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Why are Pats so poorly reviewed?

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6.1K views 41 replies 15 participants last post by  John Smeton  
J
#1 · (Edited)
Hi Guys/Gals,

TL;DR version: Why are the patriots continuously snubbed in every review?


I'm supposed to be doing homework right now, but having ADD bad, Jeeping is so much fun, executive level regression models for revenue, not so much fun. Either way, I've got a bad habit of getting extremely infatuated with vehicles when I purchase them, and trying to figure out everything I can about them as fast as I can.

That being said, I've not had much luck with vehicles. Last car was a 2004 Jetta TDI, which have some of the biggest enthusiast fan bases, (but after turbo replacement, clutch replacement, serpentine tensioner replacement, to the tune of about $4500, and then get it back and the front end goes within about 5k miles it lost its "cool" factor and it was a total pile of crap). Every time I fixed something major, something else major broke. My 2007 Sentra Spec V's BCM died on me after 75k miles (another $4000) repair.

So, I decided against purchasing another used car, and went for something new, in my budget, and American. I had an 2001 XJ in high school, and loved it so I figured what the heck. Read the reviews, and found them to be terrible all the way around, every year model, every trim level was terrible. Test drove the vehicle anyways, and fell in love (2014 Sport FDII). Now aside from the difference in fuel mileage, it's a better car in every way than my previous two, and I prefer it more than my wife's 2013 Rogue SV. It's comfortable, quiet, has all the options I could need, and I can get her dirty without having to really worry about harming it. The acceleration is about on par with the TDI, as well as the Rogue, Spec V was a pocket rocket so wasn't expecting a competition. I hated the new Escape, as they felt small, loud, and weak (1.6l Ecoboost) with a significantly larger price tag. Juke was too small for me (I'm 6'7"). Tacoma, Tundra, Frontier, and Titan, were all extremely expensive for what options came with them.

All around, the Patriot was the best price, best equipment options, most comfrotable, just as safe, and if I had gone 2wd would have been comparable in mileage. So why all the hate from Edmunds, Consumer Reports, JDPower?
 
E
#2 · (Edited)
Because Edmunds, Consumer Reports and JDPower rate cars based on how practical and reliable they are. The Patriot, compared to the other small SUVs/Crossovers on the market is not as practical or as reliable as other cars like the CRV, RAV4, CX5, or Forester. These cars have more interior space, and are more reliable.

What makes a Jeep desirable is its personality and style -- both things that are ignored by these car reviewers. If you want to see a review that takes those things into account, I suggest you take a look at a different website. TFLCar.com just did a review of the Patriot a couple of weeks ago. Take a look at that one. It was a good review and they gave the car a good rating.

http://www.tflcar.com/2013/10/2014-...013/10/2014-jeep-patriot-review-back-basics-traditional-automatic-transmission/


You have to understand that not everyone is looking for the same thing in a car. For example, many car sites assume that "more cargo space" means the car is better. For myself, I'd rather a smaller vehicle, so more space is not a good thing. Keep that in mind when reading a review. If they complain about something, ask yourself if you really care about that particular issue.
 
J
#3 ·
I guess I don't see a more practical vehicle, or I have a different definition of practical.

I test drove nearly all of those vehicles you mentioned, and was not impressed at all. Why my wide ended up with the Rogue instead of something different. The only option was the Forrester, but look at Subaru reliability lately... Not as advertised I'll say that much (fuel consumption isn't great either) and a premium price. Owned 3 newer Honda's in my day (Crv, accord, pilot), and while extremely reliable, handled like crap, low ground clearance, underpowered, and little available rear legroom or storage. The test drive of the escape ended because the rear legroom was not sufficient for my wife when I was in the driver's seat, and the 1.6 ecoboost was God awful (slow and loud) and real world mpg and reliability is in question currently.

