You shouldn't be trying to grab 1st at 60mph... row back down thru the gears in order (5, 4, 3, 2, 1), or just hit a couple (like 4, 2, 1) Let the clutch out at each gear, you'll find that you get plenty of engine braking in 2nd gear.

There's NO safety mechanism to lock out 1st gear, so while you CAN downshift into 1st gear at a higher rate of speed (i'm talking anything over 20mph), you have to really rev the engine (which carries it's own risk), but more likely you'll probably burn up the clutch or blow an axle doing that. The syncros on each gear will attempt to spin the gear up, but i'm sure you've realized that it has a hard time finding first until you're under a certain speed.

I think the problem is that you're trying to take "very sharp corners" at 60mph. A Ferrari, while a fine pice of automotive bliss, will likely spin out of control trying to do what you're doing. You're lucky if you don't roll your Pat doing this.

Downshift in steps, like i said above. This also keeps you from being caught in too LOW a gear when that light goes green, and prevents you from having to up-shift in a hurry. 1st gear is for taking off from full stops, stop abusing it. And stop driving a Patriot like it's a Ferrari.

 

Thanks for the lecture.

I'm not hitting corners doing 60mph. Mostly downshift to 2nd... bringing me well before the patriot tipping point.

Mostly its when I see that light go red a few hundred yards and know that I'm going to be sitting there dead stop once I get there. Maybe I'm just too new at manual tran and don't really like "rowing" through all the gears. Maybe I'm just lazy. .. really I just like the hum of down shifting first. :banana:

when she goes, I will get something for my mid-life

 

Suit yourself. I'm just saying, you asked about a safety lockout for first gear, there isn't one, and one day soon you're going to find yourself in the dealer's lot or the garage.

Maybe i should be more clear.

Downshifting to first near 60mph in a Patriot is bad for your car and dangerous. Should your foot slip off the clutch in 1st gear at 60mph, you run the risk of locking up the front tires (skidding), grenading an axle, breaking a motor mount, over-revving the engine (leading to valve float, which can punch a hole in the piston or bend/break a valve), cracking the engine block, cracking the transmission housing, stripping tranny gears, polishing the flywheel, or destroying your clutch, or some combination of the above. It's dangerous. You're not going to drive it like that for long before it breaks or you get into an accident.

IMO, not worth the trouble, just for the sake of hearing your engine rev up. Can't imagine how that sounds good, engine screaming like a Formula 1 car as you pull up to a stop light; it's an econo-box. If you need to hear your engine, go get a CAI or cheap cone filter; it'll cost less than the repairs mentioned above and might improve the performance of the car for the times it is driving. Driving fast and being a road terror is fun and all (I'll admit to a bit of hoonery on my part), but it's pointless if your car is on the lift getting work done. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

nth256 is certainly right on about damaging something. When I'm on the highway in 5th gear I downshift to 4th by pulling the lever straight down and then come to a complete stop before ever shifting into 1st gear. When going around a corner, I often shift from 4 into 2nd gear.

 

IN the transmission there are what is called synchronizers. They allow the transmission to be down shifted without double clutching. Think about what the engine RPM would be if you were going 60MPH in 1 st gear. Probably well over red line of 6k. When you attempt to put the shifter into 1st going too fast the synchronizer tries to bring first gear up to speed until it matches. As you slow down, gently hold the shifter against 1st gear. When the synchronizer has matched gear speeds in the transmission, the shifter will slip in there easily. You will probably have to be down around 15 or 20MPH to have it go into 1st easily. Otherwise, if you meet resistance trying to down shift, you just have hold slight tension against that gear until the synchronizer catches up. I hope that helps. Remember, it's a Jeep, not a Lotus 007!

 

As a newbie to manual trans, keep it simple to minimize wear on various components. When you are braking to a stop or down to about 10-20mph for turns than you plan to accelerate afterwards in second gear, shift to neutral and take your foot off the clutch. Once at a stop or in the middle of the turn, shift into the desired gear and accelerate.

Shifting to first gear when when plan to stop but still moving is a bad idea. The principles of shifting down through each gear or every other gear are to 1) use engine braking to slow the vehicle down and 2) be in a drive gear to accelerate reasonably quickly if the situation changes and you need to. But those tradeoffs are at the cost of excessive clutch component wear and especially for a newbie, not worth the cost.

Remember this: when the clutch is pressed, something is wearing. When the clutch is not all the way in or out, it is wearing the most.

Clutches can be worn out in less than 10k miles, or can last 200k miles. Clutches cost $500-2000 to replace and brake pads, only $50. And you stop quicker in an emergency situation (on dry and wet, maybe not snow) with the engine disconnected from the trans, either by using neutral or clutch in.

