Jeep Patriot Forums banner
21 - 35 of 35 Posts
I agree. The brake lock will stop any wheels that are slipping and transfer the power to wheels that aren't slipping. It is only found int fd2. With fd1 there is no brake lock so if one wheel on the same axel is slipping the other one won't move. So in theory, if a front and back wheel are slipping the pat would be stuck. Only 2 wheels slipping can stop the fd1 pat.
FD1 also has brake traction control, it's not as agressive as the FDII version, but works the same....applies the brake to the spinning wheel so the one with traction gets the torque.
All this stuff is in the manual...not sure why it's so confusing?
 
I am not sure if this is correct but I think the whole breaking on wheels that are slipping is only on the fd2
Looking back at the quote from my 2008 Owner's Manual, "Traction Control System...If one wheel on a driven axle is spinning faster than the other, the system will apply the brake of the spinning wheel. This will allow more engine torque to be applied to the wheel that is not spinning. This feature remains active even if TCS and ESP are in either the “Partial Off” or “Full Off” modes. Refer to “Electronic Stability Program (ESP)” in this Section of this manual."

The FDI and FDII are the only Patriots with "Partial Off" or "Full Off" modes. What makes you think it is only on the FWD or FDII (fd2?).

I am pretty sure I observed it working when I experimented in a parking lot a couple of weeks ago when we got some snow on top of ice. For what it is worth, I tried everything working, 4WD Lock, 4WD Lock with ESP Partial Off, and 4WD with ESP Off. I did repetitive accelerations from a stop.

The least amount of fishtailing occured with everything working. The farther I got from everything working the more fishtailing, and/or rear end sliding out on me I got. My takeaway was to use it the way the manual recommends, turning stuff off only if I am not able to move otherwise.

With fd1 there is no brake lock so if one wheel on the same axel is slipping the other one won't move. So in theory, if a front and back wheel are slipping the pat would be stuck. Only 2 wheels slipping can stop the fd1 pat.
When I bought my 2008 Pat, I also considered the 2008 Subaru Forester. The Forester I would have bought was AWD with open differentials front and rear and no traction control system. My driving includes stretches of dirt road where one side of the car is on relatively high ground while the other side is in an elongated mud hole. I was concerned that the Forester tires on the side in the mud hole would have been spinning with the tires on the other side not turning with me walking to get the tractor to pull me out. The fact that the 2008 Patriot had traction control was one of the significant factors in my getting the Patriot. I know that the 2009 and later Foresters had traction control, but I was in the market in December, 2007.
 
...The owners manual is not very descriptive about ESP but my interpretation is that Partial/Off will disable the throttle governor so that you can spin the wheels when stuck in deep snow. The manual is pretty vague about when to use Full/Off.
I agree on the manual being pretty vague about when to use Full Off. So far, I have been able to negotiate some pretty muddy stretches with just 4WD Lock, which I used because I wanted to make sure I got through. My impression is "If all else fails, try Full Off." I am talking lousy traction here, not rock crawling where one tire may be airborne. while the other three are on the ground.
 
I noticed when we had a big snow storm last month it was more difficult to get to make a tight corner in a snow/ice parking lot compared to turning it off. I haven't tried 4x4 lock on dry pavement... Never occured to me to try.

Under hard acceleration I can definitely feel the power going to the rear.
 
The AWD mode works on it's own on dry pavement. If the computer senses hard acceleration and a high off-set of steering input, it will feather torque to the rear wheels as it deems necessary. This occurs without any slip actually ocurring. As far as Brake-Lock on the FDI...The Traction Control System applies brake pressure to the tire on the inside of the turn when it detects a slide, pulling the vehicle into the desired direction. This is no different than what an FDII does in a loss of traction situation, and relies on the same basic programming to accomplish it. The major difference seems to be that the FDII will enable this feature at low speed, in a straight line. The ESP system does this too, on the FDI, but it takes a significantly higher amount of wheel spin to do it. I have experienced this first-hand in deep snow with my FDI. You can see the snow roostertails switching from side to side and FEEL the Jeep jumping around as it switches side to side with power. On the torque split question outlined in an earlier post, if the front tires are on a relatively higher traction surface (Snow), and the rears are on a lower one (ice), and the system is in Lock mode, the low-traction axle will spin only as much as the high-traction axle. A 50/50 split. If the rears are in a ditch, and the front is on the pavement, it will walk out or spin the fronts AND rears. Mind you, there seems to be a safety feature built into the programming to prevent damge to the drivetrain in these situations. This safety program cuts power to the engine. There are lots of posts on this subject. I have had this happen on a hill in deep snow. I switched to ESP full-off, rolled backward a little, then pulled the trigger in drive. I broke the tires loose and the Pat climbed the rest of the hill like a scalded mountain goat.
 
WV Patriot gave you the links to the Jeep web site, and the best explanation of how the FDI and FDII systems work.

Not sure if it's the same in FDI and FDII, but my ESP can be turned partially off, and full off, but I can only get full off when I am in Low off road gear. Oh, it also works full off in reverse, but only after I turn it full off in Low off road gear. When I shift back into D (drive) it changes to partial off.
 
WV Patriot gave you the links to the Jeep web site, and the best explanation of how the FDI and FDII systems work.

Not sure if it's the same in FDI and FDII, but my ESP can be turned partially off, and full off, but I can only get full off when I am in Low off road gear. Oh, it also works full off in reverse, but only after I turn it full off in Low off road gear. When I shift back into D (drive) it changes to partial off.
full off will work outside of the low range, just push and hold the esp button until it chimes mine does full off in any mode
 
Yesterday I was driving in some deep snow with the 4 wheel lock on and esp on and I almost got stuck. I actually stalled twice. I had the pat floored in first gear but I couldn't get the rpms over 2k. Later I tried it with esp off and it did just fine.
 
I think the esp locked up all my tires. That was so weird. Nothing would spin eventhough I had it floored.
It is attempting to save you from burning out your brakes by your attempt to spin the tires when it is trying to give you perfect traction. The computer traction system does guess wrong sometimes and that is why the esp off switch is there. It allows the driver to spin the wheels even when the system is trying to brake the wheels to simulate limited slip (via the ABS). Your example is why the switch should be used and your experience is helpful to other owners. Jeep needs to better document what is going on.
 
21 - 35 of 35 Posts