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CainUSAF

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So, I was re-interested into the Jeep Patriot, when I realized, my dream truck gets 14-20 MPG, and the Jeep Patriot's average at most websites is 22+. I figure, in 20-30 years after I retire from the USAF and have my farm I can buy my truck then lol.

So, here are a few questions I have, thanks for any help:

1. Is the Jeep Patriot smaller then the Jeep Liberty by much? My dad said my mom's Jeep Liberty (2007 Jeep Liberty) is bigger then a Jeep Patriot, and that I wouldn't like the Patriot because it's "small". Frankly, it's a 4-door Jeep, too me that is more then enough lol.

2. I am hoping to get stationed @ Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota, unless I get to volunteer for a special unit in Security Forces, but here is the question: Does the power of your engine matter on ice/snow? I mean, I was told that as long as your vehicle is a 4x4 the size of the engine makes little difference on ice/snow, is this true?

Must admit, it is rather hilarious, here is why:

Dad-Older Jeep Wrangler (I believe around 14mpg)
Mom-2007 Jeep Liberty (I think like 18mpg)
Work Truck-1989 Chevy Silverado 2500 (8mpg)
Cain-2003 Ford Mustang (20-25 mpg)

So, if I end up getting a Jeep Patriot, my whole family will be driving Jeeps lol. Glad to be here, and hope you all (making up for the earlier yall) have a great day.

~Edit~ The only negative I see to getting a Jeep Patriot is the fact it's not a truck, other then that, nothing really dis-pleases me. I really love Jeep, it's a brand I know can go off-road, but also be used in the city with decent gas mileage.
 
#2 ·
I looked at Liberties first, when looking for a replacement for my Tracker (still have Tracker with 190K miles), but the mileage turned me off, most folks I talked to said they got around 17MPG, which is over $2,000 a year more in gas for me.

Power in patriot is as good, but I think mostly better, than other 4 cyl vehicles I've driven. I get 22-24 MPG in my FDII, and others I've talked to with FDI seem to get around 27 MPG.

There's a lot of room in back, but of course my back seats are always folded down. Took me a little while to learn how to pack it though, as it's not as high as the back in the Tracker, but it is a bit longer. I generally have a big dog box, big cooler, 3 big rubbermaid containers, a couple big duffel bags, a couple laptop bags, and other odds and ends in the back. During the fall, maybe a bow case or rifle case too.

The Patriot is one of the best vehicles I've driven on road, in bad weather. The system works well, even without 4x4 locked.

This morning is a great example. Yesterday morning it was raining and 55 F, this morning it was 18F and all that water on the roads (we had flooding all over yesterday with heavy rain and snow melt) was solid ice this morning. I came around a bend, road was a sheet of ice, but the Patriot handled it well. In other vehicles you would have been in rear wheel drive (Pat is FWD) and would have tried to shift into 4wd, but the Pat's system just does what it needs to do. really comes in handy for those times the snow is drifted over roads, etc, when you really don't have time to react.
 
#3 ·
The Liberty has a little more room in the back with the seats up, 25.2 cu. ft., compared to the Pat with 23. With the seats down the Pat is bigger. 62.7 compared to the Liberty with 60.9
 
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#4 ·
The Liberty has more comfortable seating room than the Pat.
For us, having two kids and taking the occasional road trip, matters.
The Patriot, no matter how much they have tried to disguise it, is a Dodge Caliber built on a modified Mitsubishi Galant platform, so it's got a relatively short wheelbase, but it does have a high ceiling.
In all of my recent test driving of 6 or 7 different vehicles, the Liberty, Grand Cherokee, Patriot, Caliber and others, the compact car roots of the Pat. were clear.
Not that this is a bad thing. It's just what it is and it's quite different than any of its siblings (save the Caliber)

As far as the power output of the engine, I felt that it was WAY down in usable power, especially in the low rpm range. For a small 4 cyl. this is not a surprise, but the cvt doesn't do it any favors.
My 2.0l 5 speed Neon would run rings around a 2.4l Pat./Caliber/Compass even though the latter has 40 more horsepower and about 30 more torque.
Granted, the Pat. weighs a couple hundred more lbs than a Neon, but the engine just feels gutless.

My wife and I really wanted a Jeep but were unwilling to pay the $$$ to continuously fill the tank in a GC or a Liberty. The Pat's we tested (both FDI/cvt models) we tried to like, but there were too many things to dislike.
My advice is that if you're set on getting one, do not drive anything less than a *trail rated* FDII model and be prepared to mod it to try and extract more power from the engine.
 