 

When I was taught how to drive a manual, I was told to never down shift into first, and always use 2nd for taking a slow rolling turn. 1st is really only there to start the vehicle moving from a stop. True story, back in high school, a friend bought a 1976 Super Beetle (a really nice one too, original owner, all white, low miles) and he had never driven stick in his life. I offered to drive it home for him and show him how to drive stick. He "manned" up and said he could figure it out and he didn't need me to drive his car home, so I followed him instead. He drove like a mad man, stalling, bucking, spinning wheels. Finally as we get to his street (doing about 45-50mph) I hear this god awful grinding noise as he's slowing to take his turn. Then he can barely get the thing moving on his street. Sure enough, he down shifted into first. I even asked him how he was able to get it into first and he said it wouldn't go at first so he forced it :doh: I jumped in to take it for a spin and first was gone. Just sounded like a handful of gravel was thrown in the trans.

 

In most old cars they didn't even bother to synchronize 1st. You never use it unless you stop.

 

In the UK if you pass your driving test on an Automatic car , it will be illegal for you to attempt to dive a Manual car as you Licence wont cover it. You have to go through the whole learning / driving test situation again.Automatics & manuals are two different animals & the driving techniques are totally different!! However if you pass your test on a manual your licence covers you for automatics.Believe me if you are used to automatics , you will have no idea how to drive a manual properly without tuition!!

 

Good thing it isn't like that here!
I learned on automatics, but the first car I bought was a 4 speed Mazda GLC Sport. Not only was it a manual, it also didn't have power steering which was common in those days. I had driven dirt bikes prior to that, but never a manual car. I drove it away no prob, and drove that car into the ground in less then a year
There were no brakes, busted tie rods, busted sway bar, but the engine and tranny still worked great

 

I will call this thread an Hymn to manual transmission. Words of wisdom and knowledge and experience. :notworthy:Thank you, a pleasure reading it. This has always been my choice of driving...Guess it comes with motorcycle riding also. BTW has anybody ever seen a automatic tranmission motorcycle?

 

BTW has anybody ever seen a automatic tranmission motorcycle?

Yep, the good ole HondaMatic!

http://www.hondamotorcycles-usedmotorcycles.com/hondamatic.html

 

This forum is not a school for learning how to drive a manual or automatic transmission! If you don`t kow how to drive properly, be it stick or auto, you present a danger to all other people on the road. Go to a driving school, they will explain and teach you in theory and practice all that you need to know. Downshifting to 1st gear at 60 MPH is outright stupid! And if you`re just having fun posting this here, well I don`t think it`s funny at all

 

okay, this is your first manual vehicle...so you should really explore the gears, but think of this...whenever your engage your clutch, your putting wear on it..so if you press in your clutch and then try to drop into a low gear at a high speed, your really wearing your clutch and if you drop to 1st from 60 you can kiss your tranny goodbye. I'd suggest going to 5 or 4th max from 60 and further down as you slow down. Don't forget you have brakes....

 

I did a little experiment today. I was going about 35 MPH and I held the shifter against 1st gear. After about 10 seconds the sychronizers did finally let me move the lever to 1st but I did not let the clutch out. I didn't need to have the engine go from 1k to 5k in a split second. I will not try this again. It seems obvious to me it will wear out some parts. Unless you are at a complete stop you never really need to shift into 1st anyway. Since I spend a lot of time switching from the old Willys to the Patriot, I often forget the shift pattern and start the Patriot out in 2nd. I prefer to "forget" in this manner because 1st on the Patriot is reverse on the Willys. I'd rather be going the right direction and I'm sure the guy behind me wishes the same. The Patriot starts out just fine in 2nd on flat ground and easy acceleration although I do try to use 1st as much as I can on starts from a stop to reduce clutch wear.

 

My turn! In the USA, at least, it is trendy, with young drivers, to modify the exhaust and keep the RPMs high. I suspect that is what this discussion is really about. Never mind the excess wear and tear and wasted fuel when Daddy is paying the bill.

 

The "Look at meeeeee" exhaust systems? The ones where they make the car sound like a chain saw on steroids?

 

I dont want a vehicle that sounds like a Moped!!

 

Back in the 70's I always thought it was funny when you would hear a airy wheezy car just winding up to beat heck. Then you would look and it was a VW van moving about 10 MPH.

 

Or me in my '70 VW Fastback Type III!

 

I don't own a manual but a few of my friends let me drive theirs. When coming to a complete stop at a light or something I would push the clutch in and coast while applying the break and leaving the shifter in whatever gear it was it, like 5th for example. When i would come to a complete stop is when I put the shifter in first.

