[Sarkus]

If it wasn't a stuck gasket,
A couple possibilities,
You grabbed the wrong filter off the shelf?
Or someone switched filters in the box? Intentionally or accidentally

As I said earlier, I verified that it was a TG10060 on the box and on the filter itself. The only possibilty at this point would be that the filter itself was mislabeled and mispackaged, but I haven't looked at another 10060 to see if it looks different.

That all said, would the filters be notably different in shape but both still theoretically work? I'm not up enough on filters to know if they should all be pretty much the same or if there are different shapes the end that screws on could have that would all still work.

 

[SREJECT]

I do the same thing on my Lebaron with it's 3.0L V6, I found a similar but LARGER oil filter and use that one for a little extra filter material and oil capacity. I'll have to find a photo to share soon. Fits perfectly and have been using it that way for several years now.

 

[Jeep#2]

I love the " don't buy Fram" responses. You actually think buying a fancy filter makes any difference in a daily driven car that gets scheduled oil changes?

Nope. They all do the same thing, filter all the oil sent to them. They would never go into bypass in normal conditions. So again, no point.

Actually filters that "brag" that they filter down to XX micron may do more harm than good, they slightly restrict oil flow, and can plug up faster on a neglected engine, going into bypass mode and filtering nothing.

So stay with oem or any filter, like Fram, don't waste you money on boutique filters, they net nothing "we'll, they do lighten your wallet of all that extra cash"


This post seems to be a one off issue with a filter, hopefully the OP will post pics of the filter because we all know what a 10060 looks like and we may see the issue. Then all he had to to is get a different one.

 

[NHPATRIOT]

I love the " don't buy Fram" responses. You actually think buying a fancy filter makes any difference in a daily driven car that gets scheduled oil changes?

Nope. They all do the same thing, filter all the oil sent to them. They would never go into bypass in normal conditions. So again, no point.

Actually filters that "brag" that they filter down to XX micron may do more harm than good, they slightly restrict oil flow, and can plug up faster on a neglected engine, going into bypass mode and filtering nothing.

So stay with oem or any filter, like Fram, don't waste you money on boutique filters, they net nothing "we'll, they do lighten your wallet of all that extra cash"


This post seems to be a one off issue with a filter, hopefully the OP will post pics of the filter because we all know what a 10060 looks like and we may see the issue. Then all he had to to is get a different one.

You can waste money buying an inferior product that costs the same or even more than the same product from another mfg that is higher quality as well. Fram filters are cheaply constructed and cost just as much as or even more than other filters made better. There is no reason to use a Fram filter ever. I will exclude the new Fram Ultra's from that statement even though I wouldn't use them.

I always love the "Fram filters are fine" posts as much as you seem to enjoy the don't buy them posts. My personal experience, both using them and selling them, tells me otherwise. JUNK!

People don't say to avoid Fram's because of filtering rates. They say to do so because of inferior components used to build them. Cardboard end caps, media that is poorly glued together with fewer pleats, thin can, cheapass ADBV, etc... Why would I ever buy a Fram when I can get a Wix or a MOPAR or a Purolator or a "insert name" filter for the same or less money that is made so much better?

 

[NHPATRIOT]

Warranty issue because you use better filtration... LOL:smiley_thumbs_up:

No, warranty issues because you did not use the correct filter by application. While it may not ultimately cause a loss of warranty repair it can at the least lead to an initial denial and then YOU get to fight to prove it didn't cause the issue to get it covered.

I have worked dealer service and trust me using the wrong filter on the vehicle, even if it fits, is something that will be jumped on if you have a problem.

Wait until you are out of warranty coverage to do that.

 

[alainsrt4]

BTW you know why our jeep use ATF-4 in manual tranny? I will tell you, to save money like this the dealer keep one oil in the garage for any tranny. I got some friends in SRT Engineer... Same for none synthetic fluid for diff... lol Now do what you want but I got 100% synthetic Redline 75w90 in my diff and manuel tranny fluid Redline MT-90 trans fluid and my jeep did not explode yet.

 

[motorking]

On Thursday (yesterday) I took my '09 Patriot 4wd 2.4l down to my mechanic/friend to have a few things done and checked out, including an oil/filter change. I purchased the filter and oil the other day, choosing a Fram TG10060 filter. This is listed as compatible by both O'Reilly and Autozone's website, Autozone's store guide, and Walmart's computer terminal in the autoparts section.

We installed the filter but when the car was turned on, oil sprayed all over - it was coming from between the filter and the pan. We checked the tightness but it was on as tight as it would go. My friend removed the Fram filter and compared it to the Napa filter we'd taken off and concluded that they were not the same. The relative heights of the contact rings were different between the filters.

Down at the nearest Napa we got a Napa Gold filter, 7060 series, which Napa's website confirms is correct for the '09 Patriot. That was installed with no issues.

