Well, I had to get out my Decoder ring, I can answer some, but not all of your questions LOL. The 5 speed does not have a low range gear. It is surprising off-road, only let me down one time and mainly it was the ESPs fault, it is quite necesary to disable that shsish ROFL. Of the Wrangler is going to WAY outperform any car based and most truck based SUVs off-road, that's what she is built for, of course you pay for it with a rough ride, bad on-road handling, and bad fuel economy, BUT WHO CARES! As Austin Powers would say "That's it's bag baby". I don't know much about the SX4, but I have little doubt that any 4x4 Patriot would have more capability than it does. Of course a trailrated Patriot has the advantage over the nontrailrated models, but from what i have found out here, that difference isn't extrememly drastic.

 

ACRONYMS

Stew, The newbie wants to know what are: LOL, ESP and shsish ROFL?
Thanks, SWT

 

Stew, The newbie wants to know what are: LOL, ESP and shsish ROFL?
Thanks, SWT

LOL = laugh out loud

ESP = Electronic Stability Control

ROFL = rolling on the floor laughing

All three appear to be technical Jeep terminology.....

 

The Pat 5 Spd 4x4 is capable of taking it off road, I've put it to the test more up here in the southern rockies than probably any other owner out there. If I could post the Videos I took I would but they range from 100MB to a Gig. If any one knows how I can compress these it would help me visually show the range she has. The trip I took this picture on was a 9 mile one way 3000 Ft elevation gain over two stream crossing and more switchbacks than I can remember. High centered it once and had to have my Bro rock me over the hump. Bottomed out 3 times going over come serious wash out dirt mounds and got the brakes to steam up when the water from the streams hit the rotors. The brakes squeak now when I tap them, and I have two more rattles that I didn't have before this trip.

This rig can get it done, but she really paid the price for a 18 miles and 2 hours of the toughest road I'll ever take her on. Put it to you this way, I'm looking for a used 1980's 90's Jeep Wrangler for the next trip up a TRUE 4x4 road. The Pat would do GREAT, if they would just put in a low range for the 5 Spd, trying to the keep the rig at 1200+ RPM's on solid rock/dirt wash out and shale is hell on the suspension and my azz, now throw in a low range and crawl over the rough stuff......... well then you'd just about have a wrangler with great fuel economy, and that might hurt the old wranglers sales.

This is a great all around rig........ to a point, just don't go beyond that.

 

The Pat 5 Spd 4x4 is capable of taking it off road, I've put it to the test more up here in the southern rockies than probably any other owner out there. If I could post the Videos I took I would but they range from 100MB to a Gig. If any one knows how I can compress these it would help me visually show the range she has. The trip I took this picture on was a 9 mile one way 3000 Ft elevation gain over two stream crossing and more switchbacks than I can remember. High centered it once and had to have my Bro rock me over the hump. Bottomed out 3 times going over come serious wash out dirt mounds and got the brakes to steam up when the water from the streams hit the rotors. The brakes squeak now when I tap them, and I have two more rattles that I didn't have before this trip.

This rig can get it done, but she really paid the price for a 18 miles and 2 hours of the toughest road I'll ever take her on. Put it to you this way, I'm looking for a used 1980's 90's Jeep Wrangler for the next trip up a TRUE 4x4 road. The Pat would do GREAT, if they would just put in a low range for the 5 Spd, trying to the keep the rig at 1200+ RPM's on solid rock/dirt wash out and shale is hell on the suspension and my azz, now throw in a low range and crawl over the rough stuff......... well then you'd just about have a wrangler with great fuel economy, and that might hurt the old wranglers sales.

This is a great all around rig........ to a point, just don't go beyond that.

This man knows what he says...

My recent trip in the 94 YJ...

 

I was unable to comprehend large portions of your post, but there is one question I can help.

Is there an advantage to using a CVT4X4 vrs a 5X4X4 in off-road conditions?

First, the lack of a low range can make off-roading hard on the clutch. I would imagine you could put some serious wear and tear on it trying to crawl over rocks. (On the other hand, you might be able to control your speed better by slipping the clutch, compared to "two-pedaling" with the automatic. Everything is a compromise.) Second, with the CVT2 you'll have two pedals. Since most of us have two feet, that makes things a bit easier. (You will need to use both the brakes and throttle simultaneously.)

