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Les-R

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
*tap-tap-tap* This thing on?

Okay, well...

Just thinking, maybe, on a new Patriot.. some background first.

I'd spent the longest time running around in a 1998 S-10 Blazer, put a lot of miles on that thing and it served me fairly well. Then it got so old things started to regularly break-down on it and gas started getting higher and higher, so it was time to replace.

In 2012 I was on the market for something new, living out in the middle of nowhere I knew I needed one of two things... some mild off-road capability for all the dirt roads and open pasture, especially after it's been raining; or really great gas-mileage for making those long trips (Out here, Everything is a long trip) and knowing I was unlikely to get both.

So, I got a 2012 Kia Soul, nicely optioned-up. Some things I liked about it.

1) It's big on the inside, Really big, for a compact it's got gargantuan interior room. It's practically a Tardis on wheels.

2) Great gas mileage, 35 Highway EPA.

3) Lots of G-whiz technical doo-dads, like the UVO voice system.

4) The boomy-boomy flashy-lighty things in the speakers.


Financial situation at the time kind of spurred me on to take the deal Now, it's got 14-15000 miles on it but some things have changed.

A) Kia had a naughty with the EPA, turns out it's Highway MPG is really 28.

B) Never did figure-out how that UVO thing worked.

C) It didn't come with a spare tire, so I assumed it had run-flats. Turns out it don't have run-flats.

D) Got bored with the boomy-boomy flashy-lighty things after about a week. :D

On the plus side, still quite roomy for it's size, Edmunds says it's got a resale somewhere in the $15,000-$16,000 range

So, plan B, went looking and found a local dealer who could wrangle me up a minimal-frills 2014 Patriot 4wd, manual transmission. The Patriot I test drove seemed pretty keen, only solid knock I could find against it (though it wasn't exactly like the model I was looking for) was that the arm-rest made fastening the seatbelt a bit tedious and awkward. Got to the negotiating phase and after he told me there was a $6000 difference between what the trade-in would get me and what would get me into the Patriot I told him I'd think about it.

$6000 is doable, but more than I'm really comfortable with, so that's why I'm here really.

Is it worth it? Could I get a better deal at another dealership? Am I completely insane for wanting to trade-in a car this new?

HALP!
 
#3 ·
" Am I completely insane for wanting to trade-in a car this new? "

Yeah, probably, since the first year of ownership kills you on depreciation.... and if you think about it, say you buy a 24k patriot, and you roll 6k into it, then you pay taxes and fees on top of that. suddenly you're at 33k loan for a 24k car, that instanly becomes a 20k car when you drive it off the lot....

Rolling negative equity into a new car is not the best idea... have you looked into what the kia is worth if you sell it privately? maybe pay it down 2-3k (vs 6k) to sell it, then you can buy a jeep...

Is the jeep worth buying? yes! would I pay grand cherokee/wrangler money for it? no.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
aroundincircles said:
" Am I completely insane for wanting to trade-in a car this new? "

Yeah, probably, since the first year of ownership kills you on depreciation.... and if you think about it, say you buy a 24k patriot, and you roll 6k into it, then you pay taxes and fees on top of that. suddenly you're at 33k loan for a 24k car, that instanly becomes a 20k car when you drive it off the lot....

Rolling negative equity into a new car is not the best idea... have you looked into what the kia is worth if you sell it privately? maybe pay it down 2-3k (vs 6k) to sell it, then you can buy a jeep...

Is the jeep worth buying? yes! would I pay grand cherokee/wrangler money for it? no.
Click to expand...

The Kia is paid for. I'm talking about a cash-deal with the Patriot, this dealer says there's $6,000 difference the trade-in and the cost of the new Patriot.. in cash.

When I say $6,000 is 'doable' I mean I have the money, it'd just be digging a bit deeper into my savings than I'd really like to.
 
