winter tires?

 

I got stuck to, in a "snowdrift". Even with my Winter tires (Michelin XII). I tried every things (esp on; partial On,Off, 4X4, 4X2, Rev., Forward) Nothing happened. The only thing I can see, it's a lack of power.

 

Lack of power isn't the issue, the Patriot is smart sometimes too smart. Even with the 4x4 lock and ESP off the computer still has the final say to the point of limiting throttle control to save the transmission and other drivetrain components.

For everyday driving the Patriot is great, however in extreme conditions give me solid axles (or at least one in the case of my Dakota), mechanical shift t-case and a cabled throttle. I really do miss my Selec-Trac XJ in really bad weather.

 

Yep, what he said.
Jeep CJ :smiley_thumbs_up: Classic, tough, indestructible.

 

You didn't mention it, but it sure sounds like the ESP was not full off.
Did it say ESP off in your EVIC display?

 

He has an FDII and if he was in Low it is automatically turned off.

I got stuck bad once this winter but since none of my wheels could actually reach the ground I can't add much experience to the thread. I will say I had plenty of grip and power to get my self high centered on a good ridge to start with don't know what that says.

For a split second before I gave up on getting out I had one of the programs kicking in and it almost sounded like the hill descent program or traction control was trying to operate but couldn't tell for sure. Something kicked in. When I was in gear and no foot on the brake the engine idle wanted to turn the wheels a tiny bit ya know, but vehicle sensed the slip and was trying to do something, so I just put her in neutral and then in park and started digging. Didn't care what my pat was trying to do with all four tires suspended because I don't plan on doing that again. So yes, maybe the pat is a little too smart. Who knows.

New tires. MY SR-A's aren't horrible, but I will upgrade next fall before winter.

 

with the BFG's and the esp off I have been able to push though most anything sofar.

 

was your esp off and were you using a low gear(1,2) and not just in drive(D)?

 

I can relate to the "no power" problem as it has happened to me a few times. I was out around christmas time seriously beating on the patriot in some fields and as the attached pick shows some big ridges.



Now I had the "no power" thing come up when I tried backing my patriot up this ridge that you see in the picture. it didn't matter what mode of 4x4 i was in. 4x4 Locked and in Low and nothing would happen just revs to around 2500. Without being locked and just in low nothing would happen. esp was off, partial off and full on I tried everything

I did however conclude that in my opinion it was lacking in power, because if i rocked the pat ever so slightly and got one tire spinning that allowed for power to start being sent around to the tires and then they all started to spin. So really in this case it felt like I was torque limited.

Either way i'm not hating on the pat in anyway, everyone that see's mine in off road type situations is rather suprized and would have never thought it was as capable as it really is.

 

Farrel, I was in a similar situation this past weekend and thought ****, I am going to need to be towed.

I was in drifts up to the headlights and I floored it, no tire spin and stuck at 2500 RPM. I put in in ESP partial off and same thing. Then I just sat there and thought. I put it in to 4x4, ESP partial off and slowly added throttle, amazingly enough, all four tires began to spin and I was moving like there was no snow in the way.

To the nay sayers, I call shenanigans cause this ting is very predictable and very capable. Solid axles would not help but would probably hurt as you now have a small plow stuck under your car about 12 inches off the ground. all of the mechanical connections and you wouldn't have the ESP and anti-roll mitigation. The Pat is a very capable 4x4 car (for all intense purposes) and comparing it to an off road beast is completely unfair.

 

interesting to hear about your technique to get the wheels spinning, i'll have to go out and try to do the same thing one of these days and report back.

 

So Tyler, your Riot is on winter tyres or not? I have never experienced lack of power as I am driving diesel Riot...but had another type of problem that is related to manual transmission and lack of low gears, so consequencies are burned clutch in complicated situations...

 

Manual transmission also does not "think himself" as automatic does and woudn't limit your RPM-s (as here was mentioned: to 2500 RPM).

 

It sure sounds like the stall speed of the CVT and the limit of torque/power, not electronics. Same issue Dawson had off roading. Manual trans MK would not have that problem.

 

does anyone really know how to use the esp lol

 

I have no issues with when to use the availible ESP modes. I wish ESP Off worked the same at all vehicle speeds vs. the change @ 35mph, but otherwise, good.

