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Chrysler is Planning the Death of the MK's

16K views 101 replies 37 participants last post by  johnda  
#1 ·
Chrysler bringing Alpha Romeo, dropping many Dodges, Jeeps

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From the Wall Street Journal:

Four months after exiting a U.S.-funded bankruptcy reorganization, Chrysler Group LLC is about to unveil a product roadmap that relies heavily on vehicles from Italian partner Fiat SpA while abandoning many of the U.S. car maker's own models.

The plan, due to be revealed Nov. 4, involves the reintroduction of Fiat's premium, sporty Alfa Romeo brand to the U.S. starting in 2012, according to people briefed on the plans. Chrysler also will introduce the 500, Fiat's tiny car that is popular in Europe, to Americans, though it won't attach the Fiat name to it. The company meantime is preparing to phase out many of the company's current models, particularly Dodge cars.

Fiat and Chrysler are working to create several new vehicles with Fiat technology for the U.S. market, including a midsize Chrysler-brand sedan slated to be released in 2012, according to these people.
The sweeping changes, due to play out over the next two to three years, represents a big gamble for Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne, who has staked his reputation on the turnaround. Mr. Marchionne, who successfully revamped Fiat, appears to be creating a vehicle lineup that stays true to Chrysler's blue-collar muscle car and pickup truck roots while adding European-styled vehicles to attract a new, more white-collar customer.

But in the short term, Mr. Marchionne's challenge is to keep the company afloat until 2012 when the bulk of the new offerings will come to the U.S. Currently, Chrysler is faced with shrinking market share and few new models coming to market. While it doesn't disclose its finances, Fiat has said repeatedly it won't inject any money into the Chrysler despite receiving a 20% ownership stake in the company's reorganization. Instead, it is contributing technology and management expertise.

"The biggest issue this company has is getting through the next few years," said Rebecca Lindland, an automotive analyst at IHS Global Insight. "They are going to have a hard time maintaining market share let alone increasing it."

Chrysler spokesman Gualberto Ranieri declined to comment on the product plan. Next Wednesday "is the day Chrysler group is going to present its five-year-long business plan," Mr. Ranieri said. Mr. Marchionne and senior executives will give a six-hour presentation to the financial community and media.

For most of the next two years, Chrysler will have to rely on much of its current product line until the new Fiat-derived vehicles arrive. The company is banking on two revamped vehicles due out next year, the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Chrysler 300, as well as juicing its marketing spending on its Jeep brand.

But analysts worry that Chrysler's market-share erosion will continue as consumers appear to favor smaller passenger cars -- not the trucks and sport-utility vehicles that make up the bulk of Chrysler's lineup. Chrysler's share of the U.S. market fell to 8.35% in September from 11.1% a year ago.
The decision to increase the number of brands at Chrysler runs counter to the current industry trend of brand consolidation. General Motors Co. cut back to four brands from eight under its own bankruptcy to reduce development and marketing costs associated with having so many names. Ford Motor Co. jettisoned its Jaguar and Land Rover and plans to sell Volvo.
Yet both Ford and GM have many more new products coming to market in the near future than Chrysler does, which could further hurt that company's sales, analysts say.

"What everyone is counting on is enough of an uptick in sales that will heal everybody fairly quickly," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich. After cutting costs sharply in bankruptcy this summer, Chrysler "may not have a lot of smash hits but I think there is a core market there that can be profitable for them."
Chrysler received $9 billion from the U.S. government as part of its bankruptcy. The company's cash position has improved since that time, according to a person familiar with the company, as production of vehicles restarted in full.

Under the new product plan, Chrysler plans to drop several Dodge products including the Caliber compact, the Nitro SUV and the Avenger sedan, but will keep the Dodge Challenger, a muscle car, and the full-size Charger sedan.
"I like that plan a lot. Dodge can be the performance brand. They don't have to be something to everyone, but they have to start being profitable," said Ms. Lindland of IHS Global Insight.

Mr. Marchionne aims to introduce the Fiat 500 subcompact to the U.S. in 2011 as the first offering from the Italian auto maker, according to a person familiar with the company's thinking. The 500 will be the only Fiat model to come to the U.S. and will be marketed as the 500.

The Alfa Romeo products will be launched in 2012 with the MiTo subcompact hatchback, followed by a midsize sedan in early 2013 and the Alfa Milano, according to this person. These vehicles will be made in North America.

As the Fiat models arrive, many current Chrysler models will die. The Jeep Commander is slated to end next year. And by 2012, the PT Cruiser, Chrysler Sebring midsize sedan and the Jeep Compass and Jeep Patriot SUVs all will exit the market. The auto maker also plans to phase out the Dodge Caravan minivan in the next five years, leaving the Chrysler Town and Country as the company's only vehicle in that segment

Based on a Fiat "platform," or underpinnings, Chrysler plans to introduce a new midsize sedan in 2012 as well as a compact Jeep a year or two later. A Chrysler compact sedan also will be developed for release in 2012 based on Fiat technology.