Really though, if you are buying a FDI when an FDII would be available, you are compromising off-road capability for on-road capability. If that is more important to you, I would think that the best course of action would be to get whichever transmission suits you better and when it comes to off-roading, well, just run what you got.

 

I'll preface by saying i have a FDI 5-spd.

Compared to a Wrnglr(a 10) and a TrlRtd, off-road CVTL Pat(a ?), how does a 5 spd 4X4(5X4X4) Pat measure up(a ?).

Depends on the types of off roading. Most people say Patriot gets a 3-4 vs. a Wrangler's 10. Ground clearance and gearing is the biggest issue IMO.

Does the 5X4X4 have the same drive wheel distribution system as the TrlRtd Pat where the wheel on the ground always gets the power?

Maybe or Almost. The FDII specifically mentions Brake Lock differential, which to me sounds a lot like brake applied traction control. I have only experienced the brake TCS which is quite effective with 2 wheels with limited traction, so I cannot compare to FDII.

What is the Frdm Drv 1(5X4X4) first gear ratio X final drive ratio on the ground ratio? How low is 5X4X4 low? Compared to the CVTLX4X4 low? I figure <15:1 compared to 19:1. What is possible w/that ratio?

You got it, 15:1 vs. 19:1, all else equal (tires mainly). 5-spd is more efficient as well, which means more torque to the wheels to slightly make up for the taller gearing.

Is there an advantage to using a CVT4X4 vrs a 5X4X4 in off-road conditions?

There are tradeoffs. At low speeds which is common on off-road trails, slipping the torque converter is better than slipping the clutch. As mentioned already, left foot braking is preferred for better control of the vehicle over obsticles. However, 5-spds are generally easier to repair and are more efficient for more power gets to ground.

The FDII is a great value if you already want the aluminum wheels and CVT. It costs about $700 more and costs about 15% more fuel every day over the FDI CVT. The 5-spd offers more involved driving experience, more power, and better FE, despite its short gearing for $1700 less than CVT2L FDII. You just have to deal with the shifting and clutch work. As with all vehicles that offer both, one should drive both before deciding. One should stand out to you as being the right fit for you.

 

Maybe or Almost. The FDII specifically mentions Brake Lock differential, which to me sounds a lot like brake applied traction control. I have only experienced the brake TCS which is quite effective with 2 wheels with limited traction, so I cannot compare to FDII.

Check your manual. It states that the FDI does have the brake applied traction control, but when used, the computer limits engine RPM's even with ESP fully off. With FDII, the computer allows the engine to rev freely when one or more wheels are in the air / slipping. (For what it's worth, when I've had a wheel airborne, I didn't even notice it. At low speeds, crawling along the trail, the computer apparently does not kick in.)

 

hoping to test my 2013 5spd 4x4 real soon on some gravel roads that are steep... 32% grades!

 

success!

one stretch of the road has large creek gravel and is fairly steep but not the steepest part by any stretch.

on that part and i had to a little fast than i would if i had a lower gear but it wasn't bad at all. past that and hitting the 32% grade i just kept it in first and it motored right up.

the road has some rocks sticking up etc, nothing too bad and i never had an issue at all with clearance. a normal car can no way make it up there for various reason mainly clearance.

i am happy with the patriot!!!

 

5X4X4=80

The 5-speed Patriot is an 80.

 

and what meaning does that have?

80 out of 100?

??

if this jeep had a low range, with the stick, it would rock, totally.

 

I have a few other videos too.

, I've put it to the test more up here in the southern rockies

Which trails did you go on?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeUnSNom6co

I have a few other videos too.


Which trails did you go on?

coloradoman, you have a 5spd manual or cvt?

 

without the low gear ratio of FD2, you are really limited on how steep of an incline you can do.

 

yes... But i will also, say it's not by a whole lot it "seems".

My other vehicle, 2007 xterra 4x4, has something like 35:1 in 4lo. So it's a factor of 2 "better" than the fdII patriot. There maybe more to that though as the x has 321 ft/lbs torque at 3400 rpms or something like that opposed to our 165 at 4400 rpm.

For my purposes, i never use that 35:1. In fact, i would say 19:1 would only be marginally better than the 15:1 in the fd1 with manual but i am just basing that on the numbers....