The rogue was peppy, a good price with decent options, good interior room front and back (passed the seat test the escape failed), and handled extremely well, the only downside was cargo room and rear visibility, gets 27-28 real world mpg on hwy. In my opinion my patriot is better in every way, sans fuel mileage, than my rogue, and my rogue was better than anything we test drove before that.

Doesn't quite add up...:what:
 
E
#7 · (Edited)
A couple of things:

1) The Forester with the auto transmission (the way 90%+ buy it) is rated for 32 mpg highway. The CRV is rated for 30 mpg. The Patriot with the 6-speed auto transmission is rated for 27 mpg, and with the CVT only 23 mpg. Those are not what Consumer Reports says, those are what the car manufacturers say.

2) I'm not sure which years you looked at these cars, but the new Forester, RAV4 and CRV are much larger vehicles than the Patriot, in both passenger space and cargo room. As someone who has no kids and rarely puts someone in the back seat, I don't really care about those things, but I can see how someone with a family may care.

3) Subaru/Honda/Toyota are known to have much better reliability than Jeep. Sad to say, but true. If you don't believe the ratings, you can just look at the forums. Half the threads in this forum are about people who have had some sort of problem. Read forums for these other cars and rarely do you see any such threads, and mostly just see threads about modifications, stereo upgrades, etc.

That all said, I decided to get a Patriot because I want a smaller car, I wanted something with more personality and style than the bland CRV/RAV4, and I'm leasing so reliability isn't something that I'm worried about.

But if I had a family and needed more space, and was planning to keep the car for 10 years, I may have considered getting one of those other cars. I did heavily consider getting a Subaru XV Crosstrek.
 
#4 · (Edited)
well as you can see on his review he said if it was cvt he would rent it and not lease it.
and the 2014 he would lease( going buy their four options)

thats just his opinion though. my opinion while cvt is more risky, if its in your budget go for it; otherwise theres plenty of similar options like ford escape

i personally would rather have a 6 speed automatic(2014 version) and unless I come across a lot more money, I have to do what is in my budget.
 
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J
#6 ·
He had a semi favorable review on it. I think most people have issues with the cvt is simply because they're not used to them.

I like the point that every review hated the cvt until Subaru started using it then they began claiming CVT's were amazing.

I guess I'm just seeing review bias in every realm. Seems GM had been favored since the bailout. Toyota and Honda remain favorites even though there have been numerous recalls based on safety and reliability. Subaru is in the same boat.
 
C
#8 · (Edited)
I have had people come up to me and ask me how the Patriot performs in snow and I said it likes snow. One person told me the CRV AWD was horrible in snow. And if I was cutting through the UP of Michigan trails in the Winter, I would feel most confident with my Pat. And I feel safe with friends and family in my car in bad weather, I don't know if I could say that with the others. And maybe all of what I say is not important to you but it is important that my posse stays safe on my guard.

And we all know car companies pay off magazines to kill models and praise others. It's business folks.:zzz:
 
E
#9 ·
Coppertrailer said:
I have had people come up to me and ask me how the Patriot performs in snow and I said it likes snow. One person told me the CRV AWD was horrible in snow. And if I was cutting through the UP of Michigan trails in the Winter, I would feel most confident with my Pat. And I feel safe with friends and family in my car in bad weather, I don't know if I could say that with the others. And maybe all of what I say is not important to you but it is important that my posse stays safe on my guard.
Click to expand...
Yes, most of the other cars are more meant for pavement, and not as good off-road or in the snow. However, Subarus are probably every bit as good as Jeeps in the snow. My decision on which car to get was narrowed down to the Patriot and Subaru Crosstrek. I decided on the Patriot because I preferred the styling and I like the stereo/navigation options better in the Patriot. But take a look at this video of the Crosstrek in the snow off-road:

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J
#10 ·
We looked at the Crv, Forrester, Rogue, and escape this summer.

Again Forrester was closest to what we were looking for, but was not impressed with room, power, and having a few (separate) friends that had complete motor failures on their boxer motors, was leery.

Crv was just uninspiring, seating was uncomfortable, drove like an old conversion van.