Reintroducing Alfa Romeos to the U.S. market will come with challenges, including defining the brand to a public that has very low understanding of it or even holds the brand in low regard. Alfa Romeo pulled out of the U.S. market in the mid-1990s, and has only sold a super-luxury sports car there recently.

"Bringing in the Alfa name I'm not sure how that is going to help Chrysler," said Adam Lee, president of Lee Auto Malls in Maine. "I'm just not convinced that people in this country have a warm spot in their heart or feel intellectually that it is a good product."

Looks like the end is near........:(
 
#5 ·
I still don't understand dropping the Patriot, but since they are dumping the Compass and Caliber (all built at the same Belevedere Illinois Plant), it doesn't surprise me.

Sad to see it go.....the Patriot has so much potential that's not even been realized. :(
 
#27 ·
Probably to be able to use that production line for the AR's. I guess they are betting on AR's selling at a better pace than the Patriot. Granted, I don't see it happening but then I am a Patriot owner who has twice owned AR's. AR's are not bad vehicles but they are highly misunderstood.

Personally, I would keep the Patriot running and slowly phasing it out as I phased in the AR's. If AR does not catch on, I can back out and still have something to work with.
 
#6 ·
Jeep expanded the line in the SUV crazed 1990s. For many years Jeep offered only the CJ, Wagon and Pickup. All shared most of the drive line parts. If Jeep returns to that 3 unit model they will probably survive just fine. The big difference is that Jeep also had a large market for industrial and utility vehicles. Now, being part of a larger company, Jeep probably doesn't need that market to make up capital. Still, sad to see American cars replaced by Fiat models. Fortunately there will always be old cars to fix and drive.
 
#7 ·
Fiat already sells the "500" in Mexico...were it sells well...the article above say they will bring it to the US as also the "500"...this not correct as Ford has registered the trademark "500: for the USA...so look for it to be called something else...btw it is a cool looking car...kinda like a BMW mini. I heard the Compass was going away soon...2010 will be the last model year for US but will be built into the future in certain markets like China under a licensing deal with a contract Chineese builder.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Yeah but I've heard that fiat wants jeeps to not last as long, they want you to buy a new car every like 10 years or so or whatever. I'm more conserned about wrangler going the way of Camaro for a while...dodo bird.

Pretty soon we're going to be driving around in Renault's with Compressed natural gas tank in the trunk like they do in Argentina :wow: :mad:

i know everyone is resistant to the fact that the Patriot (as we know it) will be eliminated post-2012...but this new "compact Jeep" that is mentioned could be pretty cool...
Image

ewwww
 
#10 ·
haha Dawson! I'm actually glad to see the Caravan go. Growing up, my Dad's company cars were all Caravans (until recently, town & country). I hated them! Cramped, poor design, and cheap. I will say that they had some giddy up though, but I hated the poor seats on 12 hour road trips to the Gulf of Mexico... grrrr. Now, if we owned a Patriot, those back seats are awesome!
 
#11 · (Edited)
the latest gen of Caravan had really crappy rear passenger seats. i know they wanted to make them stow-and-go...but the foam on those seats is so thin that even a modest amount of pressure makes you bottom out and it feels like you are sitting on plastic. :doh:

my prediction as to why they got rid of the Caravan is b/c it couldn't compete with the Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna, and Nissan Quest. the reason being is the quality of materials on the inside and features. the Chrysler version of the Caravan (Town & County) is a higher price-point vehicle with an interior and feature list that can compete with the Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, and Hyundai/Kia's.

the Caravan really is an iconic vehicle, and i hate to see it go too. Chrysler Caravan just doesn't seem to go together, but i would like to see an attempt made to keep the "Caravan" name is some way. "Town & County" sounds too old-fashioned...kind of like the Lincoln Town Car
 
#12 ·
Not to mention I didn't look too cool cruising main street by the beach in Clearwater/St. Petersburg in my Dad's Caravan...
 
#21 ·
I bought a neighbor's CARAVAN when I moved back from CO in '03. It had the V6 and boy would it move. I didn't mind it, it was quite comfy for road trips, had the captain's chairs in the middle, and tons of room for gear. I like the look of the new Chrysler minivans. But you're right, it still wasn't "cool".

Where do you wind it up? No, no, no,... I get it, you push it back and it shoots forward?
LMFAO
 
#15 ·
Yeah but I've heard that fiat wants jeeps to not last as long, they want you to buy a new car every like 10 years or so or whatever. I'm more conserned about wrangler going the way of Camaro for a while...dodo bird.