#5 ·
gtrdave said:
The Liberty has more comfortable seating room than the Pat.
For us, having two kids and taking the occasional road trip, matters.
The Patriot, no matter how much they have tried to disguise it, is a Dodge Caliber built on a modified Mitsubishi Galant platform, so it's got a relatively short wheelbase, but it does have a high ceiling.
In all of my recent test driving of 6 or 7 different vehicles, the Liberty, Grand Cherokee, Patriot, Caliber and others, the compact car roots of the Pat. were clear.
Not that this is a bad thing. It's just what it is and it's quite different than any of its siblings (save the Caliber)

As far as the power output of the engine, I felt that it was WAY down in usable power, especially in the low rpm range. For a small 4 cyl. this is not a surprise, but the cvt doesn't do it any favors.
My 2.0l 5 speed Neon would run rings around a 2.4l Pat./Caliber/Compass even though the latter has 40 more horsepower and about 30 more torque.
Granted, the Pat. weighs a couple hundred more lbs than a Neon, but the engine just feels gutless.

My wife and I really wanted a Jeep but were unwilling to pay the $$$ to continuously fill the tank in a GC or a Liberty. The Pat's we tested (both FDI/cvt models) we tried to like, but there were too many things to dislike.
My advice is that if you're set on getting one, do not drive anything less than a *trail rated* FDII model and be prepared to mod it to try and extract more power from the engine.
Click to expand...
Liberty's wheelbase is 106.1 vs. 104 for the Patriot, and it moves 0-60 and 1/4 mile in more time.

If you have a 5-speed Patriot and know how to drive, it's okay, certainly on par with any other 4-cylinder crossover.
 
#6 ·
Wooden Dog said:
Liberty's wheelbase is 106.1 vs. 104 for the Patriot, and it moves 0-60 and 1/4 mile in more time.
Click to expand...
I know it's miniscule, but the Patriot's wheelbase is actually 103.7.

Wooden Dog said:
If you have a 5-speed Patriot and know how to drive, it's okay, certainly on par with any other 4-cylinder crossover.
Click to expand...
I should go test drive a 5 speed model. Do they combine the 5 speed w/ FDII?
 
#7 ·
If it matters, I just traded in my 02 Liberty for a 11 Patriot. Very happy with the change. The difference I noticed was the space from the floor to the top of the back seats is shorter than it was in my Liberty but the cargo space is "deeper", as in it makes up for the height in more floor space. It may be a visual thing, but either way, I plan on getting a roof basket to get even more room out of it (which is probably something I should have done with the Liberty as well, considering all my camping gear).

The change in mpg from my Liberty to my FDII Patriot is quite noticeable.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Although I know how to drive a Manual, I only want a Automatic, I despise Manuals, I grew up on stuff that was only Manuals for so long it has made me not want them ever. Tractors, Cars, Trucks, 4 Wheelers, etc. It just made me not want them.

Well, the few things I require for any vehicle I get is: 4x4, Engine Block Heater, and Space. I also would require the Freedom Drive II Off-Road Group, if I get a Patriot. I just need the stuff it offers, cause I do plan to take trips into the woods, and go LONG trips with it.

Also, I made my own, to what I exactly want, it ended up costing $26,455. That is Cheap, compared to the Dodge Ram I was always wanting, which is around 38,000$. I also can get the AD Discount, and I think I'll be able to do a 5000$+ Discount on it.
 
#10 ·
gtrdave said:
I know it's miniscule, but the Patriot's wheelbase is actually 103.7.



I should go test drive a 5 speed model. Do they combine the 5 speed w/ FDII?
Click to expand...
You're right.

I have a 5-speed and FD I, and have never had any problem going anywhere I want to, rain, snow, ice, whatever. Of course I don't crawl on rocks...at least not while driving.

BTW CU tested a few crossovers, their test showed Patriot with a CVT at 9.6 sec 0-60. RAV4 4 cylinder was 10.0, as was Ford escape 4 cylinder.
A Car and Driver test of a 5-speed Patriot in 2008 or so showed 8.6 sec 0-60, if I recall correctly.
 
#11 ·
CainUSAF said:
Well, the few things I require for any vehicle I get is: 4x4, Engine Block Heater, and Space.
Click to expand...
I took a friend to Lowes today to buy some shelves for her entertainment center. They didn't have anything in stock the correct size, so she ended up getting an 8 ft x 16" board. She was pleasantly surprised when it fit inside my Patriot with the hatch shut. She was NOT so pleasantly surprised when she had to sit in the back on the drivers side all the way home. Every time I go camping I'm amazed at what I can fit into this Jeep.
 
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#12 ·
Space. If you buy a 10' piece of pipe. You can set it on the corner of the passenger side dash and still close the tail gate. 8' pieces of wood will fit inside the car with the front and rear passenger seats folded down. You can just fit an 8000 watt 12HP generator in the back and still leave the rear seat up for people. (drain the gas first oh what a stink) It can pull a trailer for 4x8 sheets of stuff.
 
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#13 ·
Take this with a grain of salt....

I've owned my 2011 Patriot for less than a month and put 800 miles on it in The NE. I normally have just me in the car. It's comfortable. Gets decent mileage. Handles the black ice well. Had it in heavy snow for a test drive and it performed admirably. Has great ground clearance. The stock tires suck but that's all that sucks.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Wow, I am liking the stories, the biggest thing that made me look at a Jeep again is the fact that it looks good, and gets better gas mileage then a dodge ram lol.

