Auto would be easier for sure! You could burn out the clutch if you ride it a lot.

 

That's one reason I like the auto. Same is true for stopping on a hill in ice and snow, although you wouldn't need those high RPMS for that.

I've had manuals though that had low enough gears, especially with the transaxle shifted into 4L, you could let the clutch out and feather the gas almost the same as you describe to drive over rocks, etc. Gears do make a difference.

 

yes you can burn out the clutch. and as dixiedawg said having 4L like in the TJ allows you to crawl in first without touching the clutch. also don't forget the pat wasn't really designed for crawling.

 

offroading will cost $$$

additional wear and tear will take its toll,
i prefer Manual to auto's,
something to consider is low end torque,
Pat is a 4 banger and will naturally lack the low end torque as in the Wrangler,
regardless of Man/Auto
over time you will learn to finesse your way over that log,
but if your worried about costs? well avoid the rough stuff.

 

Well, with my auto in Low off road gear, it does crawl pretty well. I still sort of would rather have the transaxle in 4WL, but this works for me most times. Just different, but I've gotten used to it.

 

With a true transfer case and low range, I prefer a manual. Starting and stopping clutchless 1st gear in low range can be quite useful. Not having wheeled my Patriot, I can only guess the FDII transmission is way to go on the trail. Too bad you can't get the stick with a granny gear in the Patriot. As observed by Dixie, gears make a difference.

 

With my 2010 manual Pat, I pull the 4x4 lock, slowly depress the clutch in first gear and then I don't touch the clutch anytime on the obstacle and gauge my speed just with the gas and the hand brake and it's never stall. So I supposed if someone drive a manual like it should (wait until the jeep go after the clutch is depress before press gas), it won't burn.

 

Autos are better for offroading than manuals. You get additional reduction and an auto can be built far stronger than a manual. Get yourself a CRD and you can just idle over everything if you want.

 

Transmission - 1st gear ratio (or lowest on CVT) x Final drive ratio = Crawl ratio

FD1 : T-355 5-speed: 3.77 x 4.12 = 15.53

FD1 : CVT: 2.349 x 6.12 = 14.37


FD2 : CVT w O/R Crawl Ratio: 2.349 x 8.135 = 19.11

In this case, manual in better than CVT ?

Or is the gas millage and price worth the CVT2L's 19.11 ?

Personally i like the 15,53 with better gas millage and better price...

 

Mileage was important to me too, which is one reason I chose the Patriot. But I also need the clearance and the skid plates. I'm learning to use the CVT and the low off road gear, and with ESP full off it works well. I hope I never need the tow hooks, but glad they are there. Water fording is not something I get into a lot on our trails, but nice to have 19 inches. Downhill crawl has come in handy a few times, but mostly don't need that either. It all depends on where you off road I guess. Having higher towing capacity is nice too, but I don't even have a hitch.

When I ordered mine, I went for the trail rated package, rather than a Limited or other interior upgrades, cause I needed it. I would have got a better stereo and some other nice touches, but that was all I could afford. Maybe in the next one, who knows.

My mileage is around 23 MPG or so anyway, so for me it was a good package.

 

I have the skid plates and the ground clearance is pretty much the same with my tires, no tow-hook but works well with the class 3 hitch, water fording is the same, and hill descent control is just for auto transmission... but the question is :

When off-roading threw big obstacles like boulders and logs, are automatics better for off roading the manuals ?

Isn't about FDI vs. FDII… the deal of talk about crawl ratio is between T-355 5-speed FD1 and CVT FD1, which you can't compare with FDII because there are no manual option with this package.

So.. The point is, in the case of crawl ratio, t-355 manual crawl ratio of 15.53 in the context of logs and boulders is better than cvt 14.37 ratio.

 

comes down to personal preferance

but the question is :

When off-roading threw big obstacles like boulders and logs, are automatics better for off roading the manuals ?
QUOTE]

personally i prefer Manuals
if engines were the same,
manuals allow you to raise the rpms, hence raise the torque level at slower speeds than an auto,

 

It seems there's two sides to EVERY story.

I prefer an Automatic for offroading. The extra torque multiplication and low speeds is very handy and makes the rough obstacles easier to maneuver with pedaling both the brake and gas at the same time.

With the Pat, there just isn't enough torque or gearing at low RPM's to effectively get over logs and such easily. With practice, and with possible burnout of your clutch, sure.

 

I don't think auto vs manual has anything to do with this problem.

it's all in the low gearing of the Wrangler. It's called a crawl ratio for a reason.

 

When off-roading thru big obstacles like boulders and logs, are automatics better for off roading the manuals?

Your problem with the log was due to the lack of low range. With a proper low range, there are pluses and minuses to both, so no, one can not make the categorical statement that one is better than the other. Some people prefer one kind of transmission over the other kind, but that's not the same thing.