The interior of the escape was terrible, cheap really cheap feeling. Sync was worthless, motor was loud and weak.

Again all the cars are comparable some benefits and drawbacks to all of them, but price wise Ford, Subaru, and Honda were all almost 20% more expensive than both the Jeep and Nissan. That's a lot of fuel purchase lol...

I think fuel efficiency is weighted heavily on the reviews because otherwise these guys are smoking something.
 
E
#11 · (Edited)
I think size was a big factor as well. The patriot is about 7-10 inches shorter in total length than those other cars (RAV4/CRV/Forester/Escape). With the seats folded, the Patriot offers about 53 cubic feet of space, while the others offer around 70. All of those reviews never fail to mention that.

In truth, the new Cherokee is really more comparable to those cars. The Patriot is a smaller vehicle and more comparable to the Mitsubishi Outlander Sport, Subaru Crosstrek, and Buick Encore (all of which are in the 168-175 inch range, and all of which have similar interior cargo space to the Patriot).

And BTW, my mom has the new Forester and I find it hard to believe that you liked the power of the Patriot better than that of the Forester. As I'm currently without a car (I sold my car last month), I drove my mom's Forester to the dealership to test drive the Patriot. The Forester is way faster and smoother -- not even close. I drove the Patriot with the 2.4 and the 6-speed auto. Her Forester is a nice car, but it's about $4k more expensive with equal equipment, and it's larger than what I want. If only they had put the Forester engine in the Crosstrek, I would have gotten that car in a heartbeat.

The Forester is really a good vehicle and I was not surprised it won Motor Trend SUV of the year. It's well deserving. Just a little bigger and more expensive than what I want for myself.
 
J
#12 · (Edited)
Eric5273 said:
I think size was a big factor as well. The patriot is about 7-10 inches shorter in total length than those other cars (RAV4/CRV/Forester/Escape). With the seats folded, the Patriot offers about 53 cubic feet of space, while the others offer around 70. All of those reviews never fail to mention that.

In truth, the new Cherokee is really more comparable to those cars. The Patriot is a smaller vehicle and more comparable to the Mitsubishi Outlander Sport, Subaru Crosstrek, and Buick Encore (all of which are in the 168-175 inch range, and all of which have similar interior cargo space to the Patriot).
Click to expand...
True that.

One thing I noticed about the new Cherokee is the Trailhawk actually has less ground clearance than the Patriot fd2. Not that it matters just seemed odd.

Also, the cargo space seems a bit stupid to base a comparison around. It's an SUV primarily used for people hauling, I'd think if someone was really concerned about cargo space they'd buy one of those ugly commuter van things.

Edit: I didn't prefer the Jeep motor over the Forrester, I just didn't think the Forrester was all it was hyped to be, for the additional costs.
 
C
#14 · (Edited)
Subaru's best engine was the 2.2 sohc 16 valve engine. The timing chain was only geared to two camshafts, one camshaft on each side of the boxer engine. The new engines have two camshafts on each side of the engine. More of a chance for throwing the timing chain. The 2.4 World engine in the Chrysler cars have a better service record than the Subaru. Put it this way. I have never heard of a failed engine on the JP forum. Only trannys and front ends. And sunroofs. I don't have a Subaru dealer in my town. I need to be near my dealer, not spend a night in a motel waiting for my car. I like Subaru but all I know is problems with those cars as of late. I wish Subaru would have made the 2.0 engine with the old 16 valve sohc version but didn't. Wonder if Subarus have variable valve timing (VVT). Subys can't lock the 4wd so that's a big no in my book. Rogues can. Ya, and I looked at the Crosstrek video and it's easy to drive on a driven road. Not inspired sorry.
 
