Hopefully, someone will give you a more informed answer but my thought was to put in a different thermostat for the winter months??

(or the tried and true but expensive method of installing a heater in your block?)

 

There's a thread on here that describes a fuel heater and/or fuel mister install. Maybe in the same thread is also talk on warm air intakes. Not applicable to cold winters, but helpful for fuel efficiency in warmer months. Perhaps a fuel heater and/or fuel mister will help offset the decrease in your mpl (mpg). I've already noticed a decrease in my mpg's here in Buffalo with the cooler fall weather and 30's in the morning.

 

install engine block heater. i think the pat should have come with them. plug it in when ur not driving and itll keep the block warm.

o get the hood and front end bra. idk if it covers the the radiator though.

 

A buddy of mine keeps telling me you can get a dip stick heater at any auto parts store. I have not seen one but you install it in place of the oil dip stick and it keeps the oil warm. Then before you leave you remove it and put the normal dip stick back in.

 

Use a engine block heater, it comes with your patriot.

 

All Canadian Patriots have a block heater... Use it!

 

i'm 100% with you my friend

 

Using the engine block heater will only help the engine reach operating temp *slightly* faster. And might I add that electricity isn't getting any cheaper either? Will the fuel savings from starting up at a slightly higher temperature offset electricity costs? I don't use a block heater until -20 Celsius, and then only on a timer for three hours before work. Remember that the block heater won't bring the coolant up to operating temp! The real reason to use it is to aid in cold starting and prevent freeze-up, which shouldn't happen with a properly protected system unless it's REALLY cold, at which point you should just stay home anyway.
What I find surprising is how dependent modern vehicles are on such starting aids. My '70 Parisienne would start in -37C with no block heater. It didn't like it, and it would barely turn over, but eventually she would go. On the other hand, I didn't know about the breaker for my receptacle at my last apartment, which was shut off. -23C and my Focus wouldn't start. It was stuck for three days until I figured it out!! Good thing my service van was still able to start - an '86 Chev 1-ton, go figger!

 

What I find surprising is how dependent modern vehicles are on such starting aids. My '70 Parisienne would start in -37C with no block heater. It didn't like it, and it would barely turn over, but eventually she would go. On the other hand, I didn't know about the breaker for my receptacle at my last apartment, which was shut off. -23C and my Focus wouldn't start.

Well, I never had any problem with starting with modern cars without block heater. In fact, I *never* used it and I live in very cold environment.

For example, my old car was a Pontiac Sunfire and even at -35C, it started on the first time. Mineral oil. Of course, It barely turn over like you for the first time but it starts. My father used a engine block heater and let me tell you: it DOES make a difference, it starts as if the temp was 20C and the interior is heating almost instantly. He uses a timer that will start the heating 2 hours before.

I think your problem is your battery, maybe it wasn't fully charged or not in a good condition. This is common.

While the idea of engine block heater is to help to start the car in colder environment but it also protects your engine from premature wear. Oil is so tick when cold, especially mineral oil, so if it can help, even a little. Better than nothing.

There's many type of engine heater: heats the coolant, heats the oil, heats the engine block, heats oil and coolant, etc. Some are less efficient than others.

I don't know for the patriot, but I know one that the heating element is on the side of the engine and there's a coolant between two engine walls. When you start the car, for a few first minutes, the engine won't go colder because of the coolant and will help heating the engine faster. Also, it'll heats your interior faster, because it uses the anti-freeze (if you didn't know it).

 

Farrel79 I'm with you on that.

A good vehicle, well maintenanced and well tuned should go through cold, snow, wind and humidity without supplementary components. Must admit that in extreme conditions prevention is the mother of security and survival.

-Super battery with blanket for extreme conditions
-A set of boosting cables
-Bloc heater (already included)
-Front radiator grill jacket or protector with zipping sections so less cold air
comes in and a protects the engine from wind, water and snow
-Hitch and wiring+ cable and with hooks
-Front tow hooks
-Emergency kit (lights, signs, reflecting tape)
-First aid kit
-Fog lights

would be a nice North Edition complementary pack option

 

FWIW, the Riot block heater draws 450 watts. you can do the math.

