Swerving on Icy Roads "Help"

Coach B · Jan 12, 2009

Called the Dealer today, I'm having problems with my Patriot swerving on icy roads. Example I was driving down I 90 at about 67 mph and hit icy and snow my jeep started swerving side to side (felt like the back end wanted to pass the front) Under 40 mph it's not bad or with just one person in it. But with 3 or 4 people in it or lots of gear you can't go over 35-40 on icy or snow covered roads. I have tried every combination or ESP and 4x4 locked it just doesn't make a different.The dealer said that he's never heard of such a thing and he's checking and getting back to me later.

It feels like an alinement problem but a few weeks ago they checked that.

I was just coming home from another wrestling tournament this passed weekend and the back roads were very bad so any tiem I was over 35 it wanted to slide from side to side. Funny but when I went around corners I could accually go faster. I did have another coach and my daughter with me on ther trip...

Let me know what you thing...and thanks!!!

Oktazcat · Jan 13, 2009

Hate to open up a can of worms but did you have the ESP on partial or full off? I will very humbly suggest that you might want to slow down just a bit if there is the chance of ice or snow on the road because 67 mph sounds too fast for those conditions. Perhaps someone else will come along and say "Oh heck, I drive 70 mph on ice all the time and that never happened to me." Good for them but if you've already had the alignment checked and it's ok, and if you've already established that 35 mph doesn't cause this same thing to happen then I would say speed was a contributing factor. Just my two cents so don't get upset.

luffing · Jan 13, 2009

Oh so much physics going on here. I'd maybe have the alignment checked. I don't mean to demean the situation in any way but, I think maybe just slowing down some until this thing gets resolved would be safest.

lotoftime · Jan 13, 2009

I haven't been on icey roads that fast. maybe 55 tops? The rear did start to step out a bit and the traction control light kicked on. I let off the gas and everything straightend out. Make sure you have a full tank of gas when you get a 4 wheel alignment. Ask them when was the last time there equipment had been calibrated. I have had an aligment job that still left things buggered. Maybe the tow or camber in the rear are off. Maybe the tires have been wearing weird? The stock tires are aweful (in my opinion) on icey roads. I am sure it doesn't make a difference but do you have a stick or auto? Has any one else seen behavior that severe?

Akula · Jan 13, 2009

Slow down if it is icy.

Any vehicle will get unstable on ice- if the tires don't grip, you're hosed, whether it is a Jeep, Subaru, or Ferrari. Snow/ice tires can help, but they can't change physics. The more speed you have, the more twitchy the vehicle will be- it is natural for the rear to want to step out if it loses traction and you are in any kind of transitional maneuver (slowing, turning). The rear end starts to act like a pendulum and wants to swing. It is more pronounced with rear drive vehicles, but it can easily happen with front or all wheel drive cars. The way you avoid it is by prudent driving- once traction is lost, no amount of stability control can save your rear.

steveo · Jan 13, 2009

i had same thing happen you just slow down never felt that before

sambogee · Jan 13, 2009

You may want to check your wheels for any packed snow or built up ice. I know this has been discussed in other threads as causing the pat to shake at higher speeds. The stock 17" wheels seem to be especially susceptible to this problem.

Just a thought.

Jeep Frank · Jan 13, 2009

Coach B said:
my jeep started swerving side to side QUOTE]

I had the same problem. It felt like the Jeep was floating back and forth a few inches. This was at about 50 ish mph. I was in 4x4 lock with full ESP. I was caravaning with a buddy in a 2008 Nissan Frontier. He was in 2wd the whole time and never experienced the same thing.

I thing what may of happened is this.... The freeway (hwy 84 Columbia Gorge) was slightly rutted. So the spots where most the tires had contacted the pavement had worn the road down a little. The water had settled in these low spots and frozen. I think i was sliding back and forth in these icy ruts.

I talked to my buddy and he said he rode on the high spots and stayed out of the rut.

Do you think there were ruts where you were driving?

APT · Jan 13, 2009

I've driven 70mph on snow and not felt unstable. Only when changing lanes because of snow buildup/ruts, so I slowed down when changing lanes. I have not driven that fast on ice.

