why are stu's out of the equation?
i thought you said that you have the rro lift.meaning your springs are oem.
i don't get it.

 

I may be wrong, but I believe Stu's new HD springs don't work with the RRO lift.

 

stu's older and new are not recommended with rro,as it will overstress the cv joints.
what might be interesting to try is 2011 spec OEM coils.
they are taller than 07-10 OEM coils b ut lower than stu's.
i'd go for them with the rro lift

 

they are taller than 07-10 OEM coils b ut lower than stu's.

Are you talking about struts or coils? I agree if you're talking about coils that 2011+ gained an extra inch but I thought struts have remained the same since 2007.

 

Interesting thought, I'll check the strut p/n against mine and see if they are different. If they are the same it may work.

 

Apparently some people here did it and it works.
Should be somewhere under Suspension,can't remember where,but I definitely read it.

 

You can't use the STU's and a RRO.... Ask failwheeldrive. He can tell you why


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You can't use the STU's and a RRO.... Ask failwheeldrive. He can tell you why

I got a couple PMs on this that I think were prompted by this thread so I'm going ahead and putting my 2 cents in: :blah:

I think the Stu's/RRO combo is "possible"...

It's just that a couple other suspension pieces would have to be upgraded as well for it to work & be reliable.

Since both the Stu's and RRO kit individually push the ball joints and CV angles just about to their limits, combining them would cause issues. The CVs would probably start binding up right away, or at least when you tried to accelerate, and the BJs would likely fail pretty quickly because they'd be operating at an angle that they just aren't meant to. Tie rod angle might be an issue too.

I do have a simple idea that might solve the angle issues of the combined spring/spacer lift pretty inexpensively... keep in mind that it's just an idea at this point and pure speculation:

Create a second set of spacers to space the front and rear sub frames away from the unibody.

The top of the struts mount to the body, and the bottom to the lower control arms. By increasing the space between the body and sub frames the CV/BJ angles should decrease.

This idea could be proved (or disproved) by simply putting a Patriot up on jack stands, putting the front sub frame on a jack, removing the sub frame bolts, and seeing how far you could safely lower it down until things like a brake/coolant/clutch/wiring/fuel line become a limiting factor. Of coarse while doing this watch to see if the CV/BJ angles change. Then make a spacer this size (who knows even 1/2"-1" could make a decent difference and allow a bigger lift or the spring/spacer combo).

Now you might be saying, FailWheel why would we want to drop the sub frames... won't that decrease ground clearance? The answer is yes that it would decrease ground clearance at the sub frames, but it would still lift the body up and help out approach angles. Plus it might allow bigger tires to be fitted.

If this idea worked out a company like RRO could easily just figure out how far they could space the sub frames and then make their strut spacers larger until they were just under pushing then CV/BJs to the limits again.

If this worked for the Patriot it might end up being smarter to combine both the spring lift and spacers. Since different Patriots have different springs from the factory, it would take that X factor out of the equation so one kit would fit all Patriots.

Maybe only one brake line is the difference between 1/2" and an 1" and it's not too hard to replace. Maybe you can barely drop the subframe without wrecking stuff. Maybe it can be dropped 2 inches with no issues.

It's one of those things we just won't know for sure until someone tries and even then I'm sure it will take some trial and error.

Maybe someday I'll drop my front sub frame to see how far it could go and how much of a difference if would make.

How sick would a Patriot with a 4" lift and >30" tires be? :rockon:

Then again >30" tires might be too much weight and too much from a gearing perspective so it might just not be worth it.

 

If you want to prevent sag, you could swap the RRO for the STU's coils. I should be about the same height, but better quality coils that will hold up

Sent from my Nexus 7 using AutoGuide App

 

I wish it were possible to put the STU coils and a RRO kit on a 2011.... that would be nice

 

I talked to my bud with a lift bay, he's an $85/hr guy when you are paying full price, and the book(program) puts almost 8 hrs on the job. He thinks 6 is more like it.
Our opinion here is to go with the coils as is, the struts look fine. Beat it up and if I don't like it, swap out new aftermarkets or the '11s coils, it should work.
Nothing against Stu's, I am sure they can't be beat, the RRO dudes arrived first with a lift ( 4 years this month for us) and we have had a great experience with it. It takes the sting out of losing almost an inch.
So we are only as high as an FDI for now.

 

If you're going to replace the springs you might as well replace it with Taller firmer springs from 2011-2012 FDII so as to minimize any possible future sagging.

This is the most comprehensive information I could find
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showpost.php?p=297541&postcount=55

from
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12533&highlight=FDi+FDii+springs

 

I agree with the others. If you're going to swap springs out pick up a set of 11-12 springs or any FDII springs....

Then again depending on how long the adjustable upper control arms are that RRO provided you with you may not have enough adjustment left.

I had to have RRO send me out custom shorter arms to have enough adjustment to dial the camber in on my 12.

 

Update:

I got thinking and came to the realization that I'm certainly not smart enought to be the first one to think of this...

Did some research (googling) and found out the the Subaru guys do subframe lifts pretty regularly to help out with the exact same issue of the screwed up suspension geometry of too much lift on an independant suspension setup.

Now it's just a question of who has the grundle/cohones to make this happen for the Patriot.

 

Here's a thread all about how the Suby guys are lifting, and body spacers are listed at the end

 

You really have to understand how the Patriot is laid out...

The engine/trans is mounted on the subframe, so as you lower the subframe the engine and trans drop along with it.

Now on the other hand the hubs don't move, they stay where they are...

So if you think about it by dropping the engine/trans with the subframe, but not moving the hubs you are leveling out the CV joint angle.