Everything I've checked says the Fram 10060 series filters are supposed to work on the Patriot. I verified that the filter was a 10060 filter (in case it got swapped in the box) - and it did say 10060 on the actual filter. But I agree with my friend that the ends don't look the same between the Napa and the Fram.

Anyone have any idea what happened here? I guess I can't rule out that the Fram was simply defective, nor have I had a chance to look at another Fram 10060 to make sure it looks the same as the one I got, but I find it very odd, to say the least.

Good Morning,
I am the Tech Director at FRAM. Hard to speculate what the problem is but we would like to see the filter. You can mail it to me and I will send you back a case of FRAM Ultra filters for your jeep in return and post results in this forum from the findings. Or, you can call 800-890-2075 and file a quality claim with FRAM. they will send you a kit to mail in the filter, test it in our lab and report the results back to you. If it is defective you will be reimbursed for parts and labor. Your choice. If you mail it to me, just contact me at jay.buckley@framgrp.com for the mailing address. Sorry about the problem, would like to help get it solved.

 

[Jeep#2]

You can waste money buying an inferior product that costs the same or even more than the same product from another mfg that is higher quality as well. Fram filters are cheaply constructed and cost just as much as or even more than other filters made better. There is no reason to use a Fram filter ever. I will exclude the new Fram Ultra's from that statement even though I wouldn't use them.

I always love the "Fram filters are fine" posts as much as you seem to enjoy the don't buy them posts. My personal experience, both using them and selling them, tells me otherwise. JUNK!

People don't say to avoid Fram's because of filtering rates. They say to do so because of inferior components used to build them. Cardboard end caps, media that is poorly glued together with fewer pleats, thin can, cheapass ADBV, etc... Why would I ever buy a Fram when I can get a Wix or a MOPAR or a Purolator or a "insert name" filter for the same or less money that is made so much better?

Your basing bashing Fram on 10 year old data, oh and you run Royal Purple. Guess you missed all the oil analysis that said not to use that.

Show me a Fram that failed in service, any? Come on, any, in the last say 5 years. Any? That was not caused by improper installation or abuse.

I personally have over 2 million (yes million) miles on cars I maintain, never has one had an issue with Fram, or an oil consumption issue.

Our fleet where I work, service vehicles, all get Fram filters, (over 150 gas powered , 40 natural gas powered, and all using Fram. Not seeing what your saying.

Sure, they may use cheaper end cap on the media, but does cheaper mean bad? Not if it does the job for its service life. So what if it had rare earth 4 kept itilian psi capability, if its pretty, doesn't make it better for the job.

Fram tests the hell out of thier filters, they work, period. And because the outsell everyone else combined, well your going to hear things.

Put it this way, if Purolator sells 50 filters and Fram sells 5 million, 5 Frams fail and 1 Purolator does. Who going to get the bad rap, Fram, not because the filters are bad, just sheer volume. But in reality,Purolator has a higher failure rate than Fram, but no one hears about it cause its suce a small group and they tend to rabidly defend thier choice.

Buy what you want, it's your car, just don't think your getting anything your car can tell is better, your not.

 

[NHPATRIOT]

Your basing bashing Fram on 10 year old data, oh and you run Royal Purple. Guess you missed all the oil analysis that said not to use that.

Show me a Fram that failed in service, any? Come on, any, in the last say 5 years. Any? That was not caused by improper installation or abuse.

I personally have over 2 million (yes million) miles on cars I maintain, never has one had an issue with Fram, or an oil consumption issue.

Our fleet where I work, service vehicles, all get Fram filters, (over 150 gas powered , 40 natural gas powered, and all using Fram. Not seeing what your saying.

Sure, they may use cheaper end cap on the media, but does cheaper mean bad? Not if it does the job for its service life. So what if it had rare earth 4 kept itilian psi capability, if its pretty, doesn't make it better for the job.

Fram tests the hell out of thier filters, they work, period. And because the outsell everyone else combined, well your going to hear things.

Put it this way, if Purolator sells 50 filters and Fram sells 5 million, 5 Frams fail and 1 Purolator does. Who going to get the bad rap, Fram, not because the filters are bad, just sheer volume. But in reality,Purolator has a higher failure rate than Fram, but no one hears about it cause its suce a small group and they tend to rabidly defend thier choice.

Buy what you want, it's your car, just don't think your getting anything your car can tell is better, your not.

Thanks for the lecture but you will never convince me to run Fram oil filters. I will use their air filters, PCV's, etc... but never an oil filter again( not until I see a change ). I have had an engine failure due to Fram oil filters so you can holler and berate me all you want. I have seen it. May have been a few years ago but modern day Fram oil filters are no better. Actually, I think the older Fram's were better. I also have common sense and can look at the quality of the components used to make them and see they are not high quality( standard filters not the new Ultra ).