Doubt that will happen. Fiat LOVES Jeep, especially the Wrangler. Their plan is to expand the Jeep market overseas, which can only be good for those of us that own Grand Cherokees and Wranglers.

As for the "500", I believe (and I could be wrong) that Ford trademarked the "words" FiveHundred, NOT "500", so it may be possible for Fiat to use THEIR '500' here in the U.S. Besides, if Ford DID have the "500" trademarked, since they're no longer using it, there could be some sort of deal reached between the two so Fiat could use it here as well.

Money talks......:icon_rolleyes:
 
#16 ·
Figures, I need a small SUV that gets good mileage. I drove Trackers for a long time, 3 of them, until they stopped making those. Now I have the Patriot, and have been thinking of trading mine maybe next year for another one.

I drive a lot of miles, so I rack up the miles on a vehicle, at least 30,000 per year. Which is why mileage is important to me. And I live off road, so I need decent off road capability, at least ground clearance, skid plates, and good 4wd.

There won't be much left for me if the Patriot dies off.
 
#17 ·
If Fiat plans to get rid of the Caliber and Compass then the Patriot must go too. They will re-tool Belvidere or close it. The Patriot cannot sustain, at least not on the MK platform if the Caliber and Compass die. From Big Panda's original post, it sounds like there could be void in compact Jeeps come 2012. They have some fine tuning to do in their planning I think.
 
#18 ·
Well a 5 year run for a vehicle isn't bad. I wonder what they mean by compact jeep. Some would classify the patriot as a compact and others would think of something like the panda. I think overall that many of the popular features of the MK will end up in the new Jeep.

I did take note that they are juicing up the marketing of Jeep during their 2 hibernation years. Maybe this is an admission they know the MK is a great vehicle under marketed.

Overall assinine business move to basically do nothing but work behind the scenes for 2 years. I don't mind the prudent nature of regrouping slowly but they have to become more visible and wake up like GM did. They emerged fighting and while they have nothing new to offer they are loudly rebranding.
 
#23 · (Edited)
That report is total CRAP! Made up media garbage!

The Fiat CEO said they plan to restyle the Patriot and bring the PT Cruiser up to date. (and considering he runs the company, I bet he knows more than the reporter)

Unless the news is from Fiat or Chrysler, its just the media making crap up!

That reporter made that whole story up, not based on any FACTS at all.

They do this every time some news about Chrysler is about to come out, and get it WRONG almost every time.

Its time to hold the media responsible for irresponsible news reports, say a big fine! Reporting the news is one thing, Making it up to make sales is another.

The proof its made up garbage is the killing of the Dodge Caravan, that just ain't happening, The CEO was in Windsor, stated that Minivans are CORE to the new business model.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Probably best to wait for Fiat's official announcement. We were advised it was coming in November, most likely and more accurately, in the automotive press. Reacting to some financial reporter's stringing together of snippets and rumors into his or her "scoop" story might be premature. Even Fiat's official plans won't be carved in stone. This will be an ongoing evolution as the companies are still learning about each others strengths and deficiencies, how to best address them and how to profit in the ever changing marketplace.
 
#28 ·
Fiat have remained a fairly competitive car manufacturer when so many others are staring euthanasia in the eyes. They've done that by selling what their market wants. In Italy that's meant nippy little Cinquecentos and Puntos; in America it'll mean something else. I'm sure that they aren't so daft as to think that the USA Midwest, West and South just can't wait to get its hands on some tiny urban rollerskate designed for the streets of quaint little mediaeval Mediterranean cities. I'm sure it won't happen.
You guys forget that one of the reasons that we drive the cars that we do is dependant upon the local price of fuel. In Italy you need to arrange a mortgage before you go to the gas station; in the States they give the stuff away. Oh yeah, I know, a couple of you are going to start off about how gas prices are going through the roof an so on...Believe me, in America gas prices haven't even gotten to that place on the stair where Kermit likes to sit; they're nowhere near the roof. There are places in Europe where people have been paying about twelve dollars a gallon for as long as they can remember.
Once you've filled a vehicle up at those prices you'll be surprised how quickly you'll overcome your dislike of small cars.

Rocal

When I think about it, the prices issue is a bizarre thing in Europe. The range of prices is way, way wider than it is in the States. You guys are always telling me how things in California cost a lot more than in Texas, Arkansas, Indiana etc., but the differences aren't what they are in Europe. An example: my house costs six hundred thousand dollars; if any of yous fellers saw it you'd call me a goddamed liar. "Six hundred grand for that matchbox; I don't believe it". But that's British, German, Dutch, Danish house prices. There are other parts of the EU where the same money would buy you a place so big that you'd need a staff of ten to help you run it.
The only things I know that are more expensive in the States are medical stuff and airline tickets.
 
