Cross Bar Removal

Well, to answer my own question : In order to REMOVE the cross bars that come with the Patriot and the Grand Cherokees', this is how it is done...
They are installed with a one way pin that has a knurl to it and gets press fitted into ONE side of the mounting holder. You need to drill a hole in the OPPOSITE side in order to tap out the pin. It is simple once you know how. I used a 1/16" drill and guesstimated where the end of the pin would be, then I tapped it out with a 1/16" dia. pin punch...Cross pin came right out and clamp was free,unit came right off...Of Course I covered up everything while I did the work so I would not mar or scratch anything...Now all I have to do is get a black crayon and fill in the holes I drilled and no one would ever know...:smiley_thumbs_up:

 

Cross with roof rack cross bars

Well, to answer my own question : In order to REMOVE the cross bars that come with the Patriot and the Grand Cherokees', this is how it is done...
They are installed with a one way pin that has a knurl to it and gets press fitted into ONE side of the mounting holder. You need to drill a hole in the OPPOSITE side in order to tap out the pin. It is simple once you know how. I used a 1/16" drill and guesstimated where the end of the pin would be, then I tapped it out with a 1/16" dia. pin punch...Cross pin came right out and clamp was free,unit came right off...Of Course I covered up everything while I did the work so I would not mar or scratch anything...Now all I have to do is get a black crayon and fill in the holes I drilled and no one would ever know...:smiley_thumbs_up:

That is insane. I want to take mine off when I don't need them. I drive a lot of miles and the wind resistance does make a difference in economy at highway speeds. It sounds like a small stainless bolt could be used to replace the pins once the holes are drilled. I'll have to go out and look.

 

Thanks for the useful info GVT! I guess they wanted to make sure they don't get removed easily

 

What's crazy is that (before finding this site) - the dealer quoted me, I think it was $350 to remove the bars or $50 to cut them off because they can't be removed without taking down the headliner. I didn't believe them and found this site where someone had already done it, plus found the service manual which clearly shows the bolts....that was when i decided dealer #1 was not to be trusted with my vehicle. the service manager did give me free oil changes to commensate when I told him that it took me 20minutes and that his techs should check the manual instead of supposedly looking at my vehicle and taking 4 hours to get back to me about it....

We changed to thule racks and cross rails are in the garage since they won't hold a canoe.

 

Why won't they hold a canoe? Because they are wide enough?

 

Where did you find the cross members in the service manual? I've been hunting but all I can find is the side rails.

 

It is only the side rails and I went back its the mk parts list on p263, sorry. That is the page I needed to show where the bolts were.

To remove the cross rails you need to take off the side rails and slide the cross rails off of them (since they don' t unscrew/unbolt). The thule ones we have locks for, so we can just unlock them and pull them off - much simpler! The downside is that they need the wind faring on, because the noise is really loud and it probably hurts our mileage more than the factory cross bars.

 

Ok I figured it out. How to remove the crossbars from the roof rack. It does not require a trip to the dealer or drilling any holes. It is however kind of difficult and needs some muscle. First you loosen and remove the knobs. Then what I did was pull on the cross bar to dislodge it from the piece that goes around the rails. It take some muscle and I also used a screw driver to help pry the cross piece out. Then the whole thing comes off. Put some towels down under the rails to prevent scratching the paint. There is a metal piece that the knob threads into and that will fall out onto the roof. Its not easy though. The front cross bar came out ok once I figured it out. The rear crossbar was harder to get out. I had to slide the cross piece back and forth pretty hard and use a screw driver to pry it out. You can also angle the crossrail slide one end forward and one end back. It will take some work but they do come off this way.

 

Yeah, you got it...we are talking cross bars, not the longitudinal rails, right?! As the Patriot doesn't come with any cross bars in a standard package, you either get them with sec./conv package or from the dealer. If you can install them, you should be able to remove them!

 

We are taking the production cross rails (can't remember what package they came - dealer definitely didn't add them at my location since they couldn't figure out how to take them off : ). They have a knob that you turn to loosen them, but it only loosens so you can slide it. You can't remove it that way, unless you use GVT1911's method. They should be designed for easy on/off but they are not (theft reasons I guess?). I think the sport cross bars are probably designed like my thule ones.

If you want to remove them the way I did it (thanks to cjhike and this site), you remove both side rails (longit. ones) and slide off the cross ones....
method:
You can remove the cross rails by "popping" off the plastic ends on the raised roof rails. There are 2 bolts under each of the four plastic caps that have to be removed and the whole assembly comes off of the Jeep (you will need a buddy to help you lift it off, not heavy, it is awkward). You then can slide the factory cross rails off one end. Then reattach the raised roof rails. When bolting back to the Jeep ensure to re-wrap the bolts with "Teflon Tape". I did it this morning, it took me about 20 minutes. You need a Torx set.

