Ok, let me just say Chicago had it's first snow of this season, last night. My Pat is a 4wd, with the 4whl lock, and from what I've gathered here, and from the owners manual and disc, that makes it the FD1, AWD. Now I've had FWD, 4wd, and RWD vehicles in the past, and I guess I expected more from the Pat on stock 215/60 17's. I plow snow for the munincipality I work for so when they called me out to go plow last night, I also wanted to see how the Pat acted in snow without locking in the 4wd. In the short distance I traveled to work, there was a lot of wheel slippage. Now according to the disc, AWD is on all the time. My Dodge was a 4wd, and in 2wd on stock road tires, it didn't slip as much, and there was only an inch of snow on the ground. But even the FWD VW Rabbit p/u I had up on snowy mountain roads in New Mexico, didn't slide as much as I did last night. Ok, enough ranting, it was the first time, and maybe there was some ice under the snow, but I'll be scrutinizing this Pat on the next snowfall, and I'll have to try the 4whl lock mode, and I guess I'll be looking for a better all season, or winter tire, because trading in the Pat is not an option. At least the gas mileage is better than the Dodge or the Chevy ZR2.
Snow Driving
Mike Flea
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It will turn off, then back on.
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Scroll down to post 9 if you want a full description of the different modes of traction control/ESP. http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10020
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That helps, but I'll have to go to an empty snow covered parking lot to figure this out, the "learn-by-doing" method, because honestly, I still don't fully understand it. I'm not being thick-skulled about this, I'm willing to learn and figure it out, but the explanations, and even reading that link, still leaves some doubt.
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"when I say go it goes." Got a good laugh out of that. But he's right. ESP is a nice help and the system on the 2014 is pretty good, no issues with slippage on mine.
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That's really the best way. Find one with a slope too.
Totally agree. I've gone through some pretty deep snow with RWD and good tires. FWD with good tires is even better. If you're sliding around corners, its probably because you've got inadequate tires -- AWD or 4wd wouldn't help with that. AWD/4wd will only help you move forward through deep snow or on hills. When it comes to cornering, better tires are the only thing that will help.
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actually you're right. The pat is really squirly and fishtails on icy roads at highway speeds especially with your stock tires. My fwd minivan tracks better because it's heavier with a longer wheelbase. The MK platform is really light weight with an extremely short wheel base which is what I think you're referring to. On snow packed roads or unplowed roads the pat is like a mini-4wd tank and does great! at lower speeds. I've even pulled other cars out. For some reason stock tires on the pat is not a good winter combo on icy roads. The other posters on this thread are right that better winter tires on the pat make it a lot better... my tire swap made a world of difference... but yeah the pat sucks at freeway speeds on icy roads. So go slow and be careful.
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I only drove my pat twice on icy roads and I will say that new A/T tires > stock SR/A in snow. Both sets of tires were basically brand new. and the driving was slow and deliberate.
I have driven in A LOT of very slick slick mud. and the pat can get quite squirrely when driven quickly, or accelerating from a stop. I drove through a lot of mud sideways.
The trick, as a lot of people here have said, is to turn ESP to partial off (one press) I would lock the 4wd if the road is covered in snow/ice, and be more deliberate with all inputs: steering, accelerating, braking. The short wheelbase is a bit of a detrement, and it can be easy to get it sideways.
Now looking up tire surveys on tire rack for your tires, snow traction is pretty abysmal. The SR/A's are OK, and the Geolander A/T is pretty good. So That would make a big difference.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Affinity+Touring
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Wrangler+SR-A
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=Geolandar+A/T-S
Maybe a set of dedicated snow tires is in order? or a tire upgrade? something with the mountain snowflake symbol?
I have driven in A LOT of very slick slick mud. and the pat can get quite squirrely when driven quickly, or accelerating from a stop. I drove through a lot of mud sideways.
The trick, as a lot of people here have said, is to turn ESP to partial off (one press) I would lock the 4wd if the road is covered in snow/ice, and be more deliberate with all inputs: steering, accelerating, braking. The short wheelbase is a bit of a detrement, and it can be easy to get it sideways.
Now looking up tire surveys on tire rack for your tires, snow traction is pretty abysmal. The SR/A's are OK, and the Geolander A/T is pretty good. So That would make a big difference.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Affinity+Touring
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Wrangler+SR-A
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=Geolandar+A/T-S
Maybe a set of dedicated snow tires is in order? or a tire upgrade? something with the mountain snowflake symbol?