J
#15 ·
Coppertrailer said:
Subaru's best engine was the 2.2 sohc 16 valve engine. The timing chain was only geared to two cams, one cam on each side of the boxer engine. The new engines have two cams on each side of the engine. More of a chance for throwing the timing chain. The 2.4 World engine in the Chrysler cars have a better service record than the Subaru. Put it this way. I have never heard of a failed engine on the JP forum. Only trannys and front ends. And sunroofs. I don't have a Subaru dealer in my town. I need to be near my dealer, not spend a night in a motel waiting for my car. I like Subaru but all I know is problems with those cars as of late. I wish Subaru would have made the 2.0 engine with the old 16 valve sohc version but didn't. Wonder if Subarus have variable valve timing (VVT). Subys can't lock the 4wd so that's a big no in my book. Rogues can.
Click to expand...


You're absolutely correct.

I've had a friend who had melted two pistons in his wrx, after an engine replacement for a bad rod bearing. Another friend was in his wrx motor failed to start after taking a photo break, towed to shop with a seized motor. That was enough for me to be weary.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I think there is this rock star fan phenomenon that comes with certain brands. Apple computer, Toyota, Perhaps Subarus, which, at least in Alaska have this god like reputation for being completely reliable. I know of one Toyota fanatic who, even after buying one of the earlier T 100 pickups and needing a new engine in 40,000 miles though they were the best rigs on the road. We had a 01 forester that died at 115k with a cracked head, and before that narrowly dodged the bullet with the same rig when the automatic went out just before the warranty expired. The truth is that much of the great reputation of certain Japanese cars came from good quality they were producing in the 70 's and 80's while the comparable USA makes were really inferior. Nowadays the same comparison can't be made but the perception of superior quality is still there and in this world of misinformation, perception is 9/10th of what matters. If you want to know about Jeeps ask people who are driving them. These forums are not reliable either because people in general who are happy with their car are not on a forum singing praises, it's the ones who are having trouble, which of all Patriot owners are in my opinion the tip of the iceberg. There are literally tens of thousands of Patriots out there that are serving their owners well, that's a fact. We see how many bad ones on this forum? Not nearly enough to jump to any conclusion as to the relative quality. I for one wouldn't buy a forester built in the early 2000 era as I have seen too many of them fail here where about every 5th car on the road is a subaru. I am sure most are good but even a company like subaru that Edmonds and the other rags consider beyond reproach can make some real junk at times.
 
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#18 ·
Simply put....where I live, in Nor Cal, Sierra foothills, Amador county, where it snows, slushes, freezes and gets gnarly...around normal weather, there are obvious favorites because you pass them on the road constantly. "10 to 1" over all other brands.
Jeeps, Dodge trucks and Subaru's. Period. I told the wife, I'd love to get an official "county count". There's not even any dealers up here so it's not local influence. It's just the preferred vehicles by those who know, who live here.
 
#19 · (Edited)
It's a sales game. Manufacturers make their vehicles to please the reviewers. Patriots don't get good reviews because they can't understand it. It needs to be a first place winner in a certain area and it isn't. They want it to be one thing or the other.
The wrangler fanboys give it a hard time because it has a lot of the same parts as the dodge caliber thus say it's the same vehicle (which it's not).
Unfortunately none of the reviewers are reviewing how well CUV's do on trails or in the woods or what a killer deal it is. Offroad mags compare a $20k patriot to the $37k wrangler = patriot looses. The edmunds/motortrend folks compare a $20k patriot to the cornering, quiet ride & acceleration of the $30k+ CRV & RAV4 on the highway = patriot looses.
 
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E
#20 ·
They do the same thing to sports cars. I've read reviews that complain that a sports car doesn't have enough leg room in the back seat and has a tiny trunk. If I wanted a car with back seat room and a big trunk, why would I buy a sports car?

It really just depends on what they're looking for. Right now the only cars that really compete against the Patriot are the Compass, Mitsubishi Outlander Sport, and Subaru XV Crosstrek. Any comparison that is made against any other car is just not a valid comparison IMO.
 
J
#21 ·
Great points on all counts.

I've noticed that this community is much more about just talking and having a good time, with the common ground of owning a Patriot.

