Great review. Glad you enjoyed your ride.

 

Now thats what I'm talking about. Thats a great piece. Thank you for such a great article and truly putting the jeep to the test. Loved the Pics and the time taken to capture so many.

Now can my POS Ford hold out till the FDII come out.

 

ExpeditionWest,

I have several questions you may be able to answer:

1.) In your opinion, what is the limiting factor in the Patriot. In other words, what is the first thing to fail on the trails? Lack of torque, lack of ground clearance, traction, etc?

2.) Is it possible to add a lift to this vehicle, even though it has already been lifted 1"? If so, how much do you think this would have increased its performance? If it had a 2.5 - 3" lift would it have made it through the snow covered course that required a winch?

3.) Compare this vehicle to the current Liberty. Also, Grand Vitara...

4.) Is this vehicle worth modifying? Lift kit, bigger tires, new fender (approach angle/winch), K&N air filter...etc?

5.) Lastly, would this vehicle work with an ARB locker?

 

ExpeditionWest,

I have several questions you may be able to answer:

1.) In your opinion, what is the limiting factor in the Patriot. In other words, what is the first thing to fail on the trails? Lack of torque, lack of ground clearance, traction, etc?

Gearing. Either adding a helical LSD in the rear or deeper CVT gearing (or both) would be the next step for the platform. Anything else and it would create a cascading series of compromises, like reduced economy, poor handling, etc.

Even though it is best in class, it is still a 4cyl powered cross-over SUV. For what it is, I am very impressed with the overall balance of trail performance, economy and handling.

2.) Is it possible to add a lift to this vehicle, even though it has already been lifted 1"? If so, how much do you think this would have increased its performance? If it had a 2.5 - 3" lift would it have made it through the snow covered course that required a winch?

-- It has struts on all corners. Adding new (longer) springs would be easy to do, but remember the limits of IFS. As you gain height, you are only increasing compression travel at the cost of extension travel. Fortunately, the Patriot suspension design does have good travel numbers, so another 1" of lift would be a good fit, especially if the spring rate was consistent with the load you carried.

-- Additional lift would not have affected the winch recovery. The hill was at the limits of traction with the snow. It was safer for the vehicle to pull cable and with the falling snow, I knew there was still miles of terrain to cover.

3.) Compare this vehicle to the current Liberty. Also, Grand Vitara...?

-- The liberty has a V6 and true low-range, but no better maneuverability or dimensions. Liberty has good aftermarket support. The Liberty has a slight trail advantage, but much less economy and road performance.

-- I like the new Grand Vitara, but it has none of the skid plates and over 1" less ground clearance. The engine and drivetrain really push it into a different classification (lower fuel economy too).

-- The Patriot's competition is in the economy, cross-over segment, which includes the CRV, RAV4, Tucson, Escape, etc.

4.) Is this vehicle worth modifying? Lift kit, bigger tires, new fender (approach angle/winch), K&N air filter...etc?

-- Sure! If I had one, I would add light duty rock sliders, a rack, front and rear (exhaust) skid plates and slightly larger tires. Maybe a 1" lift. I would keep the modifications simple and just enjoy the high-speed dirt performance and economy.

5.) Lastly, would this vehicle work with an ARB locker?

-- A helical LSD would be a better choice IMHO and allow for some mechanical advantage to the traction control. I use ARB's in all of my vehicles, but the modification market will be too small for ARB to play here. Helical diff's and traction control is a sweet combo.

 

I enjoyed the review and pics. Good to know that the Patriot is indeed a capable off-road rig

 

Not to bother you with another question, but how would you say this compares to a stock 1997-2001 Jeep Cherokee/ XJ off roading and overall?

 

This is a great question. I am a huge fan of the XJ, for many reasons (looks, functionality, weight, etc.).

There is a 20 year contrast in technology, and I would take the Patriot in stock form. The performance (handling), economy, comfort, dampening and most importantly- safety (SRS, side impact, ESP) are light years ahead.

Just spend ten minutes on a corrugated road and you will be a believer

There are also times when the Patriot will outperform the XJ on the trail. In crossed axle terrain (traction control) and at high speed.

But, the Cherokee has endless aftermarket support, and can be made into any flavor you want, from a JeepSpeed SCORE truck to a 4+ Rock Crawler, and anything in between.