I don't care what the vehicle or driving conditions are, if you are not comfortable with how a vehicle is handling, slow down for the sake of yourself and the others on the roads. I have a lot of experience with driving vehicles at their limits of adhesion, so I am quite comfortable with it. While it often frustrates me when others drive slower than I want to, I just remind myself that most others are not so comfortable pushing the limits of their vehicles and others may not have the best vehicle or tires, etc.

Coach B · Jan 13, 2009

OK here you go.... as for the 67 I was just going with the flow of traffic.... everyone else on the road had no problems and road conditions were changing. As I stated it the first message that it happens over 35-40 mph.

I have tried all combination. Full off ESP Part. off 4x4 locked just didn't help. (By the way Great! responce)

The Dealer said that he wanted to recheck the back wheel alinement next Tuesday.

Didn't seem to make any differance in the ruts or not.

I'll have to try the full tank of gas and I think I'll leave some gear in the back to give it a little more weight!!!

The Snow in the wheels... whew it's a big problem when pushing through the deep snow but it comes out very nice with the snow brush.

Thanks for the comments!!! Might be time to get rid of the Stock tire....

APT · Jan 13, 2009

Snow in wheels does not affect alignment. Weight in the vehicle should not matter as they are often aligned on a hoist with the wheels in the air.

My comment above was a general one, not specifically targeted at you, Coach

Coach B · Jan 13, 2009

Thanks APT!!!

The whew comment was the fact the I'm always getting a build up of snow in the wheels and my patriot likes to jump up and down when the tires are out of balance

Chatting with my Uncle the other night, A mechanic for year doing wheel alinements, stated that sure sounds like I need stiffer springs and possible better sway bars. He noticed the difference in handling with more weight in the Vehicle (3 or 4 passengers).

Oktazcat · Jan 13, 2009

Coach B said:
Thanks APT!!!

The whew comment was the fact the I'm always getting a build up of snow in the wheels and my patriot likes to jump up and down when the tires are out of balance

Chatting with my Uncle the other night, A mechanic for year doing wheel alinements, stated that sure sounds like I need stiffer springs and possible better sway bars. He noticed the difference in handling with more weight in the Vehicle (3 or 4 passengers).

I'm so glad that you didn't get all huffy that some of us suggested you might want to slow down. In this type of setting it's hard to tell if someone is being mean by saying that or truly trying to help. I know that no one who replied to you had any bad intention and it's refreshing to come across someone who doesn't jump to the wrong conclusion and get all defensive. Hopefully you'll be able to find out if this is a mechanical problem that we all need to be aware of.

jepstr67 · Jan 13, 2009

Coach B said:
OK here you go.... as for the 67 I was just going with the flow of traffic.... everyone else on the road had no problems and road conditions were changing. As I stated it the first message that it happens over 35-40 mph.

I have tried all combination. Full off ESP Part. off 4x4 locked just didn't help. (By the way Great! responce)

The Dealer said that he wanted to recheck the back wheel alinement next Tuesday.

Didn't seem to make any differance in the ruts or not.

I'll have to try the full tank of gas and I think I'll leave some gear in the back to give it a little more weight!!!

The Snow in the wheels... whew it's a big problem when pushing through the deep snow but it comes out very nice with the snow brush.

Thanks for the comments!!! Might be time to get rid of the Stock tire....

I think you are on to something here. My stock 16" Goodyear Eagle tires are not good on ice or compacted snow. I have not had the problems you have noticed, but I have experienced some very odd behavior on ice compared any tires that have a more common SUV style tread.

todde702 · Jan 14, 2009

APT said:
Snow in wheels does not affect alignment. Weight in the vehicle should not matter as they are often aligned on a hoist with the wheels in the air.