Same for the ball joints: the hubs don't move, but the side of the lower control arms connected to the sub frame drop, thus correcting the ball joint angle.

 

I zipped off a note to RRO today, told them who I am from four years ago and put it to them as far as exactly what I had installed vs. exactly is needed and how much?

And yes! I agree that if it can be done with the newer Pat coils that would be worth the effort.

Stay tuned, I see another How-To for the Knowledge base. My wife is gonna kill me.

Funny, my hitch just arrived to add to this issue. he-he Hope the ass doesn't drop to much with this hanging off it.

 

Is that Sheltie in the second pic?

 

Yup! T-Bear, all 38 lbs. of him. Alpha Dawg!

 

Nice! We have one too 2 year old male weighs whopping 13lbs.

 

Ha! Sorry not trying to come across as a jerk (it just comes naturally).

No doubt there are other items like upper motor mounts on the Patriot, but again it just comes down to a few longer bolts and spacers.

There may be enough slack in the lines, or some lines and not others, or there may not. It's really just one of those things that someone has to try.

I honestly think that even a 1" body lift would be worth it to the tune of say $200-$250... especially if it was just enough to safely/reliably allow for the use of Stu's in conjunction with the RRO kit.

From a cost perspective I'm skeptical upgraded CVs are worth it. There is a guy on here somewhere that has one off axles with upgraded CV joints, pretty sure they were big dollars... and I'm not sure if they even solved his problem.

Then again upgraded CVs might be worth it if they allow the use of Stu's & RRO together... who wants to spend the money and try?

 

The Patriot is a unibody like the Jeep Cherokee. The body is welded to the frame. You don't do a body lift to either one of them. A Jeep CJ or Wrangler, yes as the body is bolted to the frame and you can do a body lift.

 

Yup the Patriot is unibody but there are still front and rear subframes that bolt up to the unibody.

 

Please do a unibody lift, take photos and post step by step instructions. I want to see it, ain't gonna happen. Show me Unibody Spacers for a Jeep Cherokee from any of the Aftermarket Suspension Companies. Try Rubicon Express, they specialize in Jeep lifts. I believe they were bought by 4Wheel Parts.:wow:

 

RRO got back to me and it looks like the upper control arms are shorter these days to allow`for the extra height of the new('11-'12) coil springs. Aparently my older arms may or may not work and that we can go ahead and try it, or get their new offering or shorten the existing arms.

So, if they are too long the Pat will be bow-legged til it's corrected?
Do I have this right? And how much shorter, 5mm,10mm,...?

I'm also considering doing just the rears for now(old school).....I had to drink on this last night. I think I need to see the backend up before I go all-around. Why not?

Receiver on the new hitch is 14" off the ground at present. I'm letting it 'settle' before I torque it down. I'll post a pick later.

 

RRO got back to me and it looks like the upper control arms are shorter these days to allow`for the extra height of the new('11-'12) coil springs. Apparently my older arms may or may not work and that we can go ahead and try it, or get their new offering or shorten the existing arms.

So, if they are too long the Pat will be bow-legged til it's corrected?
Do I have this right? And how much shorter, 5mm,10mm,...?

Yup, I posted about this when I installed my lift. The upper arms they sent me couldn't be adjusted short enough to dial out the additional positive camber since the 11-12 sit an 1" or so higher.

RRO sent me out a new set of control arms that are 1" shorter and now I have plenty of adjustment left.

If you have ~1/2" of threads showing left the way your arms are currently adjusted you may still be able to use them.

One thing I forgot to mention previously is that with the RRO lift and 11-12 springs my rear tires are very close to the suspension in the rear.

If someone was to try and lift a Patriot even more (and use sub frame spacers, or CVs that could handle increased angles) they would most likely have to run wheel spacers or low offset wheels (at least in the rear) to be able to clear the suspension.

It's weird but makes sense if you think about it... the more you lift an independent suspension past it being level the narrower the track becomes.

 

I have a set of 2011 coils I will sell for 180.00 plus shipping, they have a 1000 miles on them

 

Stopped by my local guy to check wheel alignment and rotate the new tires.
First he discovers that the front camber bolts were installed backwards by 4Wheel Parts, so he does just the caster and toe...4Wheel can switch them and adjust them as well.
So he does the back which is now perfect again. The coils have really let the toe alignment get way off. Not looking so knock-kneed now back there.
I've measured from the ground upto the top of the plastic sliders and have 15" on both sides front and back.
Going off-roading later today and tomorrow morning.
Now I know why we only got 38k miles out of the last set.
Don't tell PepBoyz.

 

I had some work done years ago on my Jeep Comanche by 4Wheel Parts, I ended up fixing their sub=par work myself. I had an alignment done on my Patriot at Pep Boys and the Manager told me I needed to buy adjustable camber bolts at which time I went out into their shop and showed him that my Patriot DID have adjustables already on it. It was on a Saturday and the wait wasn't long. Next time I'll go to a Firestone for an alignment, one shop in town has done the best alignments out of all other places. Some places do an alignment right the first time and others just do an alignment, Firestone has done it right the first time. The average person or some persons would not know the difference between an alignment done right or wrong all they would know is that they got an alignment. I bet a person could get an alignment at one shop then take the vehicle to another shop and have them check it and they would say it needed an alignment all in the same day. Moral of the story is find a good shop and stay with them.

 

You shouldn't have done an alignment if your planning on changing your springs. and the camber bolts can't be put in backwards. The WASHER can. One way is for negative camber, and the other is for positive. all you have to do is back out on the bolt and turn the washer 180*. These bolts have to come out when you change out the springs anyway so I'd hold off.