than the gas Patriot.

Since Patriots do actually get about 30 and 45 MPG respectively to the fuels consumed, these numbers are somewhat close.

 

Sometimes I swear it's just a big conspiracy. There really is no GOOD reason to not have the diesel Patriot here. Just like there is no good reason why diesel fuel is more expensive then gas. I remember trying to order a diesel liberty about a year or two before I bought the Patriot (and no dealers had any on the lots) and was told they stopped taking orders on them. Plus you couldn't get the diesel with a manual transmission.

 

The diesels that Jeep have used in the Patriot happen to both be made by VW [2.0CRD] and Mercedes [2.2CRD], so emissions shouldn't even come into it. I've read the reason USA [and AUS] not getting the diesel is just short supply of engines [strange considering how low Patriot sales are...]. Australia got the 2.0CRD initially, and we lost it altogether when they changed over to the 2.2CRD in European markets circa 09.

 

There is no good reason...and it is a conspiracy. U.S. officials are not convinced that diesel is the long term answer so, "let's just make the people's choice for them".

Some interesting info here:

http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/automobiles/2012-usa-diesel-cars.htm

 

Diesel engines are more expensive to produce and diesel is taxed higher than petrol. I'm on my way to an interview but I would like to see how long it takes to pay back the added cost of the diesel option. You see this math all the time with hybrids but I haven't seen it with diesel. I'm betting it is somewhere around 4 to 5 years

 

That Pat was sold as a cheap & cheerful entry level Jeep in both UK & USA . Adding a £2000 premium for the diesel engine didnt matter in the UK as the Brits are used to it & we are used to paying a Kings ransom for our fuel.
However it doesnt translate into a very good idea in USA . You dont have Diesel pumps at every filling station , selling highly refined ECO low sulpher diesel as we do , neither do you have a historic love affair with the diesel engine like Europe & for the last 15 yrs , the UK .
Americans like big cheap cars , & untill recently comfort & reliability was way more important than Economy .
Its a big ask to get a nation to pay a lot of money for what essentially is a cheap , small station wagon of questionable build quality , just because it has a diesel engine in it .

Other Inovations like Diesel Particulate Filters , Dual Mass flywheels on manual gear boxes , are throwing up problems on the this side of the pond .


The UK CRD Pat , was never sold with a DPF or DM Flywheel !!

 

However it doesnt translate into a very good idea in USA . You dont have Diesel pumps at every filling station , selling highly refined ECO low sulpher diesel as we do , neither do you have a historic love affair with the diesel engine like Europe & for the last 15 yrs , the UK

Here we have gas stations in every corner, and every other one sells diesel. In big cities you may need to drive and extra mile or 2 to get diesel, but in rural areas and on highways every single station sells diesel. As far as the love affair, it hasn't been available. Everyone I know with a diesel is very happy with it, but the only way to buy one right now is in a pickup truck or a Volkswagen or Mercedes, and none of those are a vehicle I want or need. Tractor-trailers only run on diesel, so the infrastructure is already here.

I'd gladly spend 30-35k for a diesel SUV, and at that point I would be looking at a midsized SUV. More room and decent economy

 

Found a 2009 popular mechanics article on this. Not sure if it is still relevant.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/diesel/4330313

The 50-state light-duty vehicle limit for emissions of nitrogen oxides is 0.07 grams per mile. In Western Europe, the limit is 0.29. Reducing NOx to nitrogen and oxygen is much harder with a diesel engine because the exhaust is typically cooler and contains less oxygen compared to a gas engine. To meet U.S. regulations, diesel engines are required to use complicated--and expensive--high-pressure fuel injection and after-treatment systems that in some cases inject an aqueous urea solution to handle the NOx. The added expense of course means an even longer payback period for the consumer.

 

Diesels are dead to me at the moment ... Diesel cars are expensive , Diesel fuel is expensive , I dont do the mileage to get my money back !!

I'm going to stick to Petrol with auto gear boxes for a while yet !!

( But stick me on a forecourt full of good used cars & I could change my mind in Miliseconds )

 

as i can see,the discussions derailed a little.
the topic was why the diesel pat would not meet us emission standards(not what would be more economical).
to be honest,i don't know.
but i have a feeling it has to do with governmental beaurocracy.
why do i say that? well,because if you look at simple facts and at the technology level the diesel has risen too nowadays,you realize that,in fact,the diesel is far less a poluting source than the petrol (gas) engines.
i won't jump straight to the recent bluetech diesel engines,that have extremely low emissions and are using mostly biodiesel fuel,but i will just state simple facts:
i drive a 2.0 crd vw-audi powered pat equipped with DPF (Diesel Particle Filter).
if you put your finger inside the tailpipe,you will pull it out as clean or maybe just a little dusted,but not wit black ashes from smoke.why?because there is NO smoke coming out of the exhaust.when i say no smoke,i mean at idle and when stepping on the pedal.
in my country,the inspection (like the british MOT,only more strict and severe) is done every two years.last year i did my first for the pat. as they got to the smoke test they usually do for diesels,they put the sensor in and when the technician stepped on the gas he was amazed no smoke was coming out.when he realized it was a DPF,he said it should be tested only for CO and emissions,but not for smoke.
so again i say that maybe there is no interest in diesels for other reasons.
economy stands as long as you rack up a lot of miles.so does engine liftime,as the diesel could peerform better in the long run.
if you drive short distances and not every day,not really that big a difference.
but you just gotta love the sound and momentum of the diesel engine.

 

I know my previous post was more of a science experiment, but the short answer to the question is that the US doesn't measure emissions correctly or rationally.

 

Like everything else here, it's measured politically so what's the problem? :doh:

 

The VW 2.0 CRD/ TDI is already used in the US in the Jetta/Golf. It has a DPF.

I do not see what the problem is with using it here in the Pat/Compass.

Maybe once fuel gets to $5.00/gal?

Then again, maybe the idea would not fly, price-wise. (ie: the 2007/08 Grand Cherokee CRD that didn't sell so well...)

 

New diesel Patriots only made sense for high mileage drivers in countries where fuel is expensive or for drivers who needed extra torque. However, they are excellent second hand buys because someone else has paid the $4000 diesel engine premium.

I don't know how expensive diesel is in North America but I bet it would take a good few miles to offset that $4000 hit. That's why it was never introduced there, imho.

ps - I would love to know what that $4000 extra was paying for.

Dave

 

We have a DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) tank on our trucks at work, you fill it with two 2.5 gallon jugs that cost $20 each or $8 each if you get it by the pallet. They are working on getting DEF pumps at some of the truck stops but haven't yet at any I visit.

The DEF is a fluid (cow pee) that is injected into the exhaust stream to reduce pollutants, not really sure which ones. A 5 gallon tank of DEF lasts about 4 fuel fill ups but if you run out the engine derates and you can't drive. We try to top off every other fill up to avoid that.

So on top of $4.09 to $4.25 a gallon diesel costs you have to add that in to the mix as well. Not sure if they would even try this with diesel automobiles, seems like a great way to ensure a poor public reception. Plus all those plastic jugs sitting on top of gas station trash cans (two or more won't fit) and all the pollution associated with manufacturing and delivering them....

 

Mercedes already uses DEF in several cars/SUVs. All their "Bluetec" diesels.

But, the VW 2.0 TDI does not use a DEF.