Guess you missed all the UOA's I have done over the years that show me RP works great. So where are all these bad UOA's you are talking about that show RP is bad? I would dearly love to read them. If you mean on BITOG your comments are complete and utter rubbish as bad UOA's of RP there just are not to be found. So where are these bad results you speak of so I can see them?

You assume an awful lot in your posts.

I never told you to not use Fram either. Run what you want. I agree.

 

[motorking]

Thanks for the lecture but you will never convince me to run Fram oil filters. I will use their air filters, PCV's, etc... but never an oil filter again( not until I see a change ). I have had an engine failure due to Fram oil filters so you can holler and berate me all you want. I have seen it. May have been a few years ago but modern day Fram oil filters are no better. Actually, I think the older Fram's were better. I also have common sense and can look at the quality of the components used to make them and see they are not high quality( standard filters not the new Ultra ).

Guess you missed all the UOA's I have done over the years that show me RP works great. So where are all these bad UOA's you are talking about that show RP is bad? I would dearly love to read them. If you mean on BITOG your comments are complete and utter rubbish as bad UOA's of RP there just are not to be found. So where are these bad results you speak of so I can see them?

You assume an awful lot in your posts.

I never told you to not use Fram either. Run what you want. I agree.

You should really take some time to actually learn about filtration. Steel end caps do not make a filter a better filter. AC Delco, Honda, Subaru, Bentley, Nissan all use fiber end caps. Guess you know more about what a good oil filter is that the engineers at those companies. Mann and Hummel make filters with only glue as the end cap and Toyota OE filter have no end cap at all. FRAM Ultra filters are , quite simply the very best oil filter you can buy at a bargain price compared to those that are remotely comparable on capacity and efficiency. FRAM stands behind it products 110%, if a FRAM filter ever caused a failure of en engine you are covered plain and simple. BTW- FRAM owns the company making Mopar filters too.

 

[cmoore]

Are we just the special forum that is peppered with company professionals.... Feeling facetious....


Sent from AutoGuide.com App

 

[NHPATRIOT]

You should really take some time to actually learn about filtration. Steel end caps do not make a filter a better filter. AC Delco, Honda, Subaru, Bentley, Nissan all use fiber end caps. Guess you know more about what a good oil filter is that the engineers at those companies. Mann and Hummel make filters with only glue as the end cap and Toyota OE filter have no end cap at all. FRAM Ultra filters are , quite simply the very best oil filter you can buy at a bargain price compared to those that are remotely comparable on capacity and efficiency. FRAM stands behind it products 110%, if a FRAM filter ever caused a failure of en engine you are covered plain and simple. BTW- FRAM owns the company making Mopar filters too.

Ah yes, the infamous Fram internet shill motorking. I know all about you from another site where you are the same pain in the tuckuss and exhibit the same poor reading comprehension as you have here. I get it that you work for Fram so you feel the need to defend them but you really go too far at times and do more harm for their image than good. Stick to posting help for those who need it. Take a lesson from member JeepCares on how to represent a company on a message forum.

Few points...

I never said anything about filtration/filtration rating. I never said a metal end cap makes it filter better either( although it sure does make it a better filter quality wise ). I commented on the cheap components Fram uses to make their filters( one exception - see below ).

I never said Fram didn't stand behind their product; EVER. Again, you are bringing up things I didn't say. I didn't even blame the OP's failure on it being a Fram oil filter. I did say a possible mfg'ing defect but that can happen to any company and if that is the case I don't think it is a "Fram" issue. Just crap happening.

I don't claim to know everything but I know enough about your filters to know I won't use them. CHEAP components = CHEAP filter. You can try and compare your garbage products to those other brands because they use similar materials if it makes you feel better. What it comes down to though is the quality of that material and the quality of the construction. Saying Fram oil filters are in the same league as some of those filters you mention is absurd.

I said the Ultra was a decent filter. Not sure why you need to bring them up. I didn't include them in my comments and specifically mentioned they were ok. I disagree with your price vs quality claim but it is not worth pursing. As I said I will use your air filters, PCV's, even your fuel filters. But never an oil filter again. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

This one definitely needs to be addressed. What a load of horse apples you are shoveling when talking about Fram owning the company making MOPAR oil filters. Just because Fram bought Champion Labs it doesn't mean they can take credit for all of the filters being made there. They just bought a company that makes filters and it was recently to boot. They haven't been there the whole time designing and building the filters. Just more laughable assetions by you.

Champion Labs makes oil filters to the spec's asked for/agreed to by those other companies unless that has changed since the purchase. It isn't a case of Fram making a filter and then all these other companies just relabeling them like a Napa Gold being a relabeled Wix. Sure that can happen but it isn't all filters. There are a lot of filters made by Champion Labs that would be severely degraded if they were remade to Fram spec's or just relabeled Fram oil filters. I shudder to think that my preferred filter( not MOPAR )becomes a Fram in disguise instead of a filter made by a company Fram owns that is made to the purchasing company's spec's..

