Spark plugs?

Or the coil overs, wires associated with them.

That is where I's go first.

 

I agree would start with plugs,
Also would try adding some fuel additive cleaner,
A few treatments to clean up the fuel system just in case.
2009 shouldn't have a dirty intake, but can also try cleaning out the throTtle body.

 

Changed the spark plugs today (really easy job because of the how to).
The old plugs were gapped 0,55. The new ones came out of the box 0,35 so I changed them to 0,45.
Did a little testdrive and did notice a difference, the stutter at 1700 rpm is definitely less. Not totally away but less.
Also bought a bottle fuel injector cleaner (Wynn's) and will add this next time I fill her up with fuel.
Still during low rpm's (1200-1500) and accalerating there is a (big) stutter in second gear. Although this was with a cold engine. It is simulair as a car with hand choke and you switch off the choke to early.

 

Next up for me if I was certain the fuel was good would be to replace the fuel filter.

 

Thanks Metaxa.
First I will see what the fuel injector cleaner does otherwise I will replace the fuel filter.
It's inside the tank, isn't it? Probably not so easy job?

 

According to the workshop manual the fuel filter is inside the housing of the fuel pump and therefore not servicable???
Will throw in fuel injector cleaner tomorrow, see what it will do.
I noticed that the stutter is less when the car is cold. Probably because the choke is on at that moment (engine makes more rpm at idle). When the engine is warm, there is more stutter, so I am guessing it is because of a lack of sufficient fuel.

 

Did put a bottle of Wynn's fuel injector cleaner in the tank today. If it helps, how long would it take to notice?
Also ordered a PCV valve yesterday, which I will replace when it has arrived. Just to be sure.
Noticed that the stutter is especially in second gear (mt) when accelerating after braking/slowing down to take a corner.

 

If this is really a dirty fuel system issue try Techron additive. I've used it in my Saturn and it works at cleaning the throttle body and Air Intake Conrol valve so I'm sure it's cleaning all the other components also.

http://www.amazon.com/Chevron-Techron-System-Cleaner-65740/dp/B00092893E

Try driving at highway speeds as much as possible. It seems to me that accelerated the process.

 

This happened to me a couple weeks ago and I thought nothing of it, until it happened again other day.

While searching through some old Dodge Performance mod material written by Speedtweaks, they described a similar situation, but called it Bucking / Surging:

"..this issue is caused by reaching the high RPM fuel shut off rev limit before the transmission can shift into the next higher gear and is likely to occur with High Electrical Loads. During high current demands, the generator may emit electrical noise that can affect the transmission governor pressure sensor output. If this occurs, the transmission may not shift properly to the next higher gear under (WOT) Wide Open Throttle acceleration conditions and therefore reach the fuel shut off rev limiter. This may be seen most often between the 2-3 shifts, but can also be experienced between the 1-2 shifts."

The whole document including how to fix it (on older dodges) can be found here:
http://bionicdodge.com/Download/Speedtweaks%20Tips%20And%20Tricks.pdf

Like you, this happened to me when accelerating, taking a corner. Also, I generally have the blower own high (cause it's Hot/Warm here), both the Radar detector and ScanGaugeII plugged in, along with my dash elements on the brightest setting, not to mention a tune with more advanced ignition timing.

I don't think it's a coincidence that I also just had to replace my battery because one of the cells had busted/exploded internally, requiring me to purchase a new one relatively earlier than usual.(only lasted ~2.5 years)

Anyways, that document might get your thinking pointed in a whole 'nother direction, brother. Hope this helps you isolate the issue sooner.

[Derivatives = WMDs | Stop economic terrorism.. Crash JP Morgan, Buy SILVER!]

 

Take a measurement of the throttle position sensor. If it is off, it would be providing incorrect data to the computer. You could also clean the throttle body with some cleaner in a can. It is less likely these days, but can cause issues.

 

How do I take a measurement of the tps?
Will also try to clean the throttle body with seafoam or something similair if I can get it here in the Netherlands.

 

*Alert!

