Yes, it IS possible, given enough time and money.

No, it is not practical nor would it be an easy modification.

To "slip" in another gear, the transmission would have to be redesigned from the ground up.

If you were to modify the five speed transmission in the car, to keep the vehicle practical, you would need to modify the gear ratios for 1st, 2nd, and possibly 3rd. There will also be limitations on how "low" you can make these gear since it is a FWD transmission due to space restrictions. FWD transmissions tend to be very compact and light -- hence tight on space.

Another possibility would be a transmission swap with the six speed from the promised Caliber SRT4. I haven't seen any updates recently, but this is not being offered with an AWD option. It's a question of the AWD drivetrain holding up or an interference with the drivetrain.

This mod certainly wouldn't be easy or cheap at this point in time.

 

I guess I knew it wasn't practical to do this right now, nor is it going to be even close to a budget, but in your opinion isn't this something that just maybe is practical for Jeep to pursue for the manual transmission? There's not need to add a transfer case, nor is it a HUGE modification. This isn't impossible to do, and maybe I'm the only guy who thinks this type of transmission has any place in a vehicle line that's backbone has been the ablity to go off-road. Am I the only one.

 

6-speed manual is available in Europe, with the VW diesel engine

I'm with ya on the 6-speed for this kind of Jeep (awaiting mine eagerly, 5-speed North, Canada).

And if not, one should be able to get a new gearset for at least the first 3 gears (would be nice if someone made those...).

We'll keep asking, and hopefully it will become available for retrofit at some point.

BTW, I compared my old YJs low-range gear ratios with the Patriot's 5-speed first gear and, the (Pat's) first gear ratio (15.5:1) is somewhere between the YJ's 2nd and 3rd gear low, which I think is not too bad. The "Trail Rated" Pat's ratio is the same as the YJ's 2nd gear low range (19:1).

For those who are "drivers" (pick your off-road line and work it carefully) instead of stompers ("gas l' get you there!"), I think we will manage just fine with the 5-speed (or CVT) in moderate off-road situations.

 

Maybe in the evolution of the Patriot

You are right. For some reason CRX has pushed the CVTL2 as the preffered option for off road since it is the only thing available with the "Trail Rated" package. For some reason they have over looked this option. Optimistically you could maybe use size and weight and the fact that the transfer case is built into the main transmission as a justification. However, I think it is more cynical than that. Very few people want or even are capable of driving a manual transmission anymore.

Even given a manual's myriad of mechanical, engineering and economical benefits, it seems destined for the dust bin for passanger cars. Drivers today seem more interested in talking on their phones, playing with their GPS, or sipping their $4 latte while they complain about the price of gas than driving in a sane, reasonable, efficient manner. They have their phone in the left hand, they are alternately sipping coffee, adjusting things, pushing buttons on the stereo, GPS and EVIC and steering with their right. Who has time to shift gears? To hell with actually driving, I live here. The manual transmission is a true wonder of simplicity and functionality and I am happy that I could even get one in the Patriot.

If they would have had the 6 spd available for the Patriot, I certainly would have ordered it, but this also re-enforces my long held belief that even though they slapped the "Trail Rated" badge on it, I don't think they were really serious about it. I think it shows in the design and engineering. The Patriot was built to compete with the CR-V, RAV-4 and Outback among others. I think it is certainly the toughest/best contender within it's class, but still in that class alone. If you want "TRUE" 4wd capability you have to go up a class in my opinion to something like a Liberty.

Chrysler certainly (with the exception of the "Trail Rated" option) hasn't said anything to the contrary, but the "Jeep" brand in itself gives the consumer the impression that it is somehow in the same class as a Liberty, GC, or a Wrangler. Don't get me wrong, I like the Patriot. I bought one. I just think there are a lot of misconceptions out there about this vehicle based on the "Jeep" brand. In my experiences, "misconceptions" can give a vehicle a bad reputation that it doesn't deserve. In my opinion so far, this vehicle deserves better than that. It is designed well and tops in it's class. You can't ask for better than that.

 

I'm with you on this

I'm with you on the people in the driving world not really knowing anything about driving at all. Don't get me wrong "Mrsensible" the Patriot is everything I expected to get when I dropped 20K on this baby. Mr first trip after getting it I took it out in freezing rain for 20 miles, sunny with a high of 10 ferh, and the end included pushing through 6-8 in of fresh powder then topping if off with a muddy frozen slosh of a road for my final destination. Talk about putting my faith in the Jeep brand, especially after the first jeep I ever drove was a 99' Wrangler, and comparatively the Pat handled better on both the dry pavement and a lot better in the snow. This car has earned a firm spot in my vehicle lineup for many years to come. I guess it's more of a pipe-dream to get a low gear so I can take it places it normally wouldn't go, and I already have. Read my thread

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2563

and you'll know why I think a "granny" gear is a fabulous option for the general off-roader, sure it's not a practical option for the everyday driver sipping their $4 Coffee with chocolate flavor bought from a place that seems more outrageous then an oil company asking $3.50 for a gallon of fuel. Jeep knows there aren't enough real drivers out there for something like this thus it's not going to be profitable for them to build it, but hey, what happened to the real drivers out there looking for a company to do something like this, come on Jeep, Make a new Trail.