I would do the same when making a turn, I would push the clutch in when approaching the turn and coast/apply brake to the turn while leaving the shifter in the original gear, then when I make the turn I shift to 2nd or 3rd, let out clutch and go.


Since there seems to be knowledgeable people here, Is this the right way to go about it or should I down shift through all the gears when slowing down like some posts say?

 

....Since there seems to be knowledgeable people here, Is this the right way to go about it or should I down shift through all the gears when slowing down like some posts say?

It is a matter of personal preference. I do much as you do. Down shifting will save the brakes from wear but as has been said, brakes are very inexpensive to replace compared to a clutch and trans.

 

Yep, like Tater1800 said, you can do it both ways. Engine braking with the gear on saves not only the brakes but also the gasoline if the car has an fuel injector. If you drive an older car with a carburetor, it's more fuel efficient to coast freely.

Driving on a slippery road surface is a another thing. Especially when the road bends, it makes difference if your wheels are still pulling or not.

In my country everybody knows how to drive stick, but many have never driven automatics.

 

Is this the right way to go about it or should I down shift through all the gears when slowing down like some posts say

Neither! Clutch in, shift to neutral, clutch out while decelerating say at least 20mph (40mph-20 for a turn, or to 50 to a stop, etc), especially for a newbie. Being in a gear that is too high to accelerate has no advantage. Having the clutch pushed in is wearing it. Slipping the clutch to let the engine spin up wears all the clutch components.

The goal should be to have the clutch fully out as much as possible. If you can keep that in the back of your mind while driving, you'll maximize your powertrain life. Think of if this way, clutch in = $$$. How much depends on the situation. Slipping the clutch causes the most wear, so revving to 3000rpm and slipping the clutch all the way from a stop to 3000 in first gear is a lot of wear. Holding the clutch in at a stoplight is not much wear, but still unnecessary. As long as you aren't the first 2 cars in line at a light, no reason to do it. If you watch the cross traffic lights, you can minimize wear and not hold up traffic by waiting 3 seconds to clutch in, hit first, then release the clutch.

Oh, and never hold the car on an uphill modulating the clutch! Holy wear! Meanwhile, the brakes are not wearing at all once the vehicle is stopped.

Yep, like Tater1800 said, you can do it both ways. Engine braking with the gear on saves not only the brakes but also the gasoline if the car has an fuel injector.

Marginally more fuel is used in neutral @ idle vs. decelerating. And you either wasted more fuel to rev match while down-shifting or you cost yourself about 3 extra clutch replacements letting the clutch spin the engine up to the lower gear over just using neutral or clutch in.

 

I was going to formulate a big response, but APT has it down there already. :smiley_thumbs_up:

I will add what you wear though. When you keep the clutch in, you wear the pilot bearing and the throw out bearing. Every time the clutch engages, you wear the clutch plate during the time when it is not fully engaged or disengaged..

 

Jepstr is right about what components wear. I think it hardly matters because all the labor (yourself or costs for a shop) to open it up means you should replace all 4 components anyway.

 

Agreed, if you take it apart, replace everything!

 

If you are all wet behind the ears when it comes to the manual transmissions, I guess it's OK to be overcautious. edit: I removed the rest of my reply; this reminded me of the people who don't use turn signals, because they are afraid that the bulbs might burn out. And like Boy George said, you can't really teach the proper operation here. For the record, I'm still not going to use neutral. Let's see if our cars make another 20+ years without any clutch part replacement.

 

I think I posted before that my sis-in-law uses the clutch pedal as a foot rest. She has had 4 new clutch plates & 1 flywheel fitted in 5 years . She has a 7 year old Golf.

 

The opposite example: none of my family or relatives have had a single clutch problem, some cars over 20 years old, doing lots of engine braking and staying on gear at the intersections. Maybe if there was like 400 000 - 500 000 kms you could expect problems.

 

I'm not sure how a turn indicator relates to the clutch. If a bulb burns out, you can still drive the vehicle. It is an inexpensive and quick change. If a clutch wears out, your vehicle is stopped. Well, you can still drive a manual trans vehicle without a clutch as long as it acts like it is always out, but it is difficult.

I use my turn indicators.

 

Pat 2008 4x2 Does the same principle apply regarding syncing as per downshifting from fourth to third? as being discussed from second to first? (when I shift up, I always, now, shift up at 2000rpm... and the shifting just seems smoother.

I'm finding that the transmission will kick back my shifter till the revs wind down.. or I hear and feel a rattle... that's spooky. So, I'm much gentler coming off the highway on the exit ramp.

(I used to drive truck in the city and I became quite aggressive which seems to have carried over. A habit to brake, so to speak.)