#29 ·
So move to the states. :smiley_thumbs_up:

Seriously tho. We are lucky with our gas prices for the most part, however I think its more of a fact that our inflation simply hasnt reached what europes has yet.

Tho the difference confuses me. Whats the reason?

Just out of curiousity, in your line of work (no specifics), would you make the same salary in the U.S.?

I ask this because, in Ohio I make decent money compared to the cost of living. If I were to move to cali, I would make 3-4 times what I make here, but thats to make up for the higher cost of living.

Would the same hold true from country to country?
 
#30 · (Edited)
In brief, Schoat, the answer is yes. Wages are dramatically different across the whole EU. That's why there is such huge migration in Europe. Wages in the newer eastern European countries are far lower than in, say, Germany, Britain, Holland and Scandinavia where they're similar to the States. It's been the cause of tremendous social and political upheaval. A bit like in America, where the suggestion of citizenship amnesties is guaranteed to provoke marches and mayhem.
On an amusing note, the Chief of Police in Romania was interviewed a couple of months back; I don't think he really realized what he was saying when he was asked for his opinion about Romania joining the EU. "Yes, EU wery, wery good. wery good. No criminals in Bucharest. All gangsters in Amsterdam, London, Dublin....."

Rocal

I used to be a teacher, but now I'm retired. In the present climate I'd find myself in the same bleak circumstances as an American, if I travelled abroad; both our currencies, the Dollar and the pound Sterling are dropping through the floor! In the medium term it might be a good thing; it should give our manufacturers a chance to recover as our exports might be a bit more competitive.
I think it's a bit cheeky for all the other countries to keep sounding off at the US and Britain for their part in the downturn. Apart from China I don't recall any of the others chucking any money into the pot to try to turn the situation around!
 
#31 ·
#32 ·
Why do you think they dropped Alfas from the US Catalogue some years back??? Bad electrics, build quality & poor reliability. Same as they dont sell Lancias in the UK--Nobody wants a car were the floor rusts out in exactly 3 weeks!!Yea build quality is now a lot better, but we Brits dont trust them & they are let down by the WORST run dealerships in the UK....
 
#35 · (Edited)
All part of the charm! Seriously though they have been great for me. As I said before I even have an alfetta - if you know about them or any 70's alfa it is amazing it is not a pile of rusty dust! They are cars (at least up to the 90's) that you have to be a tinkerer to enjoy. Heck, adjusting the valves is a routine maintenance item in the OWNERS MANUAL (not shop manual). Still a good folowing here in the US. Most are now in the hands of alfa enthusists as the rest were trashed and thrown away by people who did not know about the cars. I am not saying that the general public should have to know about the cars but buying an alfa because it is "cute" is the surest way to a) go broke, and b) swear off the brand forever.

Leonard
 
#37 ·
Archangel 689:

Damn, you are amazingly good with Photoshop! I wish I had your skill. I saw that same photo of a Fiat Panda 4X4 this morning when I googled "Panda" because I didn't know what the beast looked like that everyone had been mentioning.

When I first saw the image, I immediately thought.... "I wish I knew how to do more in Photoshop to transform it into the proposed "new Jeep".

You have amazing skills, and a good sense of humor!

PipeTobacco

*****************
Hoping to get my Patriot Soon!
2007-2010: Not Sure Which Yet
Manual Transmission
Any color other than black.
Probably 4WD
 
#38 · (Edited)
#39 ·
Yea I remember when Alfas were Alfas Fiat didnt poke its nose in untill 1973---I remember the Giulietta, Giulia & the Alfetta ( It came out in 72 ) Has yours got the 122bhp 4cyl 1,779 cc engine. Ibelieve this car had the Disc brakes & Transaxel fitted next to the differential.I not saying all FIAT influenced Alfas were bad , but they certainly lost some of the charisma & classic qualities of the Originals.
 
#42 · (Edited)
My alfetta is a 2000 (2.0l) hp around 130 with motronic pistons. The milano (75 in the UK) is a 3.0l v-6.

Both are transaxle cars (inboard rear brakes - all disks)

Fiat bought Lancia in the late 60's - early 70's not Alfa. Alfa was not assimilated by Fiat till 86-87. The 75 was the last Alfa designed by independant Alfa. Fiat owned them durring most of the production run.

Alfa/Fiat had always only sent the "high end" models over - all alfettas were 2000's, all 75's were V-6's (2.5 and 3.0). Never got the 33's. All 164's were 3.0l v-6 (some 12v, later 24v).

Leonard
 
#40 ·
Here's one reason to be optimistic. Years ago on the Tomorrow Show, Tom Snyder was interviewing Enzo Ferrari. Snyder asked him about the best American sports car. He answered the Jeep. I'm hoping it was more out of respect for the Jeep rather than a slap at the Corvette. Hopefully the corporation holds some similar respect and appreciation for the brand as well.