 

The knobs do come all the way out. I got them out. READ MY POST. You don't need to do all of that removing plastic end caps and removing screws. I got mine off only using a screwdriver to pry out the crossbar from the part that is on the rails where the knob is located.

 

Good lord, nothing is as simple as one would believe it should be anymore! I guess that's why there is a "recommended storage position for the cross rails when not being used to reduce wind noise" in the manual!

Well, good luck on your new ones--and I'd be afraid that if you needed to remove the bolts on the side rails that you don't incur new (or added....) leaks.

But then, I'm reminded of an old, I believe Beach Boys song, "It never rains in southern California...." so stay out of the car washes!

 

I firmly believe in KISS when I do stuff, but not the case here.

I didn't even notice that reference in the manual - that is funny!

No leaks here - car washes or the multiple days of rain this rainy season. I actually can't remember how the whole assembly looked (it was 6months ago).

 

The REAL question about removing cross members

But the real question is; Is there a quick and easy way to modify them so it is still safe to haul junk with them, but makes them a couple minute job to remove or install?

I will know later today.

 

And now I know.....

First I used the drilling method to remove the cross bars suggested by Gvt1911. After there was a hole all the way through I cut some 1/8" stainless welding rod about 4" long and bent it into an L like an allen wrench. These are my new pins. They can easily be removed any time the factory knob is loose.

Then, where to keep them? I tried fitting them here and there but I couldn't locate a good spot. Then I remembered Metalhead said the ends come off. You have to remove the knob completely to get the end off. But then it comes off with just a quick yank. Once the ends are off, the bars will fit next to the spare tire, one on each side, running from the back of the back seat to a location near the inside of the bumper.

I'd say it would take me less than 5 minutes to put them back If I want to buy a pipe or a board or something long that needs to be carried on top.

They should come from the factory so they can me removed easily.

 

Yea I don't know why they make it hard to remove them. I don't plan on putting anything on the roof anyway so I ain't worried about putting them back on.

 

I looked at my cross bars this morning to see what it would take to remove them. I found it a very quick and easy procedure.

First unscrew the knobs all the way and remove them. This will release one side of the bracket that holds them on to the side rails.

On the back side of the end of the crossbar is a pin. Mine had about 1/8" sticking out and I simply pulled the pin and off dropped the bracket.

The crossbar is then just lifted off.

I can see that if the pins are driven all the way in they may be hard to retrieve but of the 4 pins on my car, three were easily pulled out.

I could take pictures if I'm not explaining things well.

 

On the back side of the end of the crossbar is a pin. Mine had about 1/8" sticking out and I simply pulled the pin and off dropped the bracket.

The crossbar is then just lifted off.

I can see that if the pins are driven all the way in they may be hard to retrieve but of the 4 pins on my car, three were easily pulled out.

That's cool for you. Unfortunately, we tried that and we're successful. But, its done on ours - rack is collecting dust now...

 

My pins were driven about 1/16 inch below the surface. It was not possible to grab them. The pins should come from the factory with a little ring on the end and a tether so they wont get lost.

 

I did look at those pins and they were driven in too far to get a grip on them with anything. They should do something better with it.

 

Crossbar is hard to remove to prevent theft. And the wind resistance from those crossbars prolly accounts for about .0001% of your fuel consumption...not worth worrying about.

If you really don't want them and will never use them, you could just cut them. But I think you'll eventually regret removing 'em.

 

I can't imagine why they would be likely to be stolen. It isn't like they are a universal fit. They only fit on Patriots. The childishly simple pin modification I made will allow me to add or remove them in just a couple of minutes. They may not cause much resistance in a labratory where all the wind is coming directly from the front, but if wind is swirling around from all directions like in real life, they cause resistance. It is well worth keeping them off unless you need them.

I also drive a CJ with a snow plow. I've had my fair share of experience in battles with wind.

 

I can't imagine why they would be likely to be stolen. It isn't like they are a universal fit. They only fit on Patriots.

Yes, but its not just the rack they want, but what's on them

 

So I have a Patriot with the standard crossbars, which as I understand it are technically wide enough to carry a canoe, but aren't strong enough to handle the weight. However, I'm in a situation where I've always wanted a canoe, but didn't have a means to transport one...now I do with the Patriot. BUT by the time I buy the replacement MOPAR "Sport" utility bars and the MOPAR canoe carrier kit, I'll have spent almost $400...which means that after buying the items to carry the canoe, I can no longer afford the canoe in the first place!