Traction control does 2 things. Applies brakes to the spinning wheels and cuts engine power via the electronic throttle body (older Chryslers with a normal cable operated throttle body will ONLY apply brakes to the slipping wheels). Both are not good in very slippery situations.You mentioned traction control above like it was a negative thing. Plain old 4wd = pushing the traction control button once. If you floor it all 4 tires will spin versus if you have traction control on they will begin to slip and then the ECU will cut power to the engine preventing the tires from spinning.
In the hilly area I live it is better to get all 4 tires moving rather than cutting the engine power. Most slipping is caused by slush and snow on top of the asphalt, if you let the tires spin it clears the snow and allows you to grip the asphalt underneath. If there is ice underneath you have to shimmy sideways until you can get traction
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I would disagree. I think traction control is great in ice and LOW amounts of snow. It stops me from spinning out and keep me from spinning my tires too much. In deep snow you can't get anywhere with traction control because of the engine breaking.
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maybe 20 years ago,
but todays traction control is far superior than what any person can do,
multiple pulses per second,
pulsing individual wheels where theres slippage, cant do that manually
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You don't get it. A computer can't replace a good driver. Keep thinking the nannies will save you when you do something stupid. I work on mopars every single day. I go to Chrysler training constantly. I know more about the constantly evolving modern car systems than 95% of the population.
I'm with Elgreco to a point. Driving in snow, all the traction control does is keep you from doing what you shouldn't have done in the first place, which is apply too much power. Power is the enemy of traction. If your tires are spinning, you're too heavy on the gas. Keeping the power on while the traction control thrashes away trying to stop one wheel or another is pointless. Back off, and your tires will do the work just fine.
Nothing is stupider than somebody at full throttle with spinning tires thinking that somehow they're going to find traction. God forbid that they do, cuz who knows where you're going if that happens. Or you just might snap an axle--all that power, all that weight, thrown at one wheel.
However, when it comes to ABS brakes, I'm a believer. They've only worked against me on one occasion in the 20 years I've been driving with ABS, and that was only a nuisance and I had plenty of time to avoid a crisis. Dozens of times, maybe hundreds of times, the ABS has worked sweetly on ice or snow and at least once I directly credit ABS with keeping me from an accident. As Terasec said, those multiple pulses are better than I could do pumping the brakes.
Back to Elgreco, I agree the nanny devices are designed to help people who don't know what they're doing. Consider the hill-holder on manual transmissions: that only makes it harder for an experienced driver to start up on a hill without stalling, because it deceives you into thinking the engine and clutch have engaged. It might help somebody who's never driven a manual the first time, but they'll also never learn to do it right.
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The way I look at it is, the devices are designed to make driving easier, but they have to be used properly. They're not magic, they just help make sure you get where you're going. Some folks see no need for a 4x4 as their car gets them where they need to go for 30 years, others think they have to have 4x4 because there's an inch of snow for one day a year. I like to have a Jeep 4x4 partly to have fun in the dirt in the summer, partly for less chance of getting stuck in winter(not to mention maybe a little fun sliding around corners if there's room and nobody else is nearby), I know I'll get where I'm going, I can haul what I need to haul, and in the Patriot I get all this with nearly 30mpg out of that amazing piece of technology, the CVT. Now to prove it's reliability in the Baja....but that's a story for another day.
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i agree 100% with this.The Pat is a nightmare on snowy icy roads at highway speeds.Downright dangerous compared to a full size 4x4.Light weight/tiny wheelbase is terrible.However at low speeds my little Pat seems to grip very very well in ice and snow covered roads.Pretty much drives through anything without being in 4wlock.Yeah highway speeds scares the crap outta me in this thing when its snowing.A small breeze would blow you off the road on the highway if the road is little slick during the winter.
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The Pat works well for me all around when driving within the limitations presented by conditions - "on snowy icy roads" I simply do not drive at highway speeds. Rather, I apply my life-long experience in driving in hazardous conditions, but smile when the technology in the vehicle works with my experience and common sense and helps with the overall operation of the vehicle I'm controlling accordingly. It's all good.
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+1
Proper winter tires, a speed prudent for conditions and an alert driver...its all good.
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