[Sarkus]

In THAT regard, I agree with you. Jeep is abandoning the lowest-common-denominator portion of the market by quitting the MK platform. But please understand, the Patriot, for all its utilitarian charm and charming utility, is a lowest-common-denominator vehicle. And Jeep doesn't want to be associated with that image anymore.

I don't think we can say they are abandoning the bottom of the market until we see what the replacement is and what its priced at. The Cherokee is priced right in the middle of the standard SUV crowd of Subaru, Toyota, Ford, etc. The Renegade is right in that wheelhouse as well, but that is an intentional decision by Jeep. It makes little sense for Jeep to produce yet another compact SUV in the same price point, and yet we know something is coming. My guess is that it will still be the cheapest Jeep.

 

[12PatriotCVT]

If I was in Britain I would buy a Nissan / Renault product. If NR Alliance has poor network then go with German reluctantly. I used to like German. Junk now.

 

[O'DubhGhaill]

They may be 1%ers but outlaws are bikers and that is who the word 'biker' has been associated with for some time. It's also in the dictionary ' Informal. a member of a motorcycle gang' along with 'a person who rides a bicycle, motorcycle, or motorbike, especially in competition or as a hobby.' To distinguish between the two it is better to say enthusiast than biker so that the bad boy stereo type isn't imagined by the other person. I have been around enough enthusiasts and met a few ex Hell's Angels and they all say the same thing. If you are not part of one of the motorcycle gangs then you are not a biker. You are an enthusiast. People wish they they were some badass biker when really they are a ignorant pansy wanna be trying to live out this fantasy. It isn't until they have a run in with the bikers that they figure out that they are no biker. I like motorcycles and wouldn't mind having another one. But I sure as heck am not about to call myself a biker when I am not.

Lecture over? Whatever terminology works for you out there in AZ, I could care less. Here, a biker is a person who rides a motorcycle, generally, religiously. An outlaw biker is a 1%er, a motorcycle gang member. Enthusiast? Around here, that would get you laughed at (or worse) either with the bikers in front of Starbucks or with the outlaw bikers at whatever place you might find yourself unlucky enough to be with at the same time. You use your terms, I'll use mine - I left that world behind some time ago partly because of petty nomenclature bull**** like this. Live to ride, ride to live, yawn, I'll take my Pat/cage thank you very much.

Now back to the regularly scheduled Jeep Renegade programming.

 

[rcguymike]

Saw one at the dealer the other day my wife said it had a cute butt...:doh:

 

[nth256]

I don't think we can say they are abandoning the bottom of the market until we see what the replacement is and what its priced at. The Cherokee is priced right in the middle of the standard SUV crowd of Subaru, Toyota, Ford, etc. The Renegade is right in that wheelhouse as well, but that is an intentional decision by Jeep. It makes little sense for Jeep to produce yet another compact SUV in the same price point, and yet we know something is coming. My guess is that it will still be the cheapest Jeep.

Short of producing something smaller than a Renegade, I can't really see how they'd be able to punch lower into the market. I mean, its entirely possible, but really, how likely?

Something lower-spec than the Renegade would have to be a smaller platform, or less capable. I dunno, maybe a mini-Renegade based on the Fiat 500? Something about the size of a Suzuki Samurai? I guess it's possible...

I was reading on Allpar about the Renegade's driveline manufacturer; they say their system is scalable up and down depending on vehicle requirements.

 

[nysfro585]

I said Italy, I didn't say I minded a dollar going to Germany, and I'm buying it in the UK for use in the UK.

Im with you on this one. But i only buy American built jeep and cars. I dont buy imports. I see it as a honda with jeep stickers on it that say jeep.

 

[nysfro585]

Short of producing something smaller than a Renegade, I can't really see how they'd be able to punch lower into the market. I mean, its entirely possible, but really, how likely?

Something lower-spec than the Renegade would have to be a smaller platform, or less capable. I dunno, maybe a mini-Renegade based on the Fiat 500? Something about the size of a Suzuki Samurai? I guess it's possible...

I was reading on Allpar about the Renegade's driveline manufacturer; they say their system is scalable up and down depending on vehicle requirements.

If you think of it. What is the cost to ship a car around the world vs a drain 7 state away. 1 ship can only have some much room in it. Say 10,000 jeep on a boat to the same harbor vs 10,000 trained to the same place. What one will get there 10,000 quota there faster and cheaper.

 

[rcguymike]

I dunno, maybe a mini-Renegade based on the Fiat 500?

Renegade is already on the fiat 500 chassis?

 

[nth256]

Renegade is already on the fiat 500 chassis?

Nah, its on the 500X platform:

This is the 500/500C (which is what I was guessing a sub-Renegade would be based off of):

And just for grins, this is the 500L/500L+:

They're all technically different platforms, even though they're similar in size, and share many components. Early on in the planning stages, the Renegade was supposed to be based of the 500L, but then they decided to create a new platform (the 500X) and make a Fiat version as well.

 

[milspectees]

Renegade is already on the fiat 500 chassis?

Yes it is, (500X) and the Patriot is on the Mitsubishi G3 platform

 

[milspectees]

Im with you on this one. But i only buy American built jeep and cars. I dont buy imports. I see it as a honda with jeep stickers on it that say jeep.

I agree. When I replace thePatriot and the WK2 I have in Florida, I'll buy American

 

[rcguymike]

Nah, its on the 500X platform:
http://www.allpar.com/photos/fiat/500/500X/car.jpg

This is the 500/500C (which is what I was guessing a sub-Renegade would be based off of):
http://www.allpar.com/photos/fiat/500/sport.jpg

And just for grins, this is the 500L/500L+:
http://www.allpar.com/photos/fiat/500L/side-view.jpg

They're all technically different platforms, even though they're similar in size, and share many components. Early on in the planning stages, the Renegade was supposed to be based of the 500L, but then they decided to create a new platform (the 500X) and make a Fiat version as well.