That being said, and taking into account that I've never owned/carried a canoe before so this could be a proverbial stupid question...would there be any safe way to work around the purchase of the Sport bars and the carrier kit? I don't care so much about looks as functionality, so if clamping/strapping a couple of 2x4 to the existing cross bars would do the trick I'd be game for that.

 

Throw a couple of 2x4s across the side rails and lash the canoe down good and tight. Low tech can work just fine. It might be a good idea to tie the 2x4s in place. Also, screw additional blocks to the 2x4s so the canoe can't shift side to side. If you want to get fancy, wrap them with carpet.

 

As jepster staid, adding 2x4s to your rack works. It is actually the old standby method and my dad bolts 2x4s over his factory rack to add width. Definitely make sure the 2x4s are solidly on the longitudinal rack, any slippage can loosen your ties. Wrapping in carpet (indoor/outdoor carpet) helps the canoe and ties sit with less slippage as well.

The canoe carrier system from mopar is not necessary. You can get rope from any hardware store and cut/burn it to fit for much less. And you can use blocks like jepster said to reduce the yaw. The tricky part is getting something in the front of the patriot to tie down too, that is why I am looking at adding tow hooks. Its doable/ok without but takes more time tying down the canoe.

We have the thule rack for our vehicle, but we already had most of the parts and just had to buy "new feet" to transfer to the patriot when we got her. And, also a wind fairing. The 2x4s might also be a bit noisy, so getting a design that you can take on and off with ease might be helpful.

 

The tricky part is getting something in the front of the patriot to tie down too, that is why I am looking at adding tow hooks. Its doable/ok without but takes more time tying down the canoe.

I thought I'd seen some pictures you'd posted earlier where you had what looked like some nylon straps that bolted to the tops of your front fenders; did those not work, and if you go the tow hook route won't that leave you with ropes rubbing the front of the hood/grill area?

At least knowing I can get by with a combination of 2x4s and rope makes me feel better about the possibilities...now I just have to convince my wife that I "need" the canoe (and can find a place to store it that won't get in her way)!

 

Yep, the hood ties work and I am using it as such. I know many people that use this route, but its still a little more yaw than I like (haven't tested it for a long trip yet and wondering if ropes will loosen over time). I am picky and growing up our goal was to only have to tighten a maximum of 1time (pa-fl). For the front ties, I have always used some soft cloth to wrap around the rope if the rub point hit really "angular".

Hoping to get a good camping trip in this summer (4+ hours) away and put the hood ties to the test

 

Have fun canoeing! We are off for the weekend to Sequoia so no canoeing this time. I don't know your kids ages, but remember the goal is for everyone to enjoy themselves! If they and/or you aren't used to paddling, its your job to stay relaxed, not worry about minor indiscretions or going in circles and call it quits early or take a swim break (if allowed). I love teaching canoeing at a calm lake in a state park. Its a great sport/activity and virtually everything is fixable - my cousin screamed for 15 minutes the first time he was in a boat (3mon old) and is now attempting to qualify for the olympics.

 

I finally took my canoe on a long trip, about 300 miles round trip. I tied the canoe to the factory cross bars (not the sports bars) then tied ropes to hood loops and I installed two hood loops on the screws that hold the D-rings at the back gate. So... Straps on the cross bars, ropes to two hood loops and ropes to two tailgate loops.

The car and canoe rode just fine. 80 mph and steady as can be. On the way back we had 40 mph winds with gusts much higher and it still rode well.

BTW, I have one of those pulley and hook arrangements in my garage. They are made to hold bikes but I hang my canoe on it. Gets it up off the floor and high enough to get in and out of the car.

 

I tied the canoe to the factory cross bars (not the sports bars) then tied ropes to hood loops and I installed two hood loops on the screws that hold the D-rings at the back gate. So... Straps on the cross bars, ropes to two hood loops and ropes to two tailgate loops.

You didn't happen to take any pictures of this setup that you could post anywhere, do you?

And for the novice here, are the hood loops something you can buy somewhere specifically for that purpose, or are you fabricating these yourself? Because if you can buy these, then it sounds like I just need four of those and some rope and I'm in business!

 

Great idea about using the ties in the back. That would give me a "triangle" back there (presently using the hitch) and sounds like that would do it for the remaining yaw. Thanks!

 

Some canoe outfitting stores carry the canoe ties, otherwise, merrimack canoes

More Info Previous thread:
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?p=19646#post19646

 

You can also make the ties yourself, but I was being lazy and the price was right