Last winter on my '93 Ford, I used a timer to fire up the block heater max 3 hrs prior to my morning drive, with overnight temp of -15 C (5 F). 1.3 kWh cost about 16 cents gross (incl transmission, taxes) in the GTA area. Funny the published 'net' cost was 5 cents/kWh, before the nickle & diming extras

I consider it cheap insurance for an assured startup and quicker warm up period. Other benefits includes earlier cabin heat flow. It may also warmed up the lubrication system sooner, thereby less mechanical wear inside the otherwise frigid engine.

I'll try to record some numbers on the Riot this winter.

 

Synthetic Oil. It won't help your engine run any warmer, but it flows faster in the cold temps than conventional oil.

 

I'll second the synthetic recommendation. I once had identical bottles of Pennzoil 5w-30 in my trunk, one conventional, and the other synthetic. It was -25, so I took 'em out and poured them. The syn flowed like at room temp. I'm still waiting for the conventional to come out! After that I was sold. (Although I use Mobil 1 now.) However, as a heavy duty mechanic I can't recommend stretching oil change intervals just because you run synthetic, unless you get your oil tested. Despite what advertising would have you believe, OIL does not break down - the additives do. And they're usually the same in both types of oil. I use synthetic oil as cheap insurance, not as a time-and-labour saver. (Sorry for getting a little off-topic!)

 

I noticed that it doesn't get up to temp now in the colder weather we are getting. In the summer the temp guage would run just a mark under the half way point. Now it's between 1/4 and 1/2.
It runs much better though, more responsive and MPG is improving. The heat starts pumping out the vents within a minute of hitting the road.

 

rad heater photos

Gaspareau et al. Voici les photos. Here are the pics of the DIY rad blocker that you requested. I posted this project originally in this link, as reply #15...

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?p=102350#post102350

Sorry for this delay, due to rainfalls (beaucoup!). Firstly, I got a small $7 sheet of black coroplast from an art store: 32" x 24". Coroplast is a plastic equivalent to ordinary corragated cardboard, and is used commonly for election signs; so it could be free; but I wanted black for inconspicous appearance. see pic #1 (img_1029a.jpg)

Prep:

Cut out 3 pieces (panels), each 22" x 9.75": pic #2 (img_1030a). Each panel can be installed by inserting it upward thru the center (largest) opening under the front bumper. This center opening is 9.75" wide x 2" giving a diagonal of 10.25". This diagonal is handy for easier insertion.

The openings on each side of the larger center opening is too small to use. You simply insert each panel thru the center opening, then slide the panel sideways, as needed

pic #2 (img_1030a) shows the 3 pieces near the locations, when installed. The center panel needs virtually no trimming. For the side panels, trim/notch upper corners to fit nicely around vent protrusions at the extreme top left & right corners of the rad; you'll see.

The bottom of each side panel need a slight trim, for levelling. The lower bumper goove where the panels sit on is slightly curved. I trim off a 0.5" skinny triangle. I also trimmed off some bottom corners to ease installment.

I cut a hole on each of the side panels, to let in some air. Notice that the driver side panel hole still retain a flap, which could be closed manually. I can't gauge the right amount of cold air needed for now. The 2 holes is 10% of the area covered. So 90% of the rad area blocked.

Aside: As a WAI (Warm Air Intake) fan, I've removed the OEM airbox. I left the original air vent opening at the top driver corner of the rad alone. That's another fuel economy topic.


Note the location of the 2 air holes. The holes, when installed, are aligned behind the main thick bumper member. So that outside air and splashes will not enter thru the holes directly. Last winter with my late Ford, I found a layer of dried salt coating the rad blocker. So the bonus benefit of the rad blocker is to shield the engine compartment from grimy, salty splashes and blowing snow.

pic #3 (img_1031a) shows the ugly backside of the panels. To protect the coroplast from heat deformation, I glued some regular corrigated cardboard pieces onto the rad-side of the coroplast panel. The cardboard pieces acts as spacers that keep the coroplast from touching the hot rad metal.

