[quasimodem51]

Folks:

I just had my pride hurt when I attempted to create some ruts in deep snow in a neighbour's drive way. I create these ruts to throw off would-be thieves since these neighbours are away for the winter. Anyway, I got stuck. My front wheels ended up on smooth ice.

I am writing because of the unexpected behaviour (at least to me) of the 4WD. Let me explain...

When first stuck, I tried reversing. No luck. While in reverse, I exited the Jeep because the snow was about a foot deep and figured, even if the wheels grabbed, my Patriot wasn't going to peel out. I noticed that the front wheels were spinning slowly but the back wheels were not. The back wheels were in snow (I think) and the front wheels were on ice.

Shouldn't the Jeep have applied 50% power to the rear wheels? Shouldn't they be spinning too?

I tried turning the wheels back and forth in both Drive, Reverse and Low (I have CVT2L and FDII). I must admit, I only exited the Patriot and observed the front wheels only spinning (both forward and reverse) while the ESP was totally off.

I tried getting out with both the ESP on, partially off and completely off. No luck. I had to get a tug out by a neighbours GMC pickup. My pride was hurt.

I was surprised that all 4 wheels were not spinning? What is the expected behaviour for a CVT2L w/FDII stuck in snow? Did I do something wrong?

Signed,
Grumbling in the GTA

 

[liftedMK]

i have the FDI and have been in a simillar situation, however once i turned off the ESP all 4 wheels were spining and i was able to get moving again. Could u have been highcentered?

 

[steveo]

The 4wheel drive most not be engaging

 

[JeepJim]

12" of snow is about 3" inches deeper than the FDII has for ground clearance with the front skid plate very well could have acted like a Ski lifting the front tires off the ground...

Do you know if any of the tires were actually spinning? If so which ones?

 

[JimCno]

You never mentioned... did you lock in the 4WD?

 

[liftedMK]

You never mentioned... did you lock in the 4WD?

i had ASSumed that they did. i had too inorder for me to get unstuck. 4wd locked and esp off.

 

[hunter44102]

Sounds like the 4wd is not working right like Steveo says.

I was all over the snow yesterday and I didn't even need the 4wd LOCK, the standard 4wd was great!

 

[jepstr67]

If..........It was in 4WD at least one rear wheel would have to be turning, unless there is something wrong with the magnetic clutch.

Did you try it in low range? You said you have FD2, did you not?

What does turning off the ESP do? Did The Amazing Kreskin design this drive system? Or does it just mean he can't get vibes from your car?

 

[liftedMK]

when this happend to me i thought i had the underbody resting on snow. i got out of the jeep and looked at ea wheel and the underbody to see how much room there was. had maybe 2 inches so i knew i wasnt centered. with the 4wd lock on and esp on i was only able to spin one front tire. with eso partial off and 4wd locked was able to get 2 tires spining and able to rock the jeep. so took esp full off and 4wd locked i was able to get all 4 spining and with some jostling of the steering wheel able to back up and get moving again. i dont know if this is what happend to Quasi or not, but i do know that this has happend to other people and ea and everyone was able to get unstuck by turning off the ESP.

 

[quasimodem51]

I am certain that I had 4WD locked on (it said 4WD on the dash), was in low gear (said off road on the dash) and ESP was off (said ESPOFF) on the LEDs on the dash. I did not exit the vehicle for every option (ESP On/Off, 4WD On/Off, Low Gear Forward/Reverse.

I believe I was high centered. Also there was smotth glare ice under the snow of the front tires. They were spinning. Nothing at all from the rear wheels. May have to get it checked or take a buddy with me to spy and see if my rear wheels have drive.

Is there anything (like high centering) that could cause the rear wheels not to turn? Could the Hill descent be doing something because I am high centered?

I was under the impression thaat turning ESP fully off and having the car in 4WD, it was as close as you could get to the more traditional 4WD feel with no intervention by the computer (e.g. the computer doesn't apply the ABS brakes for example).

Very exasperating.