Discussion starter · #6 · (Edited)
aroundincircles said:
Oh... Got you, that's all you would pay is 6k, you would probably still be better off selling it privately. Do you have the window sticker for the pat you are looking at?
Click to expand...
Afraid not.. at the dealer the one spec'd out the way I would've liked it was still at the factory (he cast a wide net looking for it), but from the way it was described (Tire option, power windows, A/C, basic stereo) I recreated it on the configurator and it comes back as something in the $22,000-$23,000 mark (MSRP, not Invoice).

The one I test drove was a 2.0 FWD, not the 2.4 4WD (They didn't have any of those on the lot at the time.) The 2.0 felt a bit sluggish when pushed, but so does the Soul. Only with the Patriot it felt more due to being underpowered than anything, in the Soul the sluggishness has a feel of it being the transmission (it's an auto) just being 'Durrrr'.

As for selling it privately, well.. then I'd have no way to get to the dealership, which is 60 miles away (told you I lived in the middle of nowhere.) :D

Edit: Basically, foot hard down...

2.0L Patriot: "I Think I can, I Think I can..."

2.0L Soul: "Now, I know I have the right gear in here somewhere..."
:D
 
#7 ·
Here's my take, and this is just the way I would see it if it were me in your situation. You mention you want four wheel drive. The jeep has it, the Kia doesn't. You mention gas mileage is important. Both vehicles are pretty good in this department. But, a 4 wheel drive patriot will be hard pressed to beat your current gas mileage. So, is 4 wheel drive worth 6 grand to you? If so, then go for it. If not, then pass. As has already been mentioned, if you want a manual trans look for a 2013. No other difference between it and a 2014 except in 2013 you could get a 5 speed manual or a CVT trans. In 2014 you can get a 5 speed manual or a 6 speed auto trans. Any of the trail rated models are CVT. Also, instead of buying a sport with a bunch of options, look into the latitude model. It has probably all the options you would add to a sport, plus some, and a lot of times it ends up being cheaper. If having 4 wheel drive is worth the cost to you, look hard for a new 2013 manual or 2014 auto. I drove an hour and a half away to find exactly what I wanted when I purchased mine. Use the dealer locator on the Jeep site and then at their online inventory.
 
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Discussion starter · #8 ·
DangerAaron said:
Here's my take, and this is just the way I would see it if it were me in your situation. You mention you want four wheel drive. The jeep has it, the Kia doesn't. You mention gas mileage is important. Both vehicles are pretty good in this department. But, a 4 wheel drive patriot will be hard pressed to beat your current gas mileage. So, is 4 wheel drive worth 6 grand to you? If so, then go for it. If not, then pass. As has already been mentioned, if you want a manual trans look for a 2013. No other difference between it and a 2014 except in 2013 you could get a 5 speed manual or a CVT trans. In 2014 you can get a 5 speed manual or a 6 speed auto trans. Any of the trail rated models are CVT. Also, instead of buying a sport with a bunch of options, look into the latitude model. It has probably all the options you would add to a sport, plus some, and a lot of times it ends up being cheaper. If having 4 wheel drive is worth the cost to you, look hard for a new 2013 manual or 2014 auto. I drove an hour and a half away to find exactly what I wanted when I purchased mine. Use the dealer locator on the Jeep site and then at their online inventory.
Click to expand...
There are other factors.

I'm willing to take a hit to MPG for 4WD, or ditch 4WD for great MPG. Since the EPA spanked Kia recently for fibbing it turns out the Soul gets good MPG, not Great MPG.

Little things... the Patriot has a real manual latch to it's lift-gate and not an electronic switch (Which isn't connected to any sort of lift-gate release controlable from the cabin or from the key-fob, like my 14-year-old Blazer had.) And it has a manually opened non-locking fuel-filler cap cover (I still keep forgetting to release the fuel-filler cap when I stop for gas). The Kia has lots if nifty keen electronic do-hickies, most of which I've either gotten bored with or never could figure out in the first place.

