Courtesy Lights Install

Mak001 · May 18, 2008

Courtesy Lights Install *Updated and In Need of Help*

So I purchased 2 CCFL tubes from retro-soulutions.com (ordered 55W 6000K HIDs from them too) and im going to install them as footwell courtesy lights. They have a resistor that both are plugged into that can handle the ups and downs of a 12V battery so power is not a problem. The problem is I cant for the life of me find where the Dome Lights power and ground runs to in my car. Im thinking the best way to wire them is to splice them into the dome lights since they turn on when the car door is opened, and I can turn them on with when I want with the switch. If anyone has experience with the dome light wiring, please help me locate the closest cable to tie into near the foot well. I can run wires far, but I would prefer to find a close one. Thanks!

todde702 · May 18, 2008

I haven't actually looked, but I'd imaging there's some type of door jamb switch to register when the door is opened or closed. That should be closer to the footwell's then the dome's themselves.

Wade · May 18, 2008

Makrinos001,

Here's a link to the document on NearlyNormalJimmy's website that explains the dome light wiring.

Dome Light Wiring PDF

Hope it helps.... And send a great big Thank You message to Jimmy when you get the tubes wired in. And post some pictures...

Mak001 · May 20, 2008

Yea I have already looked at that but thanks. I understand HOW its wired. I just find out WHERE its wired at. I got my 12v tester and I keep taking off pillar panels to look for the wires, but all I find is the side curtain air bag wiring. wtf is this wiring. It should only be a hot and ground wire. I have the sport so the only switch for the dome lights is the one on the steering collum. Anyone have any other information about where they run the wires for the dome light. I dont care if its far or not. I got plenty of wires for running it.

Thanks in advance.

Mak001 · May 22, 2008

Didnt remember seeing rules against bumping, so...

Bump:smiley_aagv:

I really need any information on where the dome lights, or any other light that comes on when the doors open, is run. I just need to tie in my custom courtesy lights into it so I can have them come on when the door opens, not just by the switch I installed. I will have pictures of the lights in 2 days. They look great and are very bright white lights, to go with my LED dome lights.

Mak001 · May 27, 2008

Ok update on the courtesy light install. I have the lights installed and mounted under both footwells, with a switch installed. There are 2 lights on each side, with each having its own transformer. I ran both to the acc pole on the switch, grounded the grounds for both, alone with the pole for ground, then ran the power pole to the batter with an inline fuse.However, integrating them into the dome lights took a turn for the worse...

I finally found where the dome lights are run. They run down the A pillar on the drivers side above the dash. I snapped on a quick splice connector and ran the line to both power lines for each transformer, past the switch so opening the doors and turning the knob on the steering collum would turn them on. However when I switch the dome lights on, I hear a low mechanical whine. It is comming from each transformer. The place that I bought the lights from said that the transformers could handle the ups and dows of a 12 volt battery. The lights work with power straight from the battery, however they will not light up when connected to the dome lights. And on top of that, the dome lights will not work as well. I disconnected the line running to the footwell lights, and the dome lights resumed normal working order.

Any freaking ideas why the hot from the dome light wont power them? There were 2 wires running down the pillar, and I tapped into the yellow wire (the only other wire available was black, so i figured that was ground).

Could use all the help I could get!

psaulesl · Jun 1, 2008

Makrinos001,
Probe the Hot (12V) line at the transformer. Now turn on the dome light. Do you see a drop in voltage?

The wiring is probably sized for only the current to the dome light. When you load it up with extra current draw, there will be an additional voltage drop.

Voltage delivered to your new lights transformer primary is the battery voltage, less the drop across your wiring.
Vdrop=I*R where "I" is the current, and R is the small resistance of the wire harness.
The resistance is small, but will contribute a bigger voltage drop when the current is increased. More current, more voltage drop from the battery to the point of load.

Unless you can run an additional 12V supply line, and use a relay or solid state switch to control it using the dome light's Hot, you can only try to reduce the load (smaller/less/dimmer).

Good Luck!

Mak001 · Jun 2, 2008

Thank you so much for the response psaulesl! I figured that was the case. unfortunatly in the case of CCFL lights, they neeeeeed a certain amount of volts, or else they dont work. I even extended the wires from the transformer to the lights by 7" and half the light didnt light up. Gonna half to figure something out.

Soundy · Jun 2, 2008

If you're plugging a resistor inline with the lights, keep in mind that's going to cause a voltage drop as well, and that could be your problem.

If voltage fluctuations are REALLY that big an issue, you want to use a voltage regulator, not a resistor... but somehow I doubt that would be the case if the things are designed to be installed in a car in the first place.

Do you have any specs on these lights, specifically their current requirements? What value is the included resistor? I can't imagine them drawing so much current that simply extending the wire a few inches would drop the voltage enough for them to not work.

Mak001 · Jun 2, 2008

Ill get the specs tomorrow but I was just as amazed as you. Added no more then 8" of wire and only half the light (and that was just one light, as each transformer connects to 2 lights) lit up.

Soundy · Jun 2, 2008

What's the make/model of this kit? Just thinking I might be able to look it up online.

Keep in mind that the transformer unit isn't JUST a transformer - a physical transformer requires a pulsed or AC signal to work, and your car's system provides DC current. The module would probably include some sort of oscillator circuit to produce an AC signal that the transformer can then step up to the few-hundred volts the CCFL tubes require. A small voltage difference on the input could mean a fairly large difference in the output.

Mak001 · Jun 3, 2008

Got them from retro-soultions.com. 6" white ccfl tubes.

Soundy · Jun 3, 2008

Hmm, their site is pretty much useless...

psaulesl · Jun 3, 2008

Adding MORE wire will just make the voltage drop larger.