I hate to say this, but you 'might' be experiencing a problem that will get worse and for some, there is no fix for. This is not isolated to the Patriot. Although, based on the long trail of information within the two threads below, they may be two different issues. The one common denominator that may help differentiate the problem is a stutter-like jerk while turning a corner under acceleration.

http://www.caliberforumz.com/archive/index.php/t-8079.html
http://www.caliberforumz.com/archive/index.php/t-1760.html

Some of the things tried so far include replacing the PCM (including having it flashed/updated), throttle body, spark plugs, coil pack, as well as an entire transmission. After replacing the PCM, it did go away for a short while only to return again later for guy named, 'mouser' in the first thread. Another had his entire tranny replaced, but the problem came back. IF you are having the same problem as everyone else, fuel injector cleaner won't help. But IF it does help, please follow up and let us know!

Depending on how bad your situation is, it may just be something electrical got wet, i.e. TIPM, PCM connectors, etc. After checking out my TIPM a few days ago, there looked to be some condensation inside, but I didn't think anything of it, until now. Something being wet would also explain why the issue has been so hard to isolate.

[Derivatives = WMDs | Stop economic terrorism.. Crash JP Morgan, Buy SILVER!]

 

I hate to say this, but you 'might' be experiencing a problem that will get worse and for some, there is no fix for. This appears to be isolated to 2.4L new world engines. Although, based on the long trail of information within the two threads below, they may be two different issues. The one common denominator that may help differentiate the problem is a stutter-like jerk while turning a corner under acceleration.

http://www.caliberforumz.com/archive/index.php/t-8079.html
http://www.caliberforumz.com/archive/index.php/t-1760.html

Some of the things tried so far include replacing the PCM (including having it flashed/updated), throttle body, spark plugs, wires, coils, as well as an entire transmission. After replacing the PCM, it did go away for a short while only to return again later for guy named, 'mouser' in the first thread. Another had his entire tranny replaced, but the problem came back. IF you are having the same problem as everyone else, fuel injector cleaner won't help.

Depending on how bad your situation is, it may just be something electrical got wet, i.e. TIPM, PCM connectors, etc. After checking out my TIPM a few days ago, there looked to be some condensation inside, but didn't think anything of it, until now. Something being wet would also explain why the issue has been so hard to isolate.

Hmmm, that sounds promising

But something wet could also be the problem. When I bought the car at the dealer the engine bay was super clean and shinny. Looks and feels like they used something with sillicone or something like that.

 

Correction to earlier comment:

It DOES NOT appear to be isolated to the New World Engines. Another victim in one of the threads I previously posted has the same problem with his Magnum SRT8.

I would try and glean as much info from those threads as possible. Much of the troubleshooting listed in there has already been done for us and goes over 'nearly' every scenario..

[Derivatives = WMDs | Stop economic terrorism.. Crash JP Morgan, Buy SILVER!]

 

I did read the two threads on the Caliber forum but I don't think it is completely the same problem as mine.
It seems to be a cvt issue what is talked about and they have a lack of power for 8-10 seconds. My problem is a stutter and takes about 4-5 seconds. I did read this topic and that sounds more like my problem.
The TS solved the problem with 3 bottles of injector cleaner so I am going to do that too first.
I'll keep you all informed.

 

Poured in the second bottle of injector cleaner today before filling her up with fuel.
It almost immediately (after only 5 miles) looks like the stuttering is less then before but that seems almost immpossible to me. Could it work that fast??? Can't imagine.

 

I also have the exact same problem with my 09 manual 2.4L patriot
i will also try using the injector cleaner
results my take awhile for me as i only use it on the week ends.

i'm staying tuned to this thread, cheers.

 

Neither use the Patriot very often so will take some time too.
Read this it is the same kind of problem and injector cleaner did the job.

 

Last 12 days I noticed the stutter was almost completely away, so I thought the second bottle of injector cleaner did the job.
Today we went away with the Patriot and she stuttered again.
Three things;
First, it was raining today for the first time in 2 weeks. So moist can be 1 of the causes. But which part could cause this?
Second, the tank got more empty (quarter of a tank). Last time I filled her up I placed a message that the stutter seemed to be a lot less. Got me thinking, would their be a problem with the fuel pump? Maybe the pump can't deliver enough fuel when there is less in the tank.
Third, the stutter is only when driving. When I push down the gaspedal slowely in neutral (it has manual transmission) I don't feel any stutter between 1500-2000 rpm.

Who can think of possible solutions now I mentioned these 3 points?

Thanks!

 

I'm having a similar problem with my 08 Patriot. My RPM's are stuck at about 1600-1700 when idle. A few months ago, I got my oil changed, and fuel injectors cleaned. Shuttering went away for about a month. Now its back, just changed the spark plugs.... Car feels exactly the same. No change whatsoever.