One Big thing though is that the Kia Soul has no spare tire, it has no place on the options list for a spare tire, no provision for mounting a spare tire after-market (or stow all the kit needed to change a spare). At first I assumed this meant it had run-flat tires. Turns out it doesn't have run-flat tires. Not so much a problem for an urban-dweller. I'm not an urban-dweller. The Patriot has a full-sized spare tire.

The money is still making me iffy, but not by much. I'd be more comfortable a t $5000 but the dealer won't budge below $6000.

I'm assuming all or most folks here have a 4WD Patriot with the 2.4L engine, which weren't available for me to test-drive at the time. Is there anything anyone can add to help give that nudge one way or the other? On-road, Off-road, just general living-with-it?
 
#9 · (Edited)
I love my 2.4L 4WD FDI CVT Patriot on the road. It handles the road pretty darn good. It actually rides smoother than the Honda Accord one of my family members owns. Now as far as off road, I can't really testify about that, most I've done is gravel forest roads, which is handled great. I'm looking forward to finding some more serious trails to see what the Patriot really can do.
 
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#10 ·
i have the FDII package. it does excellent off road, check out my links in my sig for links to pictures and vids.

The manual does not come with the FDII package, just the FDI, but the manual would be good off road. if you can find a left over 2013, that meets your needs, as stated before you might get a better deal.

I would look for one with the all weather capability group. IIRC it gives you the 17" rims with the wrangler sra tires, and a full size spare. (as well as other options) I know the FDII package comes with a full sized spare, not sure which other package does as well.
 
#11 ·
For 22-23k, make sure it comes with a 2.4L. It had plenty of power, and negligible if any mpg difference. My FDII limited msrp was around 28k, I ended up paying closer to 24k

Sent from my Nexus 4
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
aroundincircles said:
i have the FDII package. it does excellent off road, check out my links in my sig for links to pictures and vids.

The manual does not come with the FDII package, just the FDI, but the manual would be good off road. if you can find a left over 2013, that meets your needs, as stated before you might get a better deal.

I would look for one with the all weather capability group. IIRC it gives you the 17" rims with the wrangler sra tires, and a full size spare. (as well as other options) I know the FDII package comes with a full sized spare, not sure which other package does as well.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice, I've already done a lot of homework, know the Trail-Rating only comes with a CVT and all that, have read a lot of reviews.. (Car& Driver says, "Boo, it's a Dodge Caliber on Stilts, Boooo-Hiss-Boooo", The Truth About Cars says, "It's not a bad CUV, it just needs a little love [/Charlie Brown Christmas]) It's the info and opinions of the real people day to day living with one of these that I'm after.

Also, thanks for the advice on the all-weather group. I live in the southerly portion of the US so Engine Block heaters aren't in high demand but all the other stuff it adds does make it sound like a better deal than just the straight tire-group, I'll be sure to ask about that.

The kind of terrain where I'd most likely need this kind of capability isn't hard-core rock-crawling. Mostly just un-paved roads that are more clay than gravel and get very 'interesting' when it rains, also lots of rolling pasture-ground, various inclines and tall grass and Woops where'd that mud-hole come from? That kind of thing. The times I've had to take the Soul off-pavement I've felt a lot less confident than I expected to be, even on just clean grass tracks.

The FD I, is that a full-time capable system or is it strictly slick/rough condition use?
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
MrJeepR44 said:
For 22-23k, make sure it comes with a 2.4L. It had plenty of power, and negligible if any mpg difference. My FDII limited msrp was around 28k, I ended up paying closer to 24k

Sent from my Nexus 4
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm gunning for 4WD and from what I can gather that means the 2.4L by default, which I appreciate. They didn't have any 2.4's on the lot at the time I was exploring the possibility of a Patriot so I only got a 2.0 to test-drive and it felt kinda wheezy (It was an automatic, but at least it's auto wasn't as Derp as the Kia's). I take it the 2.4 alleviates any push or twist (Horsepower/Torque) deficiencies the 2.0 had?
 
