Hi all. New to this forum. Just purchased a certified pre owned 2013 Freedom edition Patriot. This is my 2nd jeep. 1st was a TJ wrangler about 10 years ago. Anyway I was reading up on the "trail rated" badge and the FDI & II 4x4. My patriot has the 2.4L motor / tow hooks / skid plates / 17" wheels but it doesn't have the trail rated badge. So am I to assume it is not trail rated because it doesn't have the badge? Or am I missing something? Sorry if I missed this topic in another thread. Thanks in advance for any help.
Question about FDI vs. FDII / trail rated
Danno148
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Hi all. New to this forum. Just purchased a certified pre owned 2013 Freedom edition Patriot. This is my 2nd jeep. 1st was a TJ wrangler about 10 years ago. Anyway I was reading up on the "trail rated" badge and the FDI & II 4x4. My patriot has the 2.4L motor / tow hooks / skid plates / 17" wheels but it doesn't have the trail rated badge. So am I to assume it is not trail rated because it doesn't have the badge? Or am I missing something? Sorry if I missed this topic in another thread. Thanks in advance for any help.
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You can buy the trail rated badge, but the badge doesn't mean much, just a marketing badge now a days sadily, haha if you got the low range 4x4 gears your good to go!
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You probably have the all weather package (or whatever its called) we can't have that option in Canada. However it doesn't come with skid plates, so you may in fact have a FDII, if your gear shifter has the L position It is a FDII.
As Romeo states the badge is just a badge signifying according to Jeep's set of testing rules a particular vehicle passes certain tests in different offroad situations.
Even if it isn't a FDII you have skid plates and tow hooks, which are valuable for offroading. If you put a good set of tires on there you would have a pretty capable machine offroad.
As Romeo states the badge is just a badge signifying according to Jeep's set of testing rules a particular vehicle passes certain tests in different offroad situations.
Even if it isn't a FDII you have skid plates and tow hooks, which are valuable for offroading. If you put a good set of tires on there you would have a pretty capable machine offroad.
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are you skid plates plastic or metal? all patriots have a plastic "stone guard" in fact most cars have them anymore. But it is a metal skid plate on the FDII patriot.
You're really only missing about 3 things you cannot change between a FDI and a FDII. The more aggressive Brake lock differentials, the hill decent control, and the Lower final drive ratio. If you don't really plan on doing serious off roading with it... you really won't miss those options.
You're really only missing about 3 things you cannot change between a FDI and a FDII. The more aggressive Brake lock differentials, the hill decent control, and the Lower final drive ratio. If you don't really plan on doing serious off roading with it... you really won't miss those options.
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There is nothing that a trail rated patriot can do that a non trail rated patriot can't do. The low range could give an advantage in certain circumstances that a patriot shouldn't be in anyhow, but just an advantage. The other models are just as capable.
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A bold statement.
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if I had my patriot still I would challenge you on that statement...
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I've been in many situations where more low end would be handy. There's a point between having enough momentum and being out of control. Not having the low range makes it harder to stay below that line and not get stuck. Just yesterday I wish I would have had low. I was bottomed out in snow pedal to the floor and no tires were spinning. (may have been partially the BLDs fault) after shifting between drive and reverse a couple times I switched off 4wd and was finally able to get some wheels spin. Still needed the come a long to get out but I might not have gotten stuck at all had I had low.
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I'm going to reply to your post in a nice polite way, in no way am I trying to doubt the abilities of FDI MK's I encourage more people to take their FDI's offroad. I also will say FDII MK"s are not the greatest thing since sliced bread but there are differences.
The flexing videos I have posted, that can't be done without FDII BLD's I even have a video of trying the FDI mode to go over the obstacle but it would not go over because the BLD's don't activate long and strong enough to get any meaningful torque transfer.
The FDII BLD's will lock a spinning wheel in the air and hold it there until there is movement on the other wheel, sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't I have proven this many times.
At 22 seconds i'm about 1/2 throttle, 28 seconds I go full throttle and hold it, still not enough force being applied to the spinning wheels. You can tell when I go into the FDII Low range mode.
How does this relate offroad, quite simply if you have articulation and the wheels on the ground don't receive enough torque because the wheels in the air are not having enough brake force applied, you aren't going to move. Now if you are on a surface where you aren't going to have any articulation then this isn't really that big of a deal, but it still matters.
You will notice a difference climbing hills with a FDII vs FDI, the low range absolutely makes a large difference, if you go up a steep hill chances are you are going to lose traction on 1 front and 1 rear tire, when the wheels spin, since the FDI doesn't have aggressive enough BLD's you will just sit there and spin, or slide back down the hill, the FDII low range allows the more aggressive BLD's to function and get the vehicle moving again, Video showing what i'm talking about:
As you can see, when I wasn't in the FDII mode all I did was spin (which is what a FDI would do) When I go into the FDII mode I don't have enough torque to power the wheels that need it, and I had my foot to the floor for the whole time. Part of the problems on my old pat was the 40lb tires I had, they really sucked the power out of the engine. Once again FDII was able to tackle the obstacle.
So even with little articulation when traction is lost by the tires the BLD's kick in and save the day.
Here is another hill climb video where the FDI mode would not have climbed up it at all.
Here is a small hill climb:
I start off in D and 4x4 locked which is exactly how a FDI would behave (ignoring my different overall ratio of 8:1) You can see I had my foot right to the floor but not enough power transferred to the other wheels spinning. At 17 seconds I go into L 4x4 locked (FDII mode) and I can't remember for sure but I think I cycled out of FDII mode quickly to get some wheel spin up before having the aggressive BLD kick in. As you can see in this case even the FDII couldn't transfer enough usable torque to the tires with traction. Solved that problem by going with a bit more momentum and slightly different line.