A Larger voltage drop in your supply wiring means the voltage available to your lights is lower. Probably too low to adequately supply them.

You need to get power to your lights from the battery with a larger diameter wire (lower gauge) and control it using the dome light as a signal, OR replace the wire to the dome light, and to your courtesy lights with a thicker diameter wire.

You need THICKER wire, or a SHORTER wire (not possible), or less loading.

Soundy · Jun 3, 2008

The best specs I can find on these types of CCFLs say the tubes draw 5mA at 680V. Stepping up from 12V, that means current draw at 12V, assuming a 100% efficient conversion, will be less than 300mA. AT MOST I'd expect them to draw 500mA from the car (accounting for inverter losses).

You'd have to add several HUNDRED feet of wire for it to cause a significant voltage drop at that draw... either that or be using something about 1/4 the thickness of a human hair. If 8" of wire is dropping enough voltage for the lights to stop working, there's a bigger problem somewhere else.

Mak001 · Jun 3, 2008

psaulesl said:
Adding MORE wire will just make the voltage drop larger.

A Larger voltage drop in your supply wiring means the voltage available to your lights is lower. Probably too low to adequately supply them.

You need to get power to your lights from the battery with a larger diameter wire (lower gauge) and control it using the dome light as a signal, OR replace the wire to the dome light, and to your courtesy lights with a thicker diameter wire.

You need THICKER wire, or a SHORTER wire (not possible), or less loading.

I already have a 12 gauge wire running from my battery (with inline fuse) to a switch, then I tied the 2 sets of lights (I bought 2 sets, each with 2 lights = 4 total lights and 2 transformers) into the accessory connection on the switch, then grounded them all to the chassi. How would I go about making the wire from the dome light into a signal, and using the hot line from my bettery to power the lights. Before when I was going to simply connect the dome light hot line to the hot line for both the lights, after the switch, that would allow me to power on the lights by just opening the door.

Where should I go from here.

psaulesl · Jun 4, 2008

Yes, but the voltage drop looks like it's coming from the dome light.
I think the comment was that the CCFL's work, if the dome light isn't on.

Probing the voltage delivered to the dome light with the CCFL's disconnected is probably the best way to see what's really being delivered.

Soundy · Jun 4, 2008

If the voltage is dropping too much when the dome light comes on, I'd suggest that the line is being hooked up wrong. I haven't seen a wiring diagram for the riot, but a typical basic dome light circuit is pretty simple: power is fed to the bulb, and from the bulb a wire goes to the door pins, and from there to ground. Door opens, switch closes, circuit is completed.

In this type of setup, you don't try to get your power from the dome circuit; you take your power from the battery (12ga. is way overkill; even with a 1A current draw, 18ga will be more than sufficient), then tie the ground into the door-pin circuit, between the light and the switch, so that when any of the switches close, it grounds your CCFL circuit as well.

There are a few variations on the theme, but as far as I know, almost all Chryslers (and modern Jeeps, by extension) follow this design.

homac · Jun 4, 2008

I agree with Soundy. Having a bit of a background in electrical 21 or 18 gauge wire is sufficient for 1A at 12 volts.

If I had to guess I would say the new lights being added are taking much more than 1A or something is miss wired as mentioned above.

Soundy said:
If the voltage is dropping too much when the dome light comes on, I'd suggest that the line is being hooked up wrong. I haven't seen a wiring diagram for the riot, but a typical basic dome light circuit is pretty simple: power is fed to the bulb, and from the bulb a wire goes to the door pins, and from there to ground. Door opens, switch closes, circuit is completed.

In this type of setup, you don't try to get your power from the dome circuit; you take your power from the battery (12ga. is way overkill; even with a 1A current draw, 18ga will be more than sufficient), then tie the ground into the door-pin circuit, between the light and the switch, so that when any of the switches close, it grounds your CCFL circuit as well.

There are a few variations on the theme, but as far as I know, almost all Chryslers (and modern Jeeps, by extension) follow this design.

Soundy · Jun 4, 2008

Okay, well I should partially take that back, having found this wiring diagram (thanks to nearly.normal.jimmy):

From this, it looks as though you DO want to draw power for your CCFLs from the Courtesy Lamps Driver feed, which would be the Yellow/White wire (in theory, any location of these wires should work; note that that should be a yellow wire with a white stripe, not vice-versa), and then simply ground the CCFL inverter module's ground wire to the chassis.

Only potential problem I can see with this is that the lights dimming after the door is closed may cause strange behaviour with the inverter, but if that's the case, you can pull CCFL power from the battery directly, and trigger a relay of the YL/WT circuit.

Actually, the dimmer may be the source of your problem as it is: a DC lamp dimmer doesn't typically lower the voltage, it just reduces the duty cycle of the power... like flipping the switch on-and-off very rapidly, and reducing the ON time gradually to fade out the lights. It's possible that even with the doors open (ie. the lights "fully on") the module isn't outputting straight DC, but maybe just a pulsed signal at 95%-98% duty cycle. Your voltage will still read at or near 12-14VDC, but the pulsed power would very likely cause problems with the CCFLs' inverter.

In this case, a relay should definitely do the trick. A basic BOSCH automotive relay (often sold for hooking up driving/fog lights) is readily available and will work nicely. I can whip up a diagram for wiring that, if you need.

That said, I only PARTIALLY take it back - I still maintain wire gauge and length is NOT your problem.

Courtesy Lights Install

Mak001

todde702

Wade

Mak001

Mak001

Mak001

psaulesl

Mak001

Soundy

Mak001

Soundy

Mak001

Soundy

psaulesl

Soundy

Mak001

psaulesl

Soundy

homac

Soundy

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