[FailWheelDrive]

failwheeldrive - I don't see how this won't still impact the cv angles. If you could lower the entire engine/tranny combo by an inch in the engine bay, then yeah, you'd gain an inch overall. Simply lowering the a-arms will alleviate the stress on the ball joints (supposedly), but won't your axles still be running at a higher angle?

You really have to understand how the Patriot is laid out...

The engine/trans is mounted on the subframe, so as you lower the subframe the engine and trans drop along with it.

Now on the other hand the hubs don't move, they stay where they are...

So if you think about it by dropping the engine/trans with the subframe, but not moving the hubs you are leveling out the CV joint angle.

Same for the ball joints: the hubs don't move, but the side of the lower control arms connected to the sub frame drop, thus correcting the ball joint angle.

 

[FailWheelDrive]

Ha! Sorry not trying to come across as a jerk (it just comes naturally).

No doubt there are other items like upper motor mounts on the Patriot, but again it just comes down to a few longer bolts and spacers.

There may be enough slack in the lines, or some lines and not others, or there may not. It's really just one of those things that someone has to try.

I honestly think that even a 1" body lift would be worth it to the tune of say $200-$250... especially if it was just enough to safely/reliably allow for the use of Stu's in conjunction with the RRO kit.

From a cost perspective I'm skeptical upgraded CVs are worth it. There is a guy on here somewhere that has one off axles with upgraded CV joints, pretty sure they were big dollars... and I'm not sure if they even solved his problem.

Then again upgraded CVs might be worth it if they allow the use of Stu's & RRO together... who wants to spend the money and try?

 

[Earthworm51]

The Patriot is a unibody like the Jeep Cherokee. The body is welded to the frame. You don't do a body lift to either one of them. A Jeep CJ or Wrangler, yes as the body is bolted to the frame and you can do a body lift.

 

[FailWheelDrive]

Yup the Patriot is unibody but there are still front and rear subframes that bolt up to the unibody.

 

[snokat]

RRO got back to me and it looks like the upper control arms are shorter these days to allow`for the extra height of the new('11-'12) coil springs. Aparently my older arms may or may not work and that we can go ahead and try it, or get their new offering or shorten the existing arms.

So, if they are too long the Pat will be bow-legged til it's corrected?
Do I have this right? And how much shorter, 5mm,10mm,...?

I'm also considering doing just the rears for now(old school).....I had to drink on this last night. I think I need to see the backend up before I go all-around. Why not?

Receiver on the new hitch is 14" off the ground at present. I'm letting it 'settle' before I torque it down. I'll post a pick later.

 

[FailWheelDrive]

RRO got back to me and it looks like the upper control arms are shorter these days to allow`for the extra height of the new('11-'12) coil springs. Apparently my older arms may or may not work and that we can go ahead and try it, or get their new offering or shorten the existing arms.

So, if they are too long the Pat will be bow-legged til it's corrected?
Do I have this right? And how much shorter, 5mm,10mm,...?

Yup, I posted about this when I installed my lift. The upper arms they sent me couldn't be adjusted short enough to dial out the additional positive camber since the 11-12 sit an 1" or so higher.

RRO sent me out a new set of control arms that are 1" shorter and now I have plenty of adjustment left.

If you have ~1/2" of threads showing left the way your arms are currently adjusted you may still be able to use them.

One thing I forgot to mention previously is that with the RRO lift and 11-12 springs my rear tires are very close to the suspension in the rear.

If someone was to try and lift a Patriot even more (and use sub frame spacers, or CVs that could handle increased angles) they would most likely have to run wheel spacers or low offset wheels (at least in the rear) to be able to clear the suspension.

It's weird but makes sense if you think about it... the more you lift an independent suspension past it being level the narrower the track becomes.

 

[zing43]

I have a set of 2011 coils I will sell for 180.00 plus shipping, they have a 1000 miles on them

 

[Earthworm51]

Yup the Patriot is unibody but there are still front and rear subframes that bolt up to the unibody.

Please do a unibody lift, take photos and post step by step instructions. I want to see it, ain't gonna happen. Show me Unibody Spacers for a Jeep Cherokee from any of the Aftermarket Suspension Companies. Try Rubicon Express, they specialize in Jeep lifts. I believe they were bought by 4Wheel Parts.:wow:

 

[cmoore]

Please do a unibody lift, take photos and post step by step instructions. I want to see it, ain't gonna happen. Show me Unibody Spacers for a Jeep Cherokee from any of the Aftermarket Suspension Companies. Try Rubicon Express, they specialize in Jeep lifts. I believe they were bought by 4Wheel Parts.:wow:

Are you saying its not possible?