If you want pure trail performance, buy and mod the XJ. For the other 99% of driving most people do, buy the Patriot. The Patriot does the other 99% so much better.

I am a hopeless traditionalist when it comes to 4wds, but I really fell for the Patriot. It is a cross-over that looks good (functional) and can run 2-2.5 trails all day long with an experienced driver. Then get back on the highway and smile as you get 30 mpg with the seat warmers on and the Sat radio kicking out of the Boston Acoustic stereo

 

EXCELLENT WRITE-UP! Adding to the homepage. I'm sure there's lots of folks who'd love to read this.

 

Thanks for the review and great pics!!....I notice that the Khaki colored Patriot didn't have a trail rated badge while the green and black one did....

1. ...just wondering if you are you able to notice the 1 inch difference in ground clearance between the trail rated and non trail rated Patriot when you are looking at them with the naked eye?

2. ....was there a huge difference in real world performance between the trail rated and non trail rated Patriot?

 

Thanks for the review and great pics!!....I notice that the Khaki colored Patriot didn't have a trail rated badge while the green and black one did....

They were both trail rated, just an early series

 

Independent front suspensions operate within a range, from compression jounce (bump stop) to extension (limited by jounce or shock length).

There are essentially three dimension you work with:

Compressed measurement
Extension (full droop) measurement
Static ride height

For example, lets say the Patriot has 8" of total suspension range, from compression to full extension. The static ride height is usually somewhere in the middle, typically favoring more compression.

If you add a longer spring, you only change the static ride height variable, as the compression and extension limits of the suspension are still the same (and expensive to modify).

So if you start out with 3" of extension and 4" of compression and you want to add 1" of lift, you end up with 5" of compression and 2" of extension as the basic suspension limits have not changed.

Too many people do not know this limit of independent suspensions, and they end up with a poor riding vehicle (with no extension travel left).

Just remember, ever inch of additional ride height will cost you an inch of extension travel, unless other suspension modifications are made, but then you start to reach the limits of the CV axles operating range (angle of operation).

Hope this helped

 

Thanks for the outstanding write up expeditionswest!!!!!!

The Patroit keeps getting better and better!!!!

 

Thanks Expedition West, we were eagerly waiting for that! I can't wait until the Patriots hit dealerships en masse.

 

Great testing and great report, ExpeditionsWest. Glad to see the "Deep Sand" part, as that's been my biggest concern as love to surf fish. Seen lots of drivers and lots of vehicles that did great elsewhere but couldn't make it in the sand.
If it did fine at street tire pressure, it should definitely be ok dropped down to 18-20 PSI on the shore. Thanks again. Guess I'm sold!

 

Thanks for all of the kind feedback everyone

 

The trail-rated mpg of the Patriot is the reason I removed it from my final choice when I was picking a vehicle. The gas wasn't terribly bad, but the tank is only 13.5 gallons, so I felt the combination of the 2 would lead to lots of trips to the gas station. Plus I live in Oregon where it's against the law to pump your own gas, so I hate going to the gas station. It just doesn't feel right having someone pump my gas for me, plus I'm anti-social.

 

Hey, what's wrong with Oregon law? If someone else wants to pump gas for me I say go for it!

I know what you mean about the frequent trips to the gas station. But you get used to it, after awhile it isn't a big deal. I had a Toyota MR2 once and it had a very small tank. With that thing your mileage ranged quite a bit depending on how you drove it. Sometimes I only got about 230 miles on a tank.

 

Another question: How much time did you spend in 4-low on your climb? Did you switch it on only when needed or were you crawling along the whole way up?

Thanks - and great writeup

 

I left the vehicle in 4-Low the entire trail. As it is a CVT, you can run up to 40mph+ in that gear and have all of the advantage of the max spark advance, etc.

 

230 miles is all I get out of my Liberty and it's got an 18 gallon tank!

Thanks for the thread e-west - lots of useful information in here!

 

Big thanks for the article! Even the questions I would have asked were already in the post!

 

The problem with Oregon law concerning pumping your own gas, GB1, is that it easilly turns a 2 minute self-serve job into a 10-minute tooth-grinder. Plus, Cooter always manages to either scratch my vehicle or pump gas all over the fender. AND, they don't take money outside - you STILL have to get out of your vehicle (remember, it rains a lot in Orgeon) and go inside to pay. Places like 7-11 make you go inside to pay first, them go back to your car and wait for some knuckledragger to come over and damage your new Patriot. Wow!!