My comment above was a general one, not specifically targeted at you, Coach

Apt, vehicles are always aligned with the vehicle sitting on the wheels at normal ride height, never with the wheels hanging. An alignment rack uses ramps. Weight can play a huge factor on getting a proper alignment. I'm a certified alignment technician and used to work at Sears Automotive. We had a guy bring his 1980ish Olds Vista Cruiser wagon in for an alignment. He came right back stating it pulled to the left. I put it back on the rack and it was dead nuts on, and nothing worn. One of the old timers, Charley (and I use that term with great admiration, Charley was easily in his late 60's, but man he'd seen it all. He was the guy everyone went too when there was trouble) asked me where the owner was and I pointed to this 400lb guy who was standing in the viewing area watching. He called the guy over and asked him to sit in the car. Needless to say, all the numbers moved left! I had to redo the alignment with him in it, then explain that anyone else driving the car would feel a pull to the right. Him and I both got a lesson that day. He couldn't really believe it, so he would get out of the car and watch the numbers, then get back in. After a few times it's like a little light bulb went off in his head. He'd been that heavy for years and could never get a car to drive straight, but no one ever had him sit in the car for the alignment. After a quick test drive, he said it felt fine.

So if you always carry gear in the back/trunk, leave it in for the alignment. Also, make sure the tires are properly aired too. It's supposed to be one of the pre-alignment checks the tech does (along with looking for loose steering and suspension components), but often gets eye-balled.

Coach B · Jan 14, 2009

Thanks Everyone for the replys!!! I have to say at first I was a little frustrated with the Slow down comments

I run the tire pressure at 35 in all tire and if one drops to 32 the light comes on and I check all at that time. Thanks Todd! I think you and my uncle have it pretty close with the weight and alignment... With Just me in the Jeep it doesn't matter how I have it, 4x4 locked ESP On, Part. on or off, it drives very nice. But Getting 3 or more and gear, hang on. Brings back memories of my old 69 camaro

lots of counter steering

Akula · Jan 14, 2009

Not trying to bust on you for your speed, it just reminded me of years ago when I made a long trip in truly evil weather (snow, freezing rain, and sleet, ALL AT THE SAME TIME). If I got above 45 or so, the car would naturally want to follow the camber of the road- right off into the ditch. My fix- don't drive over 45. I stayed on the road all the way there and back (200 mi. round trip). Several 4x4s didn't have that kind of success. (Doctor, it hurts when I do that. So don't do that...)

Interestingly, I see people complaining about the snow/ice performance of the Goodyears. Mine came with the Firestone Affinity (I think Limiteds got the Firestones), and while the Affinity is far from what I'd pick if I bought a full set, I have yet to have any kind of trouble in snow or ice.

Coach B · Jan 20, 2009

It's Tuesday and just got my Pat back... I have to say I was really worried and after talking to the guys in service I'm feeling much better. About two months ago I had bad wear on the passenger rear tire so the replaced the tire and did a four wheel alignment. Well as of Monday the had a calibration problem

They were just getting around to call me and found out that I had an appointment to come in today. Sure enough all the tires were toed in because of the calibration on the alignment... I was very pleased with the Dealer, they could have just told me I hit something and messed it up, Kudos to my Dealer!!!

Thanks all for some great advice!!!! Even the slow downs

rocal · Feb 1, 2009

I'm in a similar situation this week. I live in the North York Moors in England and we've had a lot of wet, slushy deep snow. I've come to the conclusion that Patriots don't like ruts. I reckon it's because they're a low, light 4-by-4 (SUV). Once you kill the speed they're fine.
We aren't helped over here in Europe by the fact that Patriots use unusual tyres. The only other vehicle with the same size is a BMW X3. This means that there isn't much choice when it comes to profiles. You can only get a roadster tread, you can't buy anything at all aggressive that could cope better in snow. A similar sized vehicle such as a Land Rover Freelander has a much wider range of choice when it comes to buying new tyres.

Rocal

patriotpierre · Feb 1, 2009

Coach B said:
Might be time to get rid of the Stock tire....

What brand, all seasons or winter tires?

I'm quite sure that is the source of your problem. For me, there is no such thing as all seasons tires and quality is also a factor. Cold and snow and ice calls for different tires than heat and rain.

Swerving on Icy Roads "Help"

Coach B

Oktazcat

luffing

lotoftime

Akula

steveo

sambogee

Jeep Frank

APT

Coach B

APT

Coach B

Oktazcat

jepstr67

todde702

Coach B

Akula

Coach B

rocal

patriotpierre

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