So, a Jeep Patriot Latitude X 2011, is higher up from the ground then a Mustang but a little lower then a Liberty right?
 
#16 ·
CainUSAF said:
2. I am hoping to get stationed @ Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota, unless I get to volunteer for a special unit in Security Forces, but here is the question: Does the power of your engine matter on ice/snow? I mean, I was told that as long as your vehicle is a 4x4 the size of the engine makes little difference on ice/snow, is this true?
Click to expand...
You were told right, Power is useless in snow: it doesn't take much power to spin the wheels, and then you've lost traction and the power is useless. Should your tires spin in snow, back off the gas! When you feel traction, ease back onto the gas, like maybe 10% throttle. More spinning only means less chance of regaining traction. God forbid you hit firm pavement suddenly! :(

Furthermore, Power is deadly on ice: once you start to spin on ice, you're headed for a wreck. ABS brakes are nice, but they need at least some traction to work with.

There's a reason so many SUVs go off the road in the snow: people think power and traction are infinte with 4WD. Not so! 4WD is made to get you through deep snow slowly. The faster you go and the more power you have, the more like a 2wd you are. People who stomp on the gas in snow are idiots. :doh: Well, that sounded mean -- what I mean is they're taking the wrong approach to the problem -- there, that sounded nicer.

I have a FWD Patriot and I can get anywhere on snowy roads I need to. If you're driving is only on the road, you don't even need 4WD. (Unless your town road agent is fast asleep). :D

There may be a marginal advantage to a larger engine because it is heavier, not because it has more power; and I said 'marginal'. Other side of the coin is less power means less chance of spinning, means better chance of getting where you want to go.

All things considered, you'll love the Patriot. I do. :) If you're easy on the gas, and under good conditions, you can get 30MPG.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Ignatz said:
You were told right, Power is useless in snow: it doesn't take much power to spin the wheels, and then you've lost traction and the power is useless. Should your tires spin in snow, back off the gas! When you feel traction, ease back onto the gas, like maybe 10% throttle. More spinning only means less chance of regaining traction. God forbid you hit firm pavement suddenly! :(

Furthermore, Power is deadly on ice: once you start to spin on ice, you're headed for a wreck. ABS brakes are nice, but they need at least some traction to work with.

There's a reason so many SUVs go off the road in the snow: people think power and traction are infinte with 4WD. Not so! 4WD is made to get you through deep snow slowly. The faster you go and the more power you have, the more like a 2wd you are. People who stomp on the gas in snow are idiots. :doh: Well, that sounded mean -- what I mean is they're taking the wrong approach to the problem -- there, that sounded nicer.

I have a FWD Patriot and I can get anywhere on snowy roads I need to. If you're driving is only on the road, you don't even need 4WD. (Unless your town road agent is fast asleep). :D

There may be a marginal advantage to a larger engine because it is heavier, not because it has more power; and I said 'marginal'. Other side of the coin is less power means less chance of spinning, means better chance of getting where you want to go.

All things considered, you'll love the Patriot. I do. :) If you're easy on the gas, and under good conditions, you can get 30MPG.
Click to expand...
Thank You :). I really just wanted to know the basics of power to ice/snow roads. I have driven on ice/snow roads here in Tennessee in my Mustang. I hope a Patriot is better on them, and I would think it would be since it has 4x4 ability.

I just wonder, I think I'll get a 2011 because:

A) Active-Duty Military Discount
B) Will last a long time
C) Can design it to exactly what I want

Also, it doesn't cost as much as a new Dodge Ram, it's around (not exact) -10,000$ cheaper if you put my design of the Dodge Ram to my design of the Jeep Patriot
 
#18 ·
Oh yeah, your Patriot will be far better than the Mustang in the snow. That's not a slam at Ford -- sports cars are out of their intended venue in ice and snow. As aforementioned, the power is detrimental, and those wide flat tires that are so great on a dry road become frightening in winter weather. Some years ago Wifey switched from a Jeep to a Buick Grand Sport that found its way into a snow drift almost magically at the first opportunity --and she's well-experienced at driving in snow. She went back to a Jeep in a matter of weeks.
 
#19 · (Edited)
The Mustang is a front engine/rear wheel drive vehicle which means there is less than 50% of the vehicle weight on the rear (driven) axle. The FWD Patriot (or any FWD, for that matter), typically has 60-70% of the vehicle weight on the front (driven) axle. If you decide to get the 4X4 FDI or FDII, you will be even farther ahead. Plus, any Patriot should have more ground clearance than the Mustang, which helps with deeper snow. When I was in Nashville back in the 1960's, 6-8 inches of snow happened at least once a winter.
 
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Discussion starter · #20 ·
I seen a Patriot earlier, stopped and looked at it. I liked it, the only thing I didn't like was the fact that it is rather smaller then what I thought it was. That is not a huge issue though, it has enough room to fit 4 people comfortably (in my opinion) so it's good. I like it :).
 
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CainUSAF
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