Where tdiclub vwvortex and the Nissan forums I was on was about how to make the car better, by basically changing the engineering, tuning it, or flaming someone who didn't "know what they were talking about".

I've only had my Patriot for about 800 miles, but I love it. It's my favorite car that I've owned to this point, minus my 66 Mustang, and 240SX (but those were totally different). I'm ready to take her out, get lost in the woods, get her dirty and have a great time doing it, knowing that the vehicle will capable, and that I got a hell of a deal, because something comparable from another manufacturer world have been $5k more expensive or more.
 
#22 ·
well, congratulations on the purchase. Mine's done alright at Twisted Trails offroad park and the Silver Lake Sand Dunes in Michigan, without any lift, suspension modifications, or new tires. Can't wait to see what it does once I have a suspension lift custom-fabricated. Oh, and that short wheelbase somebody mentioned before.....that's an advantage, actually. Makes it one inch shorter than the maximum wheelbase for class 3 according to the SCORE International rulebook(not hard to guess where I wanna take mine). Hope yours does well, mine's done very good over the last three years/50k miles.
 
#30 ·
Aren't subaru's already a 50/50 split in their all wheel drive? They used to be. That's why they don;t have a lock switch. If it's already full time 50/50, a lock switch is pointless.
The older subaru engines were beasts of reliability. The newer one's not so much. But, this is the trade of between quality and ease/cost of assembly. Drive around town one day and count how many subaru's you see. Then think back and try and remember what models subaru offered in 1990. They have exploded in populatrity and as such need to more quickly manufacture cars, and with more cars out there, more cars will have issues.
I'm going to stop now, because I am starting to sound like a subaru fan and I am most defintely not.
 
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#31 ·
DangerAaron said:
The older subaru engines were beasts of reliability.
Click to expand...
You aren't kidding. My brother had a 1972 DL model (1450.00 brand new) and we tore that thing up for 15 years before it finally quit. Then we dropped a used motor in it (we lifted it out, one of us on each head) and after we fixed it, he gave it to his oldest son for a college cruiser. He'd replaced it with a 1982(?) wagon and his wife drove that till the wheels fell off.
I have no clue about the new ones but they seem to be everywhere.
 
J
#33 ·
Outlander XL has the same 2.4l engine as the Patriot and its 4wd system and some suspension elements are similar (not sure about this though). X-trail has the same CVT unit as the Patriot.

Outlander XL and X-trail both got good reviews, but for some reason Patriot is labeled as rubbish. So if you want to read good Patriot reviews go read articles about Outlander and X-trail.

It's been a year with the Jeep and so far i can't say that my Patriot is rubbish. I don't like its looks and rattling and sqeaking from different places, but it's practical, has decent ground clearance and fuel consumption is rather low. I get 10.5 l/100 km in city while Outlander XL with same engine eats 14 l/100 km. Servicing costs are rather low too. It is cheaper to service than Kia.

So if the Patriot is rubbish then the competition is total garbage.
 
#34 ·
My brother had back-to-back Subi wagons back in the 'small' days. While one was totaled, he does that a lot, the second fried an engine in the hills of WV.
A buddy of mine had a Brat, didn't make 100k miles before it needed 'the valve job'. He did it twice. His second Brat had the same issue.
I'm not knocking Subarus, other than they are 'pretty ugly'.:D
My neighbor with a Rav and its old three piece rear bumper bitches constantly about the trim being loose, he does some dirting, but knows how hard we push the Pat on the same trails. He says the Jeep is just that, the Rav isn't.
On my way into town today I was thinking about how Japan has qiven up on true off-roaders like the old Pathfinders, Samaris and such. They make CUVs for the pavement.
Keeping ours 'til she starts fighting us. 6.5 years and counting.
Please don't buy your next vehicle from some review in any of the auto rags. Take it out and drive it and decide for yourself. Remember, a test-drive is free! These mags cost more than they are worth.
A Q5 vs a Patriot, that's a Riot!
 
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#39 ·
NEVER!
 
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