Just bought 2 bottles of lucas oil fuel injector cleaner, will use this after putting 91 octane Chevron today.And we'll see.

Also, my parents drive my Jeep A LOT, and they always put 87 octane Mobile gas.... Could this be an issue? (I would hope not)

 

i usually put the cheapest gas i can find in, so far i havent had an issue with sputtering or hesitation, but has anyone changed their fuel filter? if changing the plugs and running cleaner through it didnt help maybe that will. im grasping at straws, but couldnt hurt.

 

low rpm bucking surging

Hello all. Newbie with a 2012 Pat, under 3000 miles, and have a similar situation. Mine happens at 1400 to 1700 rps, lightly accelerating when it's cold (under 40F). It will buck but only until the temp gauge gets past 1/4. Also notice engine or cvt surging while braking, again when warming up. I hope we can figure this out before it has to go to the "stealership".:doh:

PS No MIL, and it feels like the motor is dancing around under the hood in both cases. (Maybe bad motor mount(s) from factory????)

 

Hello all. Newbie with a 2012 Pat, under 3000 miles, and have a similar situation. Mine happens at 1400 to 1700 rps, lightly accelerating when it's cold (under 40F). It will buck but only until the temp gauge gets past 1/4. Also notice engine or cvt surging while braking, again when warming up. I hope we can figure this out before it has to go to the "stealership".:doh:

PS No MIL, and it feels like the motor is dancing around under the hood in both cases. (Maybe bad motor mount(s) from factory????)

I also thought of the engine mounts, thinking the engine is moving around too much in the engine bay.

In my track car i replaced all mounts and also attached an additional engine torque dampener to eliminate the engine from turning in the engine bay. But that is under track conditions.

Just feels similar with spongy engine mount bushings.

Althou, at this stage, i'll still continue the injector cleaner method as i'm only probably 1/10th through my first bottle.

Does anyone know if there is an engine torque damper setup for the Patriot?
I've looked around and cannot find any, would like to attach one.

 

Because it's affecting so many people I am thinking it may be the gas. The newer gas has Ethanol which has a tendency to absorb water. I wonder if the cause of the problem is from the gas absorbing to much water or the octane levels dropping, since you don't drive your vehicles that much. I would start to use premium and see if the problem goes away, if it does you know it's octane related. The other interesting thing is that many fuel injector cleaners help to remove water from the gas which may be the reason your jeeps seem to feel better with the injector cleaner. The last possible problem could be the fuel pump, I had a Mustang that had an intermittent problem and was almost impossible to diagnose. It turned out to be the internal circuitry in the fuel pump, not one trouble code. I actually found it by putting an electric fuel meter, I attached the wires to my fuel rail and to the meter in the car, once the car acted up I looked at the meter and seen that the fuel pressure dropped. Hope this helps.

 

I am doubting it would be the gas. I fuel up all my cars there for at least 5 years and none of the other cars ever had a issue with stuttering. I have had 6 other cars and none of them had a stutter.
Moist, could be the problem. Could also explains why it comes back after 10-14 days. I guess the injector cleaner isn't working anymore after such a long time. But then, why is the Patriot having problems with it and all the other cars I have owned didn't. Or wouldn't these other cars have a problem with moist inside the tank? And if they didn't, why does the Pat have moist inside the tank?
Maybe there is some kind of problem with the fuel pump. I noticed several people asking whether the fuel filter is clean or ever been changed. Could one of these people tell me how this should be done? I looked it up in the workshop manual and that says that the fuel filter isn't seviceable? When looking for a new fuel filter for the Pat on the net, I can't find one. So probably it isn't possible to swap the fuel filter.
Could it be the crankshaft position sensor? Or the throttle position sensor? How could this be checked without having any fault codes?
Why is there a stutter when driving and no hesatation when in neutral?

Renospatriot, could you explain a little bit more about finding the problem of the fuel pump? I don't understand what to do from what you explain in your posting.

Thanks everybody for thinking with me, hope the problem get fixed one day.

 

My last two vehicles was a Mustang Gt and a Porsche 944 Turbo S. Both at one point had failing fuel pumps. The Mustang would stutter on and off, and it had taken me almost 3 months to figure it was the fuel pump since it did not throw any codes. The Porsche stuttered at 130 mph on up and slowly got worse to the point of stuttering from 30 mph on up. On both vehicles I purchased an electric fuel meter attached to my fuel rail. The meter was in the vehicle so I was able to monitor the screen when the problem happens. When the pump temporarily stopped working the meter dropped significantly. I was able to pinpoint the problem this way.