Edit: never mind. I read your other posts that I missed.


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

 

[snokat]

Stopped by my local guy to check wheel alignment and rotate the new tires.
First he discovers that the front camber bolts were installed backwards by 4Wheel Parts, so he does just the caster and toe...4Wheel can switch them and adjust them as well.
So he does the back which is now perfect again. The coils have really let the toe alignment get way off. Not looking so knock-kneed now back there.
I've measured from the ground upto the top of the plastic sliders and have 15" on both sides front and back.
Going off-roading later today and tomorrow morning.
Now I know why we only got 38k miles out of the last set.
Don't tell PepBoyz.

 

[Earthworm51]

I had some work done years ago on my Jeep Comanche by 4Wheel Parts, I ended up fixing their sub=par work myself. I had an alignment done on my Patriot at Pep Boys and the Manager told me I needed to buy adjustable camber bolts at which time I went out into their shop and showed him that my Patriot DID have adjustables already on it. It was on a Saturday and the wait wasn't long. Next time I'll go to a Firestone for an alignment, one shop in town has done the best alignments out of all other places. Some places do an alignment right the first time and others just do an alignment, Firestone has done it right the first time. The average person or some persons would not know the difference between an alignment done right or wrong all they would know is that they got an alignment. I bet a person could get an alignment at one shop then take the vehicle to another shop and have them check it and they would say it needed an alignment all in the same day. Moral of the story is find a good shop and stay with them.

 

[ironkique]

You shouldn't have done an alignment if your planning on changing your springs. and the camber bolts can't be put in backwards. The WASHER can. One way is for negative camber, and the other is for positive. all you have to do is back out on the bolt and turn the washer 180*. These bolts have to come out when you change out the springs anyway so I'd hold off.

 

[snokat]

Absolutely understand, that is why I have held off, we have decided to stay with the coils for the near future, live with it if performance doesn't go down. I know about the tab on the washer, so this will be fun.
I'm seeing 4WheelParts on monday or tuesday, they laughed as well.
I'll post about the outcome, rest assured.:doh:

 

[snokat]

UPDATE

So it turns out that yes, I need new coils if I want an alignment, otherwise the front camber will be OFF. It's not pulling, it goes straight, I do have to check for crabbing, but I still need new coils, they have drooped that much, almost an inch.

I need to ID the p/ns for the new FDI coils all-around, I have found two differnet sets of p/ns, must be FDI and FDII. Shouldn't be more than $180-$200 plus the labor.

So I have wasted some cash during this process, but learned some more interesting info about our Riots.
Steering rack can be moved to allow for the old tired coil springs, but it is expensive and a waste.....just do(the coils) it!!!

I need to look around for a labor price if I have time later today.

Semi-major event going on here, looks like some cash is going out very shortly.

FYI The first technician never considered doing the coils when he said "the cam bolts were in backwards", even though I told him and his boss the coils had drooped. At least 4WheelParts knew they were the cause.

So thanks to all who suggested doing the coils first and then the alignment. Never had a vehicle go through this before, lesson learned.

 

[ironkique]

Just realized I posted the wrong link last time. Here's a good part # comparison.

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showpost.php?p=297541&postcount=55





I believe that the FDII springs are stiffer. And it seems to me that you need stiffer banana
since you've squatted so much in such short time. It may take some digging to figure out the spring specs....

 

[snokat]

Looking for taller and same stiffness.
'07s & '08s have a stiffer spring, then it was softened for the '09s & '10s with the new dash. Jeep changed it for REAL in '11, stiff again and now taller.
Tx for the p/ns.
I have to pay some bills before I get around to this.

 

[snokat]

UPDATE

We rotated the wheels and the vehicle rides straight and drives well on and off-road, even with the front camber having too much negative camber due to the coils.

I'll keep an eye on wear during the next 10k miles and two rotations. Haven't done any measurements since the alignment, so I'll try and do a few, and make a post log.

 

[shirk]

Any idea how much stiffer the '11 rear springs are?

I have major sag issues I need to fix. I have an 09 FDI and we do a fair bit of mountain biking, once we load 4 bikes on the back rack and four people I have almost zero clearance.

The extra stiffness is much needed, the added lift would just be a bonus.