Hello all, I have had two alignments but still get that floating feeling when I run accross ice on the highway. It is a very disconcerting feeling of no controle though the AWD system seems to compensate, it still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end. Anyone else experiencing this? Any ideas? Perhaps the folks aligning the pat didn't know what they were doing?
Back end floating on ice
NoSunshinePatriot
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I suspect it is due to the tires rather than the Patriot design. Highway tires are a compromise between tire mileage, traction on dry pavement, traction on wet pavement, traction in snow, traction on ice, etc. Getting a tire biased toward one or more of the various conditions will make it better for that condition or group of conditions.
The stock tires are mostly competent in general conditions, but not great in special conditions. Also, they are not expensive tires. There is information which suggests that the factory tire of a given model is not necessarily the same rubber composition, etc. as the same tire sold aftermarket with the same model name.
When you get in low traction conditions, the computerized ESP and traction control try to accomplish what the computer thinks the driver is trying to accomplish. It probably does a better job than most drivers. I think it helped me out once. But there are probably conditions/situations where a driver may wish (rightly or wrongly) to run the show themselves without help from the computer.
IMO and FWIW and YMMV.
The stock tires are mostly competent in general conditions, but not great in special conditions. Also, they are not expensive tires. There is information which suggests that the factory tire of a given model is not necessarily the same rubber composition, etc. as the same tire sold aftermarket with the same model name.
When you get in low traction conditions, the computerized ESP and traction control try to accomplish what the computer thinks the driver is trying to accomplish. It probably does a better job than most drivers. I think it helped me out once. But there are probably conditions/situations where a driver may wish (rightly or wrongly) to run the show themselves without help from the computer.
IMO and FWIW and YMMV.
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No doubt tires make a huge difference. But I don't think tires are to blame in the case of the 'floating patriots'. Among other reasons, I don't think tires are to blame because of the number of cars passing me on the highway when I'm going 40 mph and white knuckled because of the scary wobble. All kinds of vehicles were passing me with all kinds of tires. If others were experiencing the wobble i'm pretty sure they would have been going a lot slower.
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Locking it in 4 wd won't work either will it because it doesn't stay engaged at road speeds does it?
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And I agree that tires can't be the problem in this instance. Having the same problem show up with stock all seasons and brand new winter tires tells me that the problem is coming from somewhere else.
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Start by changing your tires to true winter tires.
It will dissapear.I had it too with my stock 215/60/17 Continentals they sold it with.
Switched to Yokohama Advan 235/55/17 for summer and Matador NORDICCA same size for winter.
NO more floating.
Second,if your speed is high,you'll get that with anything but stud tires (illegal here,don't know about your country).
So main thing on ice,don't have a heavy foot.
Take care!
And another thing.It is now lifted and there is no wobblw at all!
It will dissapear.I had it too with my stock 215/60/17 Continentals they sold it with.
Switched to Yokohama Advan 235/55/17 for summer and Matador NORDICCA same size for winter.
NO more floating.
Second,if your speed is high,you'll get that with anything but stud tires (illegal here,don't know about your country).
So main thing on ice,don't have a heavy foot.
Take care!
And another thing.It is now lifted and there is no wobblw at all!
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I thought that if you turn ESP to Partial Off, traction control still works the same as ESP ON but you only disable the throttle governor so you can spin the tires to get un-stuck from deep snow. I don't know if I believe the "party line" from websites that say new studless winter tires are even better than studded tires. Studded tires are legal where I drive and a lot of people use them, I'm willing to put up with extra road noise if they work better than studless tires.
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I do have dedicated winter tires , they are Firestone Winterforce I believe , would have to check to be sure , but they are true winter tires. As for driving on snow it works perfect , no swaying at all , ice is the only problem.
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It normally does what?
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I know this feeling.......:doh:
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I finally got the word back from the mechanic on what caused the "rear end floating on ice" feeling I was getting on my Patriot. "a camber adjustment bolt that wasn't torqued correctly at the factory" were his words... after he tightened it up, the Patriot was a totally different vehicle on slick roads. The dealer stated that there was a Chrysler recall on this though I haven't seen it. I don't think they were aware of it when I took my pat in. Anyway, if you are experiencing somthing that is "not normal" for slick roads, that causes the hair on the back of your neck to stand up as you go down a slick road, I would suggest this wording to the dealer. Honestly, this problem was so bad, that if they had not fixed it, I would have gotten rid of the Jeep. Needless to say, I am glad they found the problem on my Jeep!
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Hello... I generally just lurk around here from time to time in search of expert user info and observation, but this issue really grabbed my attention given that we're just now starting to get some real winter conditions.
