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JeepersCreepers

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Hey all,

New to the forum and I'm really interested in getting a Patriot in the upcoming months (either an 07 that's on the lot or ordering an 08). This would in fact be my first new vehicle ever. I've never driven anything with a CVT before. How common are they? Is the CVT 'automatic'? Do they have any history of unreliability (on other vehicles)?

What's the general consensus on FWD vs 4x4? I'm most likely never going to take it offroading, but I may have to drive in heavy snow occasionally. Is it worth it to go 4x4 if I'm not going offroading?

Any advice for a first time buyer?

Thanks!
JeepersCreepers
 
If you are not going off road then you don't need Trail Rated. If there will be an occasional snow storm then you don't need 4 wheel drive, however, many of us feel that Jeeps should be 4x4. As a refugee from Massachusetts I can say that unless you live West of Worcester you won't need a 4x4 and I used to get by with rear wheel drive and a good set of tires.
 
If you aren't planning any offroading, you don't need the 4 x 4. The patriot has traction control. Get the 4 x 2. If fuel efficiency is a premium, get the manual or 2.0 liter CVT. If you want conventional power, get the manual. Otherwise, the 2.4 CVT is nice. Very different, but worthwhile.
 
I've never driven anything with a CVT before. How common are they? Is the CVT 'automatic'? Do they have any history of unreliability (on other vehicles)?
A CVT is an automatic. What makes it different from convential automatics is its lack of gears and shifting. Instead the CVT constantly adjusts to the engine speed.
With the exception of GM's shortlived CVT that it used in Saturns, I haven't heard of many problems with them.
 
DO NOT get the 2.0 liter...
it saves you 200 bucks but the gas mileage will hardly matter
when you sell it, the 2.4 will look so so so much better than the 2.0
the 2.0 has significantly less power
go with the 2.4, you wont be dissapointed as you would be if you got the 2.0!
 
DO NOT get the 2.0 liter...
it saves you 200 bucks but the gas mileage will hardly matter
when you sell it, the 2.4 will look so so so much better than the 2.0
the 2.0 has significantly less power
go with the 2.4, you wont be dissapointed as you would be if you got the 2.0!
I second that - I drove a 2.0L Caliber for a few days while my Patriot was in the shop. There's a noticeable difference in (lack of) performance with the 2.0. You will be MUCH happier with the 2.4L and your resale value will be much lower than $200 below the 2.4L Patriots; anybody would take a used 2.4L Patriot over a 2.0L model.
 
Hey all,

I've never driven anything with a CVT before. How common are they? Is the CVT 'automatic'? Do they have any history of unreliability (on other vehicles)?

What's the general consensus on FWD vs 4x4? I'm most likely never going to take it offroading, but I may have to drive in heavy snow occasionally. Is it worth it to go 4x4 if I'm not going offroading?

JeepersCreepers
Welcome to the forum. You aren't alone with the questions concerning the CVT. The reliability question is pretty much an unknown at this point. Most folks want (expect) their transmissions to last a very long time. CVT's have not been around very long in large numbers to know for sure. As far as I know, the only other company putting out CVT's in any numbers is Nissan. Time will tell. We all hope they will be very reliable.

FWD vs 4x4? Just depends on where you go and what you do. For me, I need four wheel drive to get down nasty (muddy and rutted) section line roads. However I am still sitting on the fence, still driving my Tundra waiting for Patriots to become more available. They are very rare here in Oklahoma.

Good luck with your decision.
 
Wouldn't the CVT be thoroughly tested prior to its production release? If not, should everybody opt for the extented warranty?
 
I would ask a different question...

When was the last time that Jeep introduced a new transmission that had major problems? (I have no idea what the answer is)
 
I know the details of the 2.4 4-cyl DOHC 16V engine being a joint venture. The engine should be solid. Does anybody know the origin of the CVT II design?
 
I know the details of the 2.4 4-cyl DOHC 16V engine being a joint venture. The engine should be solid. Does anybody know the origin of the CVT II design?
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/wip/0606wip05.html
Chrysler’s powertrain engineers began devising the technology to accommodate a low-range mode on the existing Jatco CVT in 2003, when the Patriot began crystallizing through the development process. “We knew right from the start that we wanted the Patriot to be Trail-Rated, so we tasked ourselves with developing a low-range CVT in-house,” says Matt Loddane, chief engineer for the Patriot and its platform-mate Jeep Compass. “The key was to get all the capabilities without a two-speed transfer case.” Chrysler engineers patented the CVT low-range system, dubbed CVT2L.

When the low-range mode is selected via a switch, a controller determines whether the vehicle is traveling at an acceptable rate of speed (the system can only be activated at speeds below 25 mph) and then engages a coupling mechanism, via specially developed software programming, to engage the secondary drive wheel while the CVT moves into a higher final drive ratio of up to 19:1, which is more than enough to traverse just about any dusty trail or rough terrain. Loddane dismisses any concerns over potential durability issues of operating a CVT at such output levels, adding that most of the attention during development was focused on perfecting the calibration and feel of the system. “We had to do a lot of work to make sure the low-range mode would operate like a traditional system from a customer standpoint, so that it would sound and feel familiar,” he says.

