[KemnitZ]

I get Euro bumper instead my damaged one, so didn't risk ordering US style bumper...Hope that someone else will be more braver then me

 

[HooverBucs]

well even with the reinforcements sitting differently, isnt that some thing that you can fix, i mean, its basically lowering the US bumper, or Raising the Euro Bumper...

 

[Tony1911]

Tony, proof has been provided in previous threads. I posted some links below, but you will have to do the reading.

Okay, I read your links. I saw a lot of pantie-wetting hysterics about how getting run over by a motor vehicle might actually hurt a pedestrian (And wasn't that a surprise...) but no actual facts that would relate to this issue.

You claim that the U.S. bumper would not clear EU legislation. Right? My question is simply: why not? What specific points in that legislation would cause trouble? Lack of crumble space? External measurements - if so, which ones? I ask this question because I live within the EU and see new vehicles without such fat front bumpers daily. For example, this is what a new Kia Sportage looks like:

A Toyota Land Cruiser:

A North-American Patriot:

Compare to a Euro-Patriot:

See what I mean now? The only difference in the Euro-Patriot appears to be that the front bumper is lower - but Kia, Toyota and a whole bunch of other manufacturers seem to be able to sell vehicles without such a dirt-hugging front bumper.

 

[EuroPat]

Another European that prefers the US bumper here. But at least we get black-painted muffler and heated mirrors

The export-version bumper certainly worsens the approach angle. I know a guy that looked into buying a US bumper and installing it on his European Patriot, but he said that the total cost of the operation would be over 400 euros, too expensive for me.

 

[homac]

Tony1911...

Not sure what you are looking for?

The EU and Asia have legislation that specifically covers the front bumper, in fact the whole front of the car. It was put into place to protect pedestrians.

Now do not go and shoot the messenger (not saying I agree or disagree) It is simply a fact. (One piece of legislation for example is Economic Commission for Europe (ECE) regulation No. 42)

Regarding the "Jeep Patriot" bumper if you measure the North American bumper it would not pass the European standard.

Okay, I read your links. I saw a lot of pantie-wetting hysterics about how getting run over by a motor vehicle might actually hurt a pedestrian (And wasn't that a surprise...) but no actual facts that would relate to this issue.

See what I mean now? The only difference in the Euro-Patriot appears to be that the front bumper is lower - but Kia, Toyota and a whole bunch of other manufacturers seem to be able to sell vehicles without such a dirt-hugging front bumper.

 

[HooverBucs]

hell i just like the way the Euro bumper looks.
idc about the euro laws. i dot live there

 

[Tony1911]

Now do not go and shoot the messenger (not saying I agree or disagree) It is simply a fact. (One piece of legislation for example is Economic Commission for Europe (ECE) regulation No. 42)

I am not trying to "shoot the messenger". I am not even trying to discuss about whether the European legislation is right or wrong in this issue. I am simply trying to find the source of this claim:

Regarding the "Jeep Patriot" bumper if you measure the North American bumper it would not pass the European standard.

Who has actually looked at European legislation and determined that the North-American bumper would not pass? Where does this claim originate from?

 

[zbee]

i would love a US bumper, if i get time in the next few days i will remove the grill etc off mine and take a photoes, then if someone over there can do likewise we can then see the diffrences in the frames etc, theres some great stuff in this thread in regards to a US front end, i will try and frame the shots the same so comparisons can be made, ill use a credit card for refrence in my shots hopefully someone good with photoshop can play to do good comparisons
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6291

 

[Tony1911]

I know a guy that looked into buying a US bumper and installing it on his European Patriot, but he said that the total cost of the operation would be over 400 euros

That's actually much cheaper than I would have imagined! Is that via the stealership, with the bumper color matching the rest of the vehicle? I will assume 400€ and change is the price of the new front bumper only.

 

[zbee]

That's actually much cheaper than I would have imagined! Is that via the stealership, with the bumper color matching the rest of the vehicle? I will assume 400€ and change is the price of the new front bumper only.

try getting a skid plate it would work out to nearly 1,000aud by the time it was shipped over here

 

[zbee]

as promised euro front end photoes

hopefully will settle some arguments...as you can see the metal bumper is a diffrent design slightly

 

[homac]

I think you have the proof you need regarding the EU legislation. Like myself you will have to do some reading and you will see the North American bumper does not meet those specifications. The Jeep Patriot Service Manual is another source that spells it out too.

Other than that tell us what proof you need? Maybe why you need it, do you have the North American version and someone is giving you trouble over there??

That is not all they had to change either !