If you mean without a low range like in our Patriots, then I feel that an automatic transmission is better. Like you pointed out, the lack of low range (or low gear) makes it hard on the clutch. Plus you'll be doing a lot of manipulating of three pedals with just two feet - this can get tricky if the driving gets very technical. On the other hand, with a CVT your maximum RPM at really low speeds (before the torque converter locks up) is limited - it is unknown if you could have slowly crawled over that log at all with an automatic...

The bottom line is that a Patriot just isn't the kind of an off-road vehicle a Wrangler is. And you can't make a comparison of an automatic and a manual transmission when one vehicle has a low range and the other does not.

 

I dunno if this situation is any kind of comparison but I have a 99 Cherokee Sport with an automatic and 4X4 Command Trac but without Limited Slip rear differential. I got temporarily stuck in the middle of a wind blown snow and ice covered stubble field. 4 Lo didn't help with the Michelin LTX M+S tires as they could not get traction on the ice underneath the snow drifts. I got out OK but I honestly believe the Patriot with TCS would have had no problem at all in that field. The Low range on the Cherokee is extremely handy for climbing steep hills when hunting but good tires sure help a lot too.

 

problem with cherokee sport



and most 4x4's
they are great for getting out of stuff,
can pull you out most anything,
yet, when it comes to stopping still at gravity's mercy,
i used to fishtail in light snow in the cherokee sport all the time,
would have to take turns slower in the cherokee than i did in the FWD neon

 

The Pat might do that with ESP full off.

I hate those vehicles that they call 4x4 that only use one drive wheel in the front, and one in the back when shifted into 4wd. They should be labeled as 1x1 not 4x4.

I also carry a set of chains all winter long, in the Patriot, my Tracker, and my Dodge Ram. The Ram can hardly pull away from a stop sign if the roads are just wet even, without the drive tire breaking loose. No weight in the back at all for traction.

 

Dixiedawg wrote "The Pat might do that with ESP full off."

In the icy field would the Pat be better with ESP On or Off ?

I know that cable chains will fit the Patriot and clear the struts with size 215 tires, does anyone know if chains would clear the struts if the tires were size 225 ?

 

If memory serves me right, it is better to have it on PARTIAL ESP.

PARTIAL ESP
This mode is entered by momentarily depressing the “ESP Control Switch”. When in “Partial Off” mode, the TCS portion of ESP, except for the “limited slip” feature described in the TCS section, has been disabled and the “ESP/TCS Indicator Light” will be illuminated. All other stability features of ESP function normally, with the exception of engine power reduction. This mode is intended to be used if the vehicle is in deep snow, sand or gravel conditions and more wheel spin than ESP would normally allow is required to gain traction. To turn ESP on again, momentarily depress the “ESP Control Switch”. This will restore the normal “ESP On” mode of operation.

WARNING!
In the Partial ESP mode, the engine torque reduction and stability features are desensitized. Therefore, the enhanced vehicle stability offered by ESP is unavailable.

NOTE: To improve the vehicle’s traction when driving with snow chains, or starting off in deep snow, sand or gravel, it may be desirable to switch to the “Partial Off” mode by pressing the ESP switch. Once the situation requiring ESP to be switched to the “Partial Off” mode is overcome, turn ESP back on by momentarily depressing the “ESP Control Switch”. This may be done while the vehicle is in motion.

Don't turn off ESP if you don't have too, or do it! Could be fun.

 

It's pretty amazing what that ESP system does to keep the vehicle on course. It's not surprising to me that the patriot in the video with ESP off really starts to understeer, I've noticed that a little just on gravel roads. I'm wondering if the driver of the ESP off vehicles was trying to keep it straight or trying to kick the rear end out to make the demonstration better...

As far as the OP's question: I would definitely say holding the motor at 5K is a bad idea. Spinning the clutch at that RPM will probably burn it out pretty quick. I think for the auto/man debate, with all other things like gearing being equal, comes down to preference. A manual should be able to do all the things an auto can, with a good driver. And with a manual you get added control and connection to the vehicle that an automatic will never have.

 

Not sure if my chains would fit that tire size or not, sorry.

ESP Full Off has been needed by me when stuck in a field of snow with ice underneath it. If you get stuck the wheels will not spin with ESP on, and sometimes you just need to spin a little bit to dig through the crap and get moving again. When I shift into L off road, the ESP automatically goes partial off.

On the road I would agree, leave it on as much as you can.

 

When climbing steep hills with a lot of snow (15" or more) or ice I turn off the ESP, but that has only been on drive ways and logging roads in the county. I normally will leave ESP on or use Partial ESP on-road because it is safer.

Like dixiedawg said, "On the road I would agree, leave it on as much as you can."

 

Is it odd that I can't wait for it to snow just so I can see how my Jeep does in the Pennsylvania snow?