Yes you could argue that the Compass (or Patriot) doesn't belong in these situations, however in reality it does these vehicles are very capable and more so than most people give them credit for.
So you can't add hIll decent to a FDI but that's really not a point to argue as it doesn't really change the capability. You can lift a FDI you can add skid plates tow hooks all that. Those mods absolutely add more capability.
The fact of the matter is that MK's have open diffs and limited articulation which ultimately limits their performance offroad in many situations. Momentum helps a lot, in a FDI you will have to tackle obstacles at a higher speed vs the FDII, the FDII allows you to crawl along in a more controlled manner. In my FDII I sometimes find I need more momentum to get through an obstacle. (as the video above shows)
The FDII's application of aggressive BLD and low range is what will send it farther down a trail and higher up a hill than a FDI, its just reality.
Here is a video from a member that used to post on here FDI, looks like he has Yokohama Geolander AT/S tires
He gets through the snow alright but it is a struggle at times, in no way am I suggesting that I would have been able to walk through that like nothing everything offroad situation is different.
Here is a better video, showing the BLD is some more challenging situations.
As you can see in this case it works but it takes a lot of wheelspin before they kick in and then it just gets over the obstacle (in this case)
I don't look down upon FDI Mk's but if someone wanted to go offroad in semi challenging environment the FDII is the model to choose IF you had to choose only an MK, if you wanted a more offroad vehicle, there are others.
I have gone to great lengths to test out the 4x4 AWD system on both of my Mk's and taken my compass through some pretty decent offroad obstacles, many of which people thought I was nuts to even try.
I welcome you and others to prove me wrong and take some videos of FDI MK's offroad.
Once again I say this with the utmost respect as i'm not trying to start a flame war or anything. I'm just going on facts.
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what you said was right. I have a fd2 and it is more off road capable then a fd1. thats why they gave fd2 a low range. its like taking a regular wrangler on the Rubicon trail vs taking a Rubicon wrangler.
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I mostly agree. It seems that as long as you can keep it above 3-5 mph FD1 does superb. It's once you stop or get stuck that the low ratio and more aggressive BLDs take the cake. There have been quite a few instances where I have gone uphill on 2 kiddie corner wheels but you have to have a small bump of 3-5 mph.
Also I've noticed if you don't mind a bit of tire wear sometimes you can just leave the throttle pegged and turn the tires side to side and make it. It sometimes takes the computer a bit to figure out it needs more brakes.
Another thing, once the computer has figured out it needs a lot of brake then it stays more sensitive for a while. (might have to shift to park and back to get them to ease up)
Also I've noticed if you don't mind a bit of tire wear sometimes you can just leave the throttle pegged and turn the tires side to side and make it. It sometimes takes the computer a bit to figure out it needs more brakes.
Another thing, once the computer has figured out it needs a lot of brake then it stays more sensitive for a while. (might have to shift to park and back to get them to ease up)
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The CVT is not for everyone that is for sure. I don't mind the CVT but it's because I drive conservatively and know my compass is pretty slow so i'm not looking to rip around that much. I do however get pretty good mileage around town even though I have FDII,
If they offered FDII with a manual I would have picked one up in a heartbeat, one theory they didn't offer it on FDII is possibly with the aggressive BLD it may have been more prone to stalling, BLD requires steady throttle input, and most people's tendency is to let off the gas when wheels start to spin.
There has to be some reason why you still can't FDII without anything other than a CVT transmission.
One drive system i'd love to see is the Active Drive 2 system with the 2.4L. The ADII system in my wife's Cherokee works awesome, has low range and has zero problems when using the BLD.
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I've been in some spots were I was glad I had low gear and my cvt were a fd1 wouldn't make it at all. ever see the YouTube video of a white patriot going up on a rock that he had 2 tires in the air. fd1 wouldn't even made that at all.
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The main reason why you can't get FD2 with either manual or Hyundai 6 speed is because of gearing. The world engine doesn't make enough torque so they have to compensate with the CVT's gearing to climb and get over obstacles. Since mine is mostly a daily driver, I value the mpg (not to mention its a helluva lot cheaper and more reliable) of the 5 speed more than the off road worthiness of the CVT/FD2. City MPG isn't too bad with CVT. Highway mpg sucks with it.
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That's funny. My FDii with CVT gets an average of 24.8 MPG. on the highway I am averaging 25.4. Those with a CVT equipped FDi are getting over 30 on the highway, and those with a CVT equipped FWD are doing even better. The whole reason for using the CVT was higher MPG. It brings up the average of the entire jeep line which in turn helps them stay in compliance with federal MPG rating regulations. The CVT will out MPG almost any other transmission if all others variables remain the same. (the reason why more and more manufacturers are using them on more and more models) The reason why the FDii's have a lower MPG rating has nothing to do with the CVT, but instead os do to the final drive ratio. The lower ration means higher RPM's for a given ground speed. Therefore using more gas for the same distance.
I'm glad your happy with your 5 speed. Many others are as well. The CVT is not what makes the FDii off road worthy. It is as others have pointed out, the lower final drive ratio, and more aggressive BLD's. Then there are other small things advertised such as better sealing, and relocated driveline vents, and hill decent control.
The only head slapper with the FDii is they put 17 inch wheels on it. I think most FDii owners would agree that they would have rather had 16 inch wheels so that they had more/better options for aftermarket tires than what are offered in 17 inch sizes and fit on our patriots.
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Amen DangerAaron. I much prefer the CVT in my 2014 FDII Patriot over my wife's 6spd 2014 FDI Patriot. I hope to make more direct comparisons between our two vehicles as adventures permit in the upcoming months. Excellent post Tyler-98-W68, very informative.
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