You can't link images off allpar...idk y, but yeah just basically an extended 4 door 500:
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/fiat-500x-vs-500l-vs-500-italian-family-comparison-87556.html

 

[nth256]

You can't link images off allpar...idk y, but yeah just basically and extended 4 door 500:
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/fiat-500x-vs-500l-vs-500-italian-family-comparison-87556.html

Weird, the images show up for me...

Actually the 500X chassis is more rugged than the the typical 500 design. This was Jeep's requirement for sharing the platform.

 

[Sarkus]

Short of producing something smaller than a Renegade, I can't really see how they'd be able to punch lower into the market. I mean, its entirely possible, but really, how likely?

Something lower-spec than the Renegade would have to be a smaller platform, or less capable. I dunno, maybe a mini-Renegade based on the Fiat 500? Something about the size of a Suzuki Samurai? I guess it's possible...

I was reading on Allpar about the Renegade's driveline manufacturer; they say their system is scalable up and down depending on vehicle requirements.

You are making the mistake of thinking the Renegade is priced as low as they could make it - its not. Jeep said a long time ago that Renegade is not expected to be a mass seller in the US, so they are pricing it high to maximize profits on it. Last I read they thought they'd sell maybe 50k a year of them, which is equivalent to Compass and about half of Patriot. Its meant to be a niche vehicle here because it was designed to be a mass seller outside of the US where smaller SUVs do much better. The MK replacement will almost certainly be at least the same size, if not a bit bigger since Jeep considers Renegade a "sub compact" and the MKs "compact" vehicles.

So what I'm saying is that if they produce a MK replacement that like MK is based on another platform (Dart, Renegade, whatever) and produced in the same plant like MK as its sister car (building it alongside Dart in Belvedere) then they can make a relatively inexpensive vehicle. They are already producing the likely engine - Tigershark 4cyl and transmission - 9 speed auto - for other vehicles so its really not going to be a super expensive vehicle to design and put into production. Its going to be a derivative vehicle, just like the MKs.

 

[nth256]

You are making the mistake of thinking the Renegade is priced as low as they could make it - its not. Jeep said a long time ago that Renegade is not expected to be a mass seller in the US, so they are pricing it high to maximize profits on it. Last I read they thought they'd sell maybe 50k a year of them, which is equivalent to Compass and about half of Patriot. Its meant to be a niche vehicle here because it was designed to be a mass seller outside of the US where smaller SUVs do much better. The MK replacement will almost certainly be at least the same size, if not a bit bigger since Jeep considers Renegade a "sub compact" and the MKs "compact" vehicles.

So what I'm saying is that if they produce a MK replacement that like MK is based on another platform (Dart, Renegade, whatever) and produced in the same plant like MK as its sister car (building it alongside Dart in Belvedere) then they can make a relatively inexpensive vehicle. They are already producing the likely engine - Tigershark 4cyl and transmission - 9 speed auto - for other vehicles so its really not going to be a super expensive vehicle to design and put into production. Its going to be a derivative vehicle, just like the MKs.

Okay, this makes sense.

So, insofar as the US market is concerned, the Renegade was designed as a hold-over until a true MK replacement can be created, right? I heard the Cherokee was in the same position - here for now to fill a sales gap, but not designed to be a long-term solution. I would think idea of pushing stop-gap models would be more costly then it's worth, but then, I don't work for FCA...

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[breadtruck]

If the Trailhawk version was cheaper, I would seriously consider getting one. I kinda dig the funky look. I especially like the "My Sky" option.

https://youtu.be/EInN6qREGoE

Every Jeep should come with that. Its the one thing Id love to have a Wrangler for.

 

[nth256]

I've thought about doing a sliding ragtop like the Liberty, or even an old school one with snaps. I do like that feature on the Renegade.

 

[Sarkus]

Okay, this makes sense.

So, insofar as the US market is concerned, the Renegade was designed as a hold-over until a true MK replacement can be created, right? I heard the Cherokee was in the same position - here for now to fill a sales gap, but not designed to be a long-term solution. I would think idea of pushing stop-gap models would be more costly then it's worth, but then, I don't work for FCA...

Thanks for clearing that up!

I'm not sure where you got the idea that they are "stop gap" models. The FCA 5 year presentation last May showed the Cherokee is hear to stay, with an entirely normal refresh coming around year four or five. The Renegade is viewed by Jeep as a new vehicle in a new class, not a stop gap. The decision (made years ago) to replace the Compass and Patriot with a single model isn't related to Renegade at all, other than in the sense that they probably wanted to make sure the number of vehicles in the lineup stayed the same and didn't shrink.

 

[Mtny]

We have the Commando and Mojave colors in the Sport FWD trim at my dealer.....and they're kinda ugly in person. IMO, Commando has more green in it than what it shows on the jeep website and sorry if it ruins it for anyone but it really looks like uke:

 

[elenners]

So if Jeep can snag customers who would have been looking at a competitors vehicle, how is that a bad thing. Regardless of whether any of us would buy it, the fact jeep is making a sale they would have otherwise not is good now matter how you slice it.

I didn't say it was a good or bad thing. I just said that I agreed with his assessment that it's for a younger crowd.

To me, it's also a laughably hideous vehicle and I don't see why anyone'd buy it. All the ugly tackiness of Chrysler's line has been fixed (the new 200 looks good!!), but now they're passing it on to Jeep. The Renegade and Cherokee are just really wtf looking to me.