#14 ·
Les-R said:
Thanks for the advice, I've already done a lot of homework, know the Trail-Rating only comes with a CVT and all that, have read a lot of reviews.. (Car& Driver says, "Boo, it's a Dodge Caliber on Stilts, Boooo-Hiss-Boooo", The Truth About Cars says, "It's not a bad CUV, it just needs a little love [/Charlie Brown Christmas]) It's the info and opinions of the real people day to day living with one of these that I'm after.

Also, thanks for the advice on the all-weather group. I live in the southerly portion of the US so Engine Block heaters aren't in high demand but all the other stuff it adds does make it sound like a better deal than just the straight tire-group, I'll be sure to ask about that.

The kind of terrain where I'd most likely need this kind of capability isn't hard-core rock-crawling. Mostly just un-paved roads that are more clay than gravel and get very 'interesting' when it rains, also lots of rolling pasture-ground, various inclines and tall grass and Woops where'd that mud-hole come from? That kind of thing. The times I've had to take the Soul off-pavement I've felt a lot less confident than I expected to be, even on just clean grass tracks.

The FD I, is that a full-time capable system or is it strictly slick/rough condition use?
Click to expand...


The 3 big differences between a FDII and a FDI that you cannot change (like it comes with skid plates, and the FDI does not, but those can be easily added later) are the BLD, the hill decent control, and the lower gearing. These are more rock crawling features, and not so much dirt track things.

If you are good with your manual, you can make up for the lack of the lower gearing a bit, and the BLD if a feature of the traction control, that is just more specific than regular traction control, and the hill decent control is nice... and I'm glad I have it. I go crawling, well as much as I can in a patriot, so I use the FDII features quite a lot, if I didn't I wouldn't have gotten it, its a pretty good MPG hit (23mpg highway vs 28 for the FDI)

The big thing, is the ability to lock the 4wd system 50/50, which is what a typical 4x4 system does, and gives the patriot best of both worlds, awd for any situation that arises, and the ability to lock the system into a 50/50 power split when you know the traction will be lower...

a good set of tires goes a long way as well...
 
#17 ·
Around town with about 80-85% city driving like I stole it I get about 21MPG. On the highway driving a little over 80 on long trips with luggage I get about 25MPG
 
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#18 ·
My 2.4 FWD is quite fast once you push it, but it's certainly no race car. I test drove the 2.0 and 2.4 and would never even consider getting the slow 2.0.

I do wish I got the FD1 for added capability but I am very impressed with how my Jeep handles the dirt, rocks, and sand in the desert. I hope to see you upgrade into a nice Patriot, take your time and you WILL find the Jeep of your dreams. Best of luck!
 
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#19 ·
I would probably at least test-drive a 2.4 before you make a decision. I'm happy with mine, and I'm sure its better than the 2.0, but you need to know what you have going on going in. Even if your dealer doesn't have one, you may be able to find a used one for sale somewhere nearby you can test.

As for switching, I suspect it will be more like your old Blazer than the Kia. Probably a better fit for what you are doing. But it is taking a financial loss, no matter how you look at it, trading in a car with that few miles on it already.
 
#20 ·
Here is another thing to consider. How comfortable are you in the Patriot?
Do you think you could drive around in it for an hour or more?

I have a 2009, FDI 4x4, I get 24-28 MPG, my buddy "says" he gets 32-36 with his Civic. I know civic does not fall in the same group, but... I went for a small trip (2 hours out 2 back) with him. I had to fold in 2 to get in,sat on the ground, no a/c, was sore like a sob for quite awhile after.

is the difference in mpg that big at the end of the year to give up comfort and pleasure of driving.

as for the $6000, tell the dealer another dealer over in "Nextville" is willing to cut the price. If he still won't budge,talk to the manager or owner I don't think they want to lose a sale over$1000. If they still say no, walk. I am sure he will call you in a couple of days
 
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Les-R
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