I also placed/glued the cardboard pieces at strategic spots, to keep the 3 panels from shifting sideways from their intended position.

Also, note in pic #2 (img_1030a) that the cardboard strips on the extreme outer edge of the side panels are glued 0.5" hanging out beyond the coroplast edge. So that the coroplast edge will not touch the metal side-frame of the rad.

pic #4 (img_1032a) shows the intended overlapped positioning of the 3 panels when installed. I deliberately overlap the center panel to the side ones, so that the center panel cardboard spacer strips keep the neighboring side panels from shifting.

The lower bumper groove/lip piece slants inward, and may cause the coroplast panel to curl. So I glued wooden popsicle-sticks or tongue-depressors at the panel bottoms for rigidity.

btw. I initially cut a cardboard prototype to understand the fitting, trimming, notching and hole replacement. You may find doing a cardboard prototype useful.

pic #5 (img_1033a) tries to show how the panel sits on the lower bumper groove/lip.

Installation

1a/ Insert the panel for the passenger side of the rad thru the center opening. The panel should be flush against the rad. The panel top will be tuck between the rad and a black plastic valance-like trim. The panel bottom will just sit on the groove/lip of the lower bumper 'chin' piece. Go out and eyeball & finger the groove/lip which extends across the full width of the rad, just an couple inches below the rad bottom.

1b/ Just slide the panel sideways on the groove/lip, towards the passenger side of the rad.

2/ Insert the panel for driver's side, and slide to right. similar to steps 1a, 1b.

3/ Finally, insert the center panel. It will overlap the side panels a little bit. The strategically placed cardboard strips behind this center panel will keep the side panels from creeping sideways. I also used a small spring stationary clip (pic #2) on the lip/groove to double secure the bottom of the center panel.

btw. My Riot has stock everything: 16" steelies, no-lift. Nevertheless, I can now remove each panel in 20 seconds after a few practice runs; handy in an over-heating emergency at road side. Guys with 17" wheels or lift would have more ground clearance: even faster removal/install time!

For the month of October, I have installed only 2 of the panels, since the average outside temperature is above 5 C (40 F). No over-heating problem yet, in city & hwy trips. max rad temp 93 C (199 F). I plan go the full monty all 3 panel coverage when avg outside temp approaches freezing (0 C, 32 F).

Have fun, save some fuel money and keep the engine clean. This is version 2.5 of my blocker. I've been thinking and trying different prototypes since last winter. I hope this post will get you going a little faster. Excusez moi for my English. LOL.

 

It seems you want to keep the engine a little warmer so as to get summer mileage in the winter. I don't notice much difference in mileage winter to summer, but blocking some of the radiator with cardboard would keep engine temps a little higher. If you are trying to maintain a higher temperature you may need to block more or less of the radiator depending on the outside temp and the speeds you are driving. When I have blocked my grille in extreme cold, I try to block air coming into the grille. Placing cardboard too close to, or on, the radiator can cause the fan to overwork or the engine to over heat. You will just need to experiment to get the temperatures you are looking for in different driving conditions.


Jeeps do not have problems with winter starting. Even my flat head 6 in my 1960 Willys fires right up at -20 that's Fahrenheit not -20 centigrade! I drive the Willys on the coldest days of winter just for the looks of disbelief I get and to show how long lasting and reliable Jeeps are.

In extreme cold, I have a magnet that heats up I can stick on the oil pan. Warm oil is far better than warm antifreeze for starting a cold engine.

 

Very interisting ChateauPierre and thank you for explaining your home made radiator blockers.

I'm unable to see larger pictures, I think its a problem with the forum. Does anybody have the same problem to see larger pictures?