Oh by the way. After getting the tow, later in the day I went on the highway. The Patriot rode like it had thrown a wheel weight or two. Over time, the unbalanced feeling diminished. I recall a thread in the forums here where snow got caked and made the ride unbalanced. I just want to second that. The unbalanced wheel feel happened to for about 20 minutes at 100 - 120 kmh.

Sigh

 

[liftedMK]

if u were high centered theres really nothing u could have done other than get towed out or dig dig dig ur way out. if u were then no traction could be given to some of the tires if not all of them.

 

[JimCno]

What does turning off the ESP do?

The ESP will throttle back the engine when the wheels start spinning. You would turn it off in a case like quasi is describing so your wheels will spin hoping to get some traction.

I can't understand why you wouldn't have at least one wheel spinning in front and one in back with the 4WD locked in and the ESP turned off. It was my understanding that with the 4WD locked in, the power was sent 50/50 to the front and rear axle. Though with 4WD instead of AWD, only one wheel per axle will drive.

 

[quasimodem51]

I can't understand why you wouldn't have at least one wheel spinning in front and one in back with the 4WD locked in and the ESP turned off. It was my understanding that with the 4WD locked in, the power was sent 50/50 to the front and rear axle. Though with 4WD instead of AWD, only one wheel per axle will drive.

That is precisely my understanding too. I really was expecting one rear wheel to be spinning and one rear wheel. Unless of course it actually didn't have enough torque applied (me outta the Patriot so no foot on the gas). The ice under the front wheels made it real easy for the engine to turn the front wheels, both in fact.

 

[quasimodem51]

Pics

Here are some pics of what stuck me.

The close up shows the imprint of the undercarriage of the Jeep plus the deep ruts created by the front wheels. I was going to try and drive up the neighbour's driveway to make it look like someone was home. I got stuck at the bottom of the driveway. I probably high centered trying to drive over a buried snowplow windrow.

 

[Brian P]

That is precisely my understanding too. I really was expecting one rear wheel to be spinning and one rear wheel. Unless of course it actually didn't have enough torque applied (me outta the Patriot so no foot on the gas). The ice under the front wheels made it real easy for the engine to turn the front wheels, both in fact.

I believe that it was because your foot was not on the gas, I got high centred once, and I got out a couple times to check things out and eventually do some digging. Anyways, With the Jeep in reverse, no foot on the pedal, NO wheels were moving, I guess the resistance was too much. However, from looking at the markings in the snow, It seemed clear that all 4 wheels were spinning when I applied the gas. In your case, because of the ice in the front they had enough juice to spin, in the back, not the case. Odviously I can't say for sure what happened to you, but that was my experiance. I have FD1, had 4 wheel lock and esp off.

 

[JeepJim]

if you search there are several people complaining that FDII is not the way to go offroad something to do with the CVT...

Here is one account:

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2073

 

[wyxx]

What kind of tires do you have?

 

[quasimodem51]

JeepJim: Yes, I researched back but could not see anything akin to my situation. The situation being me being a dough-head for not considering the icy windrow beneath the fresh snow.

wyxx: I have the stock Goodyear SR-As with 12000 kms on them. I have been able to trek through some deep snow.

 

[quasimodem51]

I believe that it was because your foot was not on the gas, I got high centred once, and I got out a couple times to check things out and eventually do some digging. Anyways, With the Jeep in reverse, no foot on the pedal, NO wheels were moving, I guess the resistance was too much. However, from looking at the markings in the snow, It seemed clear that all 4 wheels were spinning when I applied the gas. In your case, because of the ice in the front they had enough juice to spin, in the back, not the case. Odviously I can't say for sure what happened to you, but that was my experiance. I have FD1, had 4 wheel lock and esp off.

Thanks BrianP. That makes me feel a bit better in the sense that there may be nothing wrong with my magnetic clutch. I will do more tests.

 

[JeepFan]

Yes,. it's mostly because your foot was not on the gas. The torque converter clutches have not locked up, and as far as the car is concerened you are just creeping slowly forward while waiting in queue at some traffic light.

The tractrion control system has to sense how to apply torque by monitoring wheel spin and gas pedal. If no wheel is spinning at the expense of another and the gas pedal is not being pushed to drive forward, the car will behave as you described.