If the day ever came when a MOPAR filter, or any filter I would use, was just a relabeled Fram I would never use it. I also am closely monitoring the overall quality of the filter brands I use that come from Champion Labs to make sure that Fram's poor quality doesn't leak down to them. If it does I will move to another brand ASAP.

Now, go peddle your bull elsewhere please. By all means help the OP out however. Your offer to do so and the offer for the free case of Ultra filters is very generous and you deserve credit for that. Why you couldn't just leave it at that though is beyond me. Again, learn from JeepCares on how to conduct yourself.

EDIT - I am putting you( motorking )on ignore. I don't want to waste my time nor muddy up the forums with responding to your bull hooey. I only did this once as I refuse to let you berate me unanswered at least once. If you wish to respond to this do so via PM. Let's not( and I include me in that )ruin the OP's thread further.

 

[DangerAaron]

I used to use Fram oil filters all the time. When I got my Mitsu Evo, the filter called out in the Fram filter guide would not even screw on to the oil filter adapter on the engine. I took it back to the auto parts store and got another. Same thing. Went back the guy behind the counter gave me a purolator and asked me to try it. It fit and worked. Then I traded the speedster on an Outlander with a V6. Different engine, same story. No more frams for me. I hear others say they suck, others say they are good. I am of the opinion that with regular changes, all the standard oil filters are pretty much the same, and premium oil filters are like K&N and Mobil 1 super whatsit are a waste of my money at three times the cost. However, having Fram filters that are listed in their guide as fitting my vehicle only to have them not even go on, raises concern with me. If they can't get their guide right, what else is going wrong? I usually go with Napa gold from Napa or a Purolater from autozone or advanced.

 

[DryCreek]

Well, almost.

I love the " don't buy Fram" responses. You actually think buying a fancy filter makes any difference in a daily driven car that gets scheduled oil changes?

So stay with oem or any filter, like Fram, don't waste you money on boutique filters, they net nothing "we'll, they do lighten your wallet of all that extra cash"

Almost correct. Standard Fram filters are substandard. Take a look at the "Oil Filter Study" and see for yourself. Those crappy Fram filters have cardboard end caps where the paper filter media is glued to them. Cut one of those open after 3K miles and you will see how the cardboard has already started to separate. So, while you might not have bypass flow from a faulty internal relief, you will have bypass flow as the cardboard melts away in time.

I used to only trust the Fram filters myself until someone told me about their poor construction. We cut one open* and they proved their point. They are a joke. Now, I only use OEM Mopar filters that I buy from the dealer. They are the same price as the ones I have found at WalMart at O'Reilly Auto Parts. That should satisfy any questions that come up on the Lifetime Powertrain Warranty on the '08 Patriot or the Lifetime Added Care Plus warranty we purchased for the 300. For our trucks I only buy Fleetguard (Cummins Filtration) after watching a canister split on a friends pulling truck (AC-Delco).

Hey, it's your engine. Run what you want.

* ETA - filter cut open after it had been in use ('78 Dodge Power Wagon, 360 c.i.d.). Yes, there was evidence that the ends had curled and the elements were starting to be bypassed. I spent 6 years in the Navy as a Machinist Mate, and currently work in the power generation field. I know what a bad filter looks like. Cardboard, no matter what "magical" treatments they may apply, doesn't like extended immersion in hot, pressurized oil.

 

[DryCreek]

Mopar/Purolator?

If the day ever came when a MOPAR filter, or any filter I would use, was just a relabeled Fram I would never use it. I also am closely monitoring the overall quality of the filter brands I use that come from Champion Labs to make sure that Fram's poor quality doesn't leak down to them. If it does I will move to another brand ASAP.

The Mopar filters I buy from the dealer look different than the ones at WalMart. The ones from the dealer (as I recall) look almost exactly like the Purolator L12222 filter, including the oblong holes in the bottom plate.

When we owned a Saturn, I was shocked to find that their OEM filters were made by Allied-Signal (Fram's owner back then). I used WIX filters after I discovered that.

 

[alainsrt4]

http://www.300cforums.com/forums/ge...ums/general-discussion-issues-trouble-shooting/31190-oil-filters-dissected.html

 

[NHPATRIOT]

The Mopar filters I buy from the dealer look different than the ones at WalMart. The ones from the dealer (as I recall) look almost exactly like the Purolator L12222 filter, including the oblong holes in the bottom plate.

When we owned a Saturn, I was shocked to find that their OEM filters were made by Allied-Signal (Fram's owner back then). I used WIX filters after I discovered that.

Some MOPAR oil filters are made by Champion Labs and some by Purolator.