 

hi y'all. I can't see the rad blocker pics that I posted either this morning. I saw them ok last nite after posting. What's doin?

pierre :-(

 

Interesting modification. I was thinking of doing the same as I didn't want to spend the $250 CDN for the winter Cloud Rider Grill inserts. That being said, like Jepstr67, I have rarely blocked the grill and only used the block heater in the past. The first time I really noticed a problem with that was in a Ford F350 last winter in -40C in the Yukon. The thermostat was visibly lowering...interesting to watch, however I drove back to block the rad before continuing.

 

rad blocker, overheat concerns

The possibilily of overheating is a concern, but manageable.

Last winter, I had a 1 piece blocker for my late Ford, with a 20% air hole cutout with a close-able flap. The flap is opened prior to January, no overheat problem.

I closed the flap in January & Feb, almost 100% rad blocked except for air seepage. I encountered a few days in those months where the day-temp went up to 10 C (50 F), no problem at hwy speed due to rammed air. Temp gauge showed higher within the normal range, but not near red.
However in city stop & crawl traffic, temp gauge approaching red! I heard the rad fan kicked on; I immediately rolled down the window; turn the cabin heater fan full. The temp gauge started to creep down away from the red. This stressful situation lasted for 10 minutes before I pulled off to a quiet side street; where I removed the 1 piece blocker in half minute. The full fan noise got to me. But the experiment was manageable.

Given that experience, version 2.5, the new coroplast blocker for my Riot is much improved: 2 air holes, 1 of which is flappable, and located at the business end of the twin fans. Moreover, the new blocker is in 3 pieces; which means I go 2/3 covered on January thaw days. It's not a 1 piece all-or-nothin situation like my old Ford.

Yes Jepstr67, it is not desirable to have the twin rad fans kicking on. They suck energy and fuel, defeating our objective. We will watch this overheat possibility and tinker with the air flow in the coming months.

I saw some outside-the-grill-blockers on the ecomod site, for Jeep Cherokee. They cutout coroplast inserts to cover each grill slot, and lower openings - too much work for me. Secondly, while those guys have unrestrained ideas on aerodynamic mods, their in-your-face implementations are amusing (dorkey).

btw. I'm very interested to know at what coolant temp the rad fans kick on. I have never noticed/heard my fans kicking on, even is the Summer. Scangauge recorded my max coolant temp of 101 C (213 F) in the Summer. We live in the Gt White North. I saw somewhere, that my Ford rad fan kicks at 105 C

fyi. My SG water temp corresponds to OEM temp gauge needle positions:

90 C 194 F 12 o'clock needle position on temp gauge.
77 C 171 F 10.30 position (long dial mark)

For the guys w/o SG, you can now estimate your temp values on the OEM temp gauge. My recent cWT is 89 C ±2 (192 F ±3).

Wikipedia said that the ideal operating temp is 100.15 c (213F). Now, is that coolant temp or cylinder head temp?

 

I guess the coolant temperature is always lower than cylinder and block temperature. The purpose of the coolant is to "cool" the engine so its have to be colder that engine to "suck" heat from it.

I just want to add, be careful when your engine goes up and your need to remove a blocker to not put your fingers near the fans. You could be hurt if they start spinning.

 

thx fredlev for the fan alert. We might be ok even in the dark. The coroplast blocker panels are located on the front side of the rad, while the fans are at the back side of the rad. My fingers wouldn't want to approach the hot rad itself.

I would remove a panel by feeling for the bumper chin, where the lower lip is supporting the blocker panels, well below the rad bottom. In the dark, the heat from the rad will guide my fingers away. lol.

That's why a few practice removals in daylight is necessaire for speed and safety.

 

rad blocker - test run

I tested my DIY rad blocker this week, with these results. The Riot was not pre-warmed with the OEM engine block heater.

Using all 3 rad blocker panels, 95% of the rad covered, I did my morning commute in 0 C (32 F) outside temp. Engine warmed up to 77 C (171 F) in 3 minutes instead of the usual 5 minutes of slow city driving.