The GF's fairly new 2010 does this... first noticed it with esp on (normal default mode) with the nearly new Good Years still on it. Was driving on lightly snow dusted highway, then patch of dry pavement under an overpass, then when exiting overpass (underpass?) back onto the lightly snow-dusted condition it went a little squirrely feeling. Since then, put winters on and have still experienced it on a number of occasions... and, now that we're finally getting some real snow, we have discovered that the Patriot really isn't the most comforting (comparitively) to drive whether with esp on or off / 4WD on or off. The winter tires we put on came off her FWD Tuscon that, if memory serves us both correct, was somewhat better in winter conditions than this Patriot seems to be. We're going to try new winter tires as soon as I decide on which ones to get.
I'd really like to know what this camber adjustment bolt re-torque is... and if there is a recall or RRT for it. It'd be nice if that is all it is. I'm going to call the dealer to see if they know anything about it. I would have never thought the Patriot (or any Jeep for that matter - after owning several other Jeep models) would behave the way this one does in winter conditions. Hopefully we'll experience the same outcome as NoSunshinePatriot did. :smiley_thumbs_up:
The GF's fairly new 2010 does this... first noticed it with esp on (normal default mode) with the nearly new Good Years still on it. Was driving on lightly snow dusted highway, then patch of dry pavement under an overpass, then when exiting overpass (underpass?) back onto the lightly snow-dusted condition it went a little squirrely feeling. Since then, put winters on and have still experienced it on a number of occasions... and, now that we're finally getting some real snow, we have discovered that the Patriot really isn't the most comforting (comparitively) to drive whether with esp on or off / 4WD on or off. The winter tires we put on came off her FWD Tuscon that, if memory serves us both correct, was somewhat better in winter conditions than this Patriot seems to be. We're going to try new winter tires as soon as I decide on which ones to get.
I'd really like to know what this camber adjustment bolt re-torque is... and if there is a recall or RRT for it. It'd be nice if that is all it is. I'm going to call the dealer to see if they know anything about it. I would have never thought the Patriot (or any Jeep for that matter - after owning several other Jeep models) would behave the way this one does in winter conditions. Hopefully we'll experience the same outcome as NoSunshinePatriot did. :smiley_thumbs_up:
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I thought I was crazy when I would get that strange "floating" feeling from the pat? apparently not. The only difference for me is that I get this feeling even without snow or ice.
The street near my house has a gradual incline with a slight curve and I always seem to notice it when climbing the hill and making the small turn. Like others have said, it seems to be more pronouced with people/weight in the back. I've kind of gotten used to it since it happens on a daily basis and I'm willing to deal with it.
The street near my house has a gradual incline with a slight curve and I always seem to notice it when climbing the hill and making the small turn. Like others have said, it seems to be more pronouced with people/weight in the back. I've kind of gotten used to it since it happens on a daily basis and I'm willing to deal with it.
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dixiedawg - just curious... what do you run for tires?
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I'm running the stock SR-A's, and I know they are not great. other vehicles I've had with 4wd never felt as good on the roads in the weather. And a lot of those, with some patches of pavement mixed in with snow and ice can be tough, as you shouldn't have them in 4x4 on dry pavement. I rarely even lock in 4x4 on the roads, and usually just let it work in AWD.
And these are the only vehicles I know of that are FWD when not in 4x4, others have all been rear wheel drive.
In fact I left the Patriot home for my wife yesterday, due to the snow storm, and drove our Chevy Tracker. I actually enjoyed being able to do some fishtailing and donuts for fun. I did have to keep going into and out of 4x4 a lot though on the way home.
Only took 2.5 hours to get home due to traffic, ultra slow drivers, accidents, etc.
And these are the only vehicles I know of that are FWD when not in 4x4, others have all been rear wheel drive.
In fact I left the Patriot home for my wife yesterday, due to the snow storm, and drove our Chevy Tracker. I actually enjoyed being able to do some fishtailing and donuts for fun. I did have to keep going into and out of 4x4 a lot though on the way home.
Only took 2.5 hours to get home due to traffic, ultra slow drivers, accidents, etc.
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right on... thanks.
...and given the conditions outside my window right now, your snow has finally reached us and I think we're in for the 2 hour drive home from work today
...and given the conditions outside my window right now, your snow has finally reached us and I think we're in for the 2 hour drive home from work today
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I looked through the list of TSB's and Recalls from the following link and I couldn't find anything about camber adjustment bolt torque. Was this on the front or rear suspension ? I only noticed the severe wobble one time and that was on loose gravel not ice.
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5794
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