 

1. Half the time the person pumping the gas is not someone you would ever want to talk to or let touch your vehicle or give your credit card to.

2. It's awkward to get out of your vehicle to check your oil, or clean your windows. You either have to have a conversation which you may not be in the mood for, or they look at you like you're crazy.

3. You could get the job done much faster if you could pump your own.

4. It makes me feel uncomfortable everytime I go to have another man pumping my gas for me. Men in America take care of themselves !

 

How does Jeep provide the extra 1-inch of ground clearance on the trail-rated version? Is is strictly accountable to the AT tires, or is the suspension different?

 

Great post and report! Greatly appreciated. That's what I was looking for, not just the canned, magazine-to-manufacturer-friendly generic article. As I am in the market for a Patriot (92 YJ and 94 ZJ, many Jamborees and trails later, need a kinder ride for fuel efficiency...).

Now you state having the FDII and Crawl-ratio version of the Patriot, then say you get out on the road and get 30mpg, then agree with someone saying that the Full Off-Road version only gets 21-23mpg... Which is it? Or rather, how did you truly do (mpgs) on-road and off-road?

 

I was driving early vehicles, before the MPG had been finalized, so I used the numbers available at the time.

I would recommend using the results that members here have seen in the real world. IMO you should expect low to mid 20's in mixed driving and light off-roading (no sand). That was what I experienced, and I have a heavier right foot than most ;-)

 

I hope eventually they have way more mod options available but not just for the FD11, unfortunately nobody in Phoenix had one available and it was a sh!t or get off the pot situation so I went w/the next best. 2.4L 4x4 CVT which I believe makes it the FD1 but not sure?

Expeditionswest question for u!

do you think it's possible to gear up the FD1 up so that it can handle #2 rated trails? I'm new to all this and dang it I want to get out there and get into trail riding...! Oh, and I'm talking minor upgrades, nothing too expensive or extremely in depth as I have no type of garage available and I'd be affraid to screw up such a great vehicle! ha!

 

expeditionswest - Thank you for testing a Patriot... I've been on all of those trails and I am very surprised that you made it home alive but even more surprise that a Patriot could make it through.

Patriot Owners - your CAR is what it is... If you decide to do stuff like this full time your going to have make some serious modifications and only if you can find what your looking for. If you want to go off roading full time I would get a true 4x4 that can take a beating over and over again..

I like my Patriot... but it was made for the street not the trails... If I'm going off road I'm not taking my Patriot...

 

expeditionswest - Thank you for testing a Patriot... I've been on all of those trails and I am very surprised that you made it home alive but even more surprise that a Patriot could make it through.

You are welcome. I have worked on several proof of performance projects with Jeep, including the recent Liberty crossing of the Rubicon.

As a crossover vehicle, the Patriot is actually quite exceptional, with the LR2 (Freelander) being the only equal, yet with a $15k premium

The key to all of these trails with a Patriot is to use the vehicles positive attributes to help navigate the obstacle. Maneuverability and stability allows the driver to select non-tradition lines to get through.

For the four-peaks and Crown King routes, the Patriot did very well. It is important to note that the trails were driven by an experienced driver, so the whole "Closed Course, Professional Driver" warning applies...

The FDI is a good vehicle for improved surfaces or the beach (sand). I would rate it's maximum capability with an average driver as a 2 rated trail, based on my five scale. The FDII just sneaks into the 2.5...

Essentially, they both do great on dirt roads that are maintained, like most forest service roads and desert two-tracks. Rocks begin to really test the platform. The are a blast in the sand, so small dunes and sand tracks and beaches are a perfect environment. It is always best to operate a vehicle at 80% or less of its capabilities, which allows for driver error and changes in weather, etc.

Here is my trail rating "guide"

Hope this helps

 

Outstanding!

Question: Did you happen to do any testing of the FDI equipped Patriot in off-roading conditions? It would be interesting to hear an experts opinion about the limitations and how best to overcome them of a non-Trail Rated Patriot.

Due to the higher fuel consumption of the FDII, not to mention the fact that they simply do not import the Trail Rated version everywhere, I imagine I would not be the only one interested in this.

 

It would be good to know as the Freedom Drive II isn't available in the UK