When I got on the hwy with heavy traffic but steady speed of ~80 kph (50 mph), the coolant climbed to a stable coolant temp of 85 C (185 F). The cabin heater was off. So the speedy rammed-air thru the air hole and gaps kept the engine compartment at a stable 85 C (185 F). No over-heat worry on the hwy, if traffic flows ok.

Getting back into city stop & crawl traffic was a different story. After a few stop lights, the coolant temp start approaching 94 C (201 F). Although the rad fans have not kick on yet, I decided to try out 'plan B, emergency heat control. I just turn the cabin heater/fan full blast, with all windows still shut. This trick diverts some of the heat from the coolant system into the cabin. To my surprise, the coolant temp dropped quite fast: 6 C deg (10 F) within 3 minutes! This tells me that typical cabin heating soaks up noticeble amount of heat from the coolant system.

For comparison, I used only 2 rad blocker panels, 66% rad area coverage, on the previous evening city drive, in outside temp of 4 C (39 F). The coolant temp stablized at ~87 C (189 F). Again with no cabin heating, and windows shut. No over heat concerns there.

Conclusions so far: Covering 90% of the rad in ambient below freezing temp. 0 C (32 F) is safe and helpful for normal hwy drive. On city traffic, the 90% cover is useful and manageable; but must be watched. Also, cabin heating is significant... don't use it during engine warm up time, since we want the engine to warm up asap for fuel economy.

caveat: the above results may vary on driving styles, difference in the DYI blocker construction. The quality of hooch varies greatly with different moonshiners salut

 

Very interesting. I'm jealous that you have already your panels installed. I doubt I will have time to make them before winter (A couple of weeks). I'm also concerned by the road salt spayed all over the rad. I'll try to find a solution. Maybe installing a bug screen on the back of the grill. How difficult is to remove the grill? does anybody already done this?

 

fredlev. I did all my cutting & trimming of the panel indoors. The rough cuts took less than 20 minutes. Then I took the pieces outside and tried to fit them a piece at a time, eyeballing notches & air hole locations. Trimming took another half hour indoors. Just use the posted measurements. There should lots of free coroplast sheets available from the elections.

After outdoors again for refitting & adjustments, gluing on some cardboard spacers on the back sides. Allow glue to dry overnight. Total cutting & gluing time 1 hour, spreaded over one day. Voilà.

After a few trial installs, it takes less than a minute to install, and less than a minute to remove. Good thing to know about fast removal, b/c I always worry about possible over heating, even though overheat control is manageable.

I'm still learning the coolant temp patterns with my new panels and overheat thresholds. So far ok even during the recent mild spell.

I'm waiting for the arctic blasts to see the rad blocker benefits.

 

If you do block the radiator's air intake, watch the temp gauge religiously. If your electric fan fails with the grill blocked, I bet the motor will be toast in minutes.

 

pass the salt, please

Last week we had our first wimpy snowfall of 5 cm (2 in.) overnight. The city sent out its salt spreaders to attack the snowy roads, as a dress rehearsal for the season. The roads were clear off by the morning rush hr. It turned out that the city crews didn't overdo their cya role on this first snowy bout as there were numerous traffic accidents, as some people haven't switched their brains to winter driving mode: lots of vehiclar arguments with guard-rails and other people's rear bumpers/trunks.

By the time I started on my 10 mi. commute, the morning sun dried out most of the brine; there wasn't even enough road spray to clear off with the wipers.

However, I was surprised by the presence of salt on the black coroplast rad blocker, after that 1 day of limited salt sprinkling. I could imagine the serious salt sprays over the coming winter. The photo shows hints of the 1 day worth of salt blocked by the coroplast, that would have otherwise sucked into the rad and engine compartment.

If you look very carefully, you'll see the contrast of 'clean' (block) area protected by the grill bars between the slots; and the clean center area shielded by the main bumper. I wish we can zoom up this photo. bottomline, the rad blocker is keeping the grime out, and keep in the heat.