 

I've experinced the throttle limiting too, even when ESPOFF is displayed in the EVIC. The only way to get throttle back to happy high revving for me was to stop in the muck (eek!), go to park, recycle the ESP mode back to ESP on, then ESPOFF (ding!), and try again. Something is still buggy - this has happened once in sand and once in mud.

I have also been on snowy roads, stopped at a stop sign without sliding, and had the car BARELY move, moaning like a stuck cow, stomping on the gas pedal to get clear of the approaching cars. Traction wasn't that bad, but the car didn't want to move.

I'm thinking there are still a couple software bugs lurking in the ETC / CVT controllers.

 

That is very wierd with the differences. Other than build date, your Pat and mine are identically equipped and the same year.

The little green hill descent light comes on when I put it in Low with 4x4 lock, but no ESP OFF without pressing the button.

As far as capability goes, I think all of this computer confusion is part of the reason the hard-core guys like the simple stuff. Solid axles, hard gearing, center differential, etc. With that they know exactly what is going on, and if they know what they're doing, they can adjust to the situation better than a computer can.

But I know for sure, that when I compare my old TJ Rubicon with my Pat, the Pat is far more secure on paved roads with snow/ice on them.

 

a pretty simple solution that'll save you the tow truck next time:

I got really stuck, and shovelled out two feet in either direction, and then drove out.

 

Hahahaha! Yeah, I keep a little shovel in the spare tire compartment too. Ya never know! It has many uses, but it's mostly designated for digging cat holes. Any piece of equipment that does more than one thing is worth its weight in gold.

I've done some major off-roading in my Patriot and have really pushed it a few times. To get the best performance, I also have the ESP full off and the CVT2 in position 1- with 4x4 lock as well (duh). With those settings, you can climb sand at 45 degrees! Snow should be a bit easier.

 

Yeah, a shovel would have made life easier! Thankfully the dude with the Dak went back to his work and got a shovel. And that's pretty much how I obtained the 30 feet of driving room. Given a few more hours I could probably have dug myself back onto the ruts!
For the record, my FDII displays "ESP OFF" on the EVIC when in Low or Reverse, with the 4WD Lock engaged. I tried every manner of ESP On, Partial Off, and Full Off to no avail.
I don't think it's a lack of power - shortly after purchase, we took a trip to the Rockies (Golden, BC) for Christmas and got DUMPED on. (And living in Alberta, if I say we got dumped on, I mean it!!) I plowed through all kinds of snow, without the slightest trouble. I was highly impressed then....not so much now.
Not to mention my windshield cracked that same morning - seemingly without any more provocation than the defrost - and it wasn't that cold out! That'll be the second windshield to give out in just over a year of ownership - and they're not cheap!

 

a quick pump of the clutch will solve this every time!

 

Ferrel,
You and Upkev might have just convinced me to go have the dealer check the programming. My '08 sure doesn't act the same as your guys.

 

Before the transmission was replaced, 4lock + Low gear did nothing to ESP mode.

After the transmission was replaced (Dec '08), 4lock + low gear changes the ESP mode to partial off. I still need to press the button for ~6 seconds to get the ESP full off. I can do this while the vehicle is moving and while it is in gear, it does not need to be at a full stop or in park/neutral.

 

ESP MODE



MY ESP WORKS THE SAME WAY.WHEN I REALLY GOT STUCK I USED MY WINCH. IT'S THE LAZY MANS SHOVEL.
EJO AND THE OLE GIRL.

 

For offroading of any kind (snow, mud, dirt or otherwise) - a shovel, a 2x4, and a towel are must-haves.

Dig out. Get some leverage and push. And clean up before you get back in.

 

I actually had a similar no revs issue in my laneway this morning. I have the 5 speed FD1, and had esp partial off. There is about 10" of snow that was plowed from the highway at the end of my laneway. It's also on a pretty good incline. I tried stopping right in the middle of the mess to see if I could crawl out. I was unable to get moving forward at all, and with the clutch fully out, it would just bog and stall. With partial clutch, it would do nothing, but I could keep the revs up, as I would disengage the clutch it would just bog and want to stall.
I don't know, but I get the feeling that the brake lock traction control requires alot of power from the engine to work. I'm guessing it was trying to lock a front and back brake due to spinning tires and this was too much for the 4 banger to handle. I have never had a problem as long as I had some momentum, but from a dead stop she no go.

 

Upon rare occasion I have had the car go into "limp mode" because the controllers decided there was an engine/transmission problem. Limited power and rpm's. Turned the engine off and restarted and the problem went away.