Below is a partial list, keep in mind some of the changes are very minor. Also there are variences amoung export models depending on where they are going:

• Bumper (pretty obvious because we can see it)
• External Facia
• Starter
• Key Fob Receiver
• Occupant Restraint Sensor
• TPMS
• Lights/Bulbs
• Instrument Panel
• Cables/Wiring
• Emissions System
• Catalytic Converter
• Stickers/labels
• Owners Manual
• Factory Fill Oil (5w-30 vs 5w-20)
• Security System
• Door Handles
• Seats
• Seatbelts
• Fender and body components

I am not trying to "shoot the messenger". I am not even trying to discuss about whether the European legislation is right or wrong in this issue. I am simply trying to find the source of this claim:

Who has actually looked at European legislation and determined that the North-American bumper would not pass? Where does this claim originate from?

 

[Tony1911]

I think you have the proof you need regarding the EU legislation. Like myself you will have to do some reading and you will see the North American bumper does not meet those specifications. The Jeep Patriot Service Manual is another source that spells it out too.

I have? I think I have pointed out my criticism towards the evidence shown thus far, and pointed out why I remain suspicious of this claim in light of how other new vehicles do not seem to need to resort to such drastic changes in their front bumpers.

And this is the first time that I've noticed anyone mentioning the service manual.

Other than that tell us what proof you need? Maybe why you need it, do you have the North American version and someone is giving you trouble over there??

Why do seem to have made this thing into some sort of religious conviction that must not be questioned? Do you believe that all claims made by all people should always be taken at face value? That is it somehow wrong to ask why they claim that? I see this claim being made over and over again, but never with any real source. So I ask. And what do I get? Loads of text about how front bumper laws should be changed in the U.S. and other wiggling. Never a straight answer. Makes me very suspicious.

Citing sources should be a pretty standard part of any rational discussion. Using sources and source criticism is how we ensure that the information we have is actually real. Separating facts from fiction, ensuring that the things believe to be facts are really so should have value in itself, it should not need some extraspecial external motivation.

 

[Rends]

I could be wrong but i guess the metal frame (the real bumper) is lower on the euro model.

 

[homac]

Tony, again I am not sure what proof you are looking for?

Let me try one last time, there is EU legislation that forces North American car makers to make slight changes to vehicles they send to Europe. The bumper found on the North American model would not meet that EU specification.

Why do seem to have made this thing into some sort of religious conviction that must not be questioned? Do you believe that all claims made by all people should always be taken at face value? That is it somehow wrong to ask why they claim that? I see this claim being made over and over again, but never with any real source. So I ask. And what do I get? Loads of text about how front bumper laws should be changed in the U.S. and other wiggling. Never a straight answer. Makes me very suspicious.

 

[zbee]

gee, i go to the trouble to remove my front end for people to see, and all i see is people not even aknowledgeing the effort just continue arguing about laws, at least i put the thread back on topic;(

 

[Boy George]

gee, i go to the trouble to remove my front end for people to see, and all i see is people not even aknowledgeing the effort just continue arguing about laws, at least i put the thread back on topic;(

I kind of like the front view of the Pat without the front mask
How much work/time is it to remove the thing? Is it difficult?

 

[zbee]

about ten minutes, i used the guide from the other thread, its very simple actually, i suggest to do it on grass or a bit of carpet at front other wise itll scratch when you put it on the ground

 

[timeburgler]

Tony1911, One word: "Google"

Also, I personally saw a video about a year ago that has a Jeep Engineer discussing the bumper and why it was larger. I will let you do the searching.

HUGE CUT....
Why do seem to have made this thing into some sort of religious conviction that must not be questioned? Do you believe that all claims made by all people should always be taken at face value? That is it somehow wrong to ask why they claim that? I see this claim being made over and over again, but never with any real source. So I ask. And what do I get? Loads of text about how front bumper laws should be changed in the U.S. and other wiggling. Never a straight answer. Makes me very suspicious. SNIP

 

[Tony1911]

zbee's Euro-bumper:

U.S. bumper:

The scale is different but looking carefully, you can see the "soft" metal part is lower on the Euro bumper.

Tony, again I am not sure what proof you are looking for?

Damn. This really should not be this difficult to understand. Is there a language barrier here? You do know what the term "citing sources" means, right? Simply stating something does not make it so. Repeatedly stating something does not make it so. Stating something and demanding others find your sources is really bad form. And in a normal, rational discussion, the request for sources - should the person making the claim forget to cite them in their original claim - should not be interpreted as some sort of insult but a normal, in fact expected part of the discussion.

Also, I personally saw a video about a year ago that has a Jeep Engineer discussing the bumper and why it was larger.

This would be the same "engineer" who claimed the ABS module is different in an FDII and the breathing tube for the differentials was missing from FDI? I think we've proven that Chrysler advertisement videos can not be trusted by now...