 

Thanks Renospatriot.
Could you tell me which electric fuel meter you bought (or where you bought it) and how you did connect it with the fuel rail?
Would be interesting to see if maybe that is my problem.
Yesterday evening filled her up with fuel and poured in the 3rd bottle injector cleaner. Instead of last time, ithe stutter seemed to be more.
Since 3 days it is misty and moisty, so I think moist has defenitely something to do with it. Would it be the moist air sucked in or would there be a build up of a lot of moist in the tank? And how come?

 

I purchased a round 2 1/8 electric fuel meter from Summit Racing. They are pretty inexpensive. Make sure it's electric and not mechanical. The difference is the electric sending unit is attached at the fuel rail and the wires run from there to your meter, the mechanical sending unit will also attach to the fuel rail but an actual gas line will run from the sending unit to your meter which will be in your cabin and that is a bit dangerous should a leak occur.

 

Tank with third bottle injector cleaner is almost empty. Still stuttering.
I did put back in the original air filter (which I replaced for a K&N panel filter before) Seems to give less stuttering.
Bought myself a real cheap OBDII reader and connected it to the Patriot.
Long term fuel trim tells me the car is running lean by 15%. So in order to get it running correct it has to add 15% more fuel then calculated? Also with the original air filter.
What is causing the Pat to run lean. I will check the fuel pressure with the OBDII reader and see if it drops when there is a stutter.
Also noticed that turning on the headlights made the stutter worse.

 

hmm interesting.
its taking me a long time to go through a tank of fuel. I'm just nearing the end of the first bottle of injector cleaner.
I agree, it has not helped so far.
Changed the spark plugs, still doesn't help.
Still staying tuned...

 

Who is possible to help me?
I was reading this and it seems our foglights are 3.5" .
So I went outside and took a measurement. My foglights are 10.5 cm.
When I convert this in inches it would be 4". I always thought 1 inch is 2,54 cm.
But to get the 3.5" it should be multiplied by 3 cm instead of 2.54 cm.
Now I am thinking, I gapped my spark plugs at 0.44". Because everything is metric over here I multiplied this with 2,54 and gapped my plugs 1.176 mm (1.2 mm actually).
Is this maybe wrong??? Is this why I still got stutters? Should it be 0.44x3= 1,32 mm. Maybe not a very big difference but just enough to have that stutter?
Is there anybody who could tell me what the gap of the spark plug should be in mm's (or where I can find it in the workshop manual) and whether a difference of 0.1 mm (difference of 0.07") could cause the stutter.

 

Hay mate,
When i changed my spark plugs i got 1.1mm gap.
I think thats the standard.
0.1mm shoudn't make a difference.

I now have just gone through one bottle of injector cleaner and filled up with petrol again. I must say, the stuttering has gone but not totally. I can still feel it alittle bit. So the injector cleaner help abit.

Tomorrow morning i'm taking the Patriot in to the dealer to see what they can find out. Maybe flash and reprogram the ECU.
I'll report back.

 

Hope it will cure the stutter. I called my dealer the other day and he said a stutter can be caused by so many things, can't say what the problem is without diagnosing.

Keep us updated please

 

Okay, picked up the car this afternoon. Unfortunaty they didn't re-program the ECU because they are not aware of such things here in Australia. USA cars not as big a market than Jap and Euro cars.

So sorry for the disappointing report.
I think they reset it thou, but i didn't relise any difference.
There was no error codes during the scan blah blah blah nothing they can do.

Wasn't a total waste of time because i got other little things fixed on the car.

I have to go back to the dealer in a few weeks for them to fit a new part coming from the USA. So i'll stop the injector cleaner treatment and hope the stuttering comes back and get them to test drive again so they can see my point.

 

What improved much for me is my driving style. I find that when i have to accelerate off the lights and reach 60km/h, i rev it out steadily to 3k rpm before i shift.
I find that shifting before that prones it to stutter. Shift too early then the engine will have to accelarate the car using revs under 2k rpm.
Of course if you need to cruise out of stationary due to slower traffic don't need to rev so high.

Comination of the 1 injector cleaner bottle at the moment and driving style made it alot more bearable.