Other Info:
Why a CVT? Basically, continuously variable transmissions have fewer moving parts, which cuts costs and should also prove more reliable, plus the gearbox type's low resistance makes for better acceleration and enhanced fuel efficiency - a best in all world's scenario. Dodge was smart to go with the well proven Japanese supplier instead of trying to build their own in-house CVT, as the transmission's reliability will make for a happier Caliber customer in the long run.

Fluid & Chain Info:
I read somewhere that the CVT used to be a rubber belt, but now it is a metal that is extremely strong. But I think the transmission fluid actually has rubber particles in it now which helps the metal belt to grab and have traction. Slipping of the belt is bad so I also read somewhere that the computer will limit how much torque is applied at any one time to improve the reliability of the belt and avoid slipping. This is the reason some people say the Caliber will be a little sluggish going 0 to 15.........the computer has some kind of limit in this range so people don't gun it and apply too much torque for the CVT to handle.
 
I would ask a different question...

When was the last time that Jeep introduced a new transmission that had major problems? (I have no idea what the answer is)
Jeep of course shares a lot of parts with other Chrysler products, including some transmissions. I can share an experience with a new Chrysler transmission. Some may consider this ancient history but back in 1990 I bought a new dodge with their then new 4 speed automatic. Six months later and four transmissions later, it was bought back through the lemon law. A lot of folks experienced the same thing and were transformed into Honda or Toyota owners because of it (including me). We kept thinking, why didn't they thoroughly test it out prior to introducing it in their vehicles?

I am not suggesting the new CVT will be like that. The post by JohnnyCash provided some excellent information. It does make sense that a transmission with fewer parts has the potential to be more reliable than conventional auto trannys.
 
Jeep of course shares a lot of parts with other Chrysler products, including some transmissions. I can share an experience with a new Chrysler transmission.
Sure they share a lot of parts, but it does not address my question. Chrysler has had their share of foul-ups... but what I specifically asked was regarding Jeep. Jeep engineers would make the decision to use a particular Chrysler transmission or design their own. They may even make recommendations to change an existing Chrysler one so that it would be acceptable for use in a Jeep.

The answer to my question will not be a reflection of the actual hardware used, but the abilities of the Jeep engineers. I have faith in their abilities and standards. If they feel that an off-the-shelf Chrysler CVT will meet their requirements, then I'm fine with that.

If Jeep has a history of introducing troublesome transmissions, then that would be cause for worry. If Jeep doesn't, then their inclusion of CVT technology should be viewed as a "stamp of approval" on the technology.

If that makes any sense.
 
...If Jeep has a history of introducing troublesome transmissions, then that would be cause for worry. ...QUOTE]
At one time you could set your clock on an automatic failing at 100,000 miles in Jeep Cherokees. Now the rebuild would work for the next 150k-250k but the problem was there.
 
...If Jeep has a history of introducing troublesome transmissions, then that would be cause for worry. ...QUOTE]
At one time you could set your clock on an automatic failing at 100,000 miles in Jeep Cherokees. Now the rebuild would work for the next 150k-250k but the problem was there.
Not since 87 behind the 4.0, they switched to the AW-4 which will take any beating you can give it. I can't vouch for the Torqueflite 904 or the 30RH behind the 2.5, but the AW-4 in mine has been abused for the last 40K that I've owned it as in towed a 6x12 enclosed trailer regularly and plowed hard for 3 winters, so hard that I've burned the tranny fluid on 3 different occasions but the XJ keeps on rolling with a repair total to date of $292.08.
 
Chrysler has a public perception of unreliable transmissions. But most owners can vouch for their performance. My dad's 1998 Dodge Minivan has 198K miles on the original transmission. It's only needed a small pressure valve or something....

The CVT is just as reliable as the next transmission. Shoot it's probably got a better chance of lasting longer since there isn't any gears, clutches or overdrive bands to wear out.
 
Chrysler has a public perception of unreliable transmissions. But most owners can vouch for their performance. My dad's 1998 Dodge Minivan has 198K miles on the original transmission. It's only needed a small pressure valve or something....

The CVT is just as reliable as the next transmission. Shoot it's probably got a better chance of lasting longer since there isn't any gears, clutches or overdrive bands to wear out.
It will be interesting to see how reliable it is. I've thought about it and I could see it lasting 100,000 miles or 500,000 miles. Who knows? The only thing I would be concerned about is the frequency of the transmission fluid change. Sometimes they are way off on the recommendations on something new. Keeping that fluid in good condition is probably the key to making it last a long, long time.
 
Chrysler has a public perception of unreliable transmissions. But most owners can vouch for their performance. My dad's 1998 Dodge Minivan has 198K miles on the original transmission..
My dad's Pacifica has almost 100K on it, and the tranmission has been fine, (knock on wood!)

You know its funny, when Chrysler had the Torqueflite, it was and still is considered one of the best trannys ever. Its funny how one or two bad products can ruin a company's reputation.
 
At one time you could set your clock on an automatic failing at 100,000 miles in Jeep Cherokees. Now the rebuild would work for the next 150k-250k but the problem was there.
To clarify, I am not saying any current Jeep transmission has problems. I know of none. I also am a fan of the CVTs and think they will prove very reliable. Just was answering tcperconti that Jeep did have a problem early on with the XJ Cherokee transmissions.
 
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