 

If you want "TRUE" 4wd capability you have to go up a class in my opinion to something like a Liberty.[/B]


Chrysler certainly (with the exception of the "Trail Rated" option) hasn't said anything to the contrary, but the "Jeep" brand in itself gives the consumer the impression that it is somehow in the same class as a Liberty, GC, or a Wrangler. Don't get me wrong, I like the Patriot. I bought one. I just think there are a lot of misconceptions out there about this vehicle based on the "Jeep" brand. In my experiences, "misconceptions" can give a vehicle a bad reputation that it doesn't deserve. In my opinion so far, this vehicle deserves better than that. It is designed well and tops in it's class. You can't ask for better than that.

I agree with what you said.! Also I felt in the Trap about the misconceptions. Thus way I turned down my order, just yesterday

I had to do it, I felt the Patriot can not make it at Poison MT. in BC Canada.
the angle of the hill is 38 degree aproxi 400 Mt high ( 1300Ft +/- ). I have a Nissan Frontier crew cab 4x4, w/3.3Lt engine 179 Horse power with 180 torque pound, 2" higher than the stock & 30" tires vs 255 and realized the Patriot wont make it going up hill, I will post some pics, so you guys will have some ideas how looks a hill of 38 degree. to go up hill I had to use 4low gear in first gear at 2100rpm, some times I had to push to 2800rpm ! with 3 people including my self plus my tool box and 3/4 full of gas in my truck tank (75 Litres ) (21 gallons +/- ), the rest of the gears I lefted at the bottom hill, to avoid weight.


I like the Patriot, too Mrsensible, but after 28 years driving on off road, Jeep Patriot need some improvement, if would be use for medium to hard road, need more payload extra 300 pounds?, more torque 180 ~ 190 may be, and little bit higher 1" ~ 2" ,I think the 2.4 Lt engine is good
enough. :smiley_thumbs_up: I asking too much??


PS: I ordered CVTL2, with an off road pack.. Cost: 25K Canadian $ + tax, too much money to find out the car would not make it in certain condition. I got the phone call yesterday from the dealer and I turned down , today I will get my deposit back.

Meanwhile I will still driving my white elephant Nissan truck.

 

I agree with what you said.! Also I felt in the Trap about the misconceptions. Thus way I turned down my order, just yesterday

I had to do it, I felt the Patriot can not make it at Poison MT. in BC Canada.
the angle of the hill is 38 degree aproxi 400 Mt high ( 1300Ft +/- ). I have a Nissan Frontier crew cab 4x4, w/3.3Lt engine 179 Horse power with 180 torque pound, 2" higher than the stock & 30" tires vs 255 and realized the Patriot wont make it going up hill, .

Havent seen too any frontiers on the trails by me, so dont know how capable they are, take you word for it, see you have had your fun in it,

here in US 4x4 frontier crew cab starts at $25K
and may have been a while since your frontier,
i now think base engine in frontier is like 250 hp
at $25K there are other 4x4 i would consider,
whether its a liberty, X, or something else,

equivelant patriot with FDII is about $20K,
different price point to begin with,
for $20K not many 4x4's in that category,

as for the type of off roading you intend to do,
agree patriot may not be the best choice,

for the type of offroading i intend to do,
should suit me fine,

 

Terasec, My Nissan frontier is from year 2000, with out the turbo, thus way is 179 horse power.

Cost me in that time 28K canadian$ + Tax, no electric windows, fabric seats, tape player and no gizmos, as you see is not the full edition, I want it simple just for off roading, I'm a rock hunter ( minerals ) so I'm not looking troubles on the road, but sometimes you get conditions on the road that you expect the truck will respond whit out any problems, What I can see in the Patriot is you have to study the road before you venture deeple and with some company ( other truck ) just in case.


You are right about the price, how some people say : you get what you pay.
For the price of the Patriot not bad at all. But has those small downside.


Cheers.

 

So the have a 5 spped version in the Euro but not here. Why couldn't they drop a 5 speed with a granny gear here in the Americas? Looks like I need to head East for the 6 speed and modify it myself.

 

Is there no way to change the ring/pinion in the diffs with a Patriot...with a manual reanny? That would be much easier and more efficient.

 

Wish I knew that answer, I don't know much about messin with the tranny, but I can get you 34 MPG is a 5 Spd Patriot, if your willing to put a fogger on it, I did, and if I can get this car to run a little hotter, maybe up to 193 degrees I might be able to gt it up to 38 MPG.

 

A Fogger ???? wazzatt?

 

It would be kewl if the people with the new Auto Stick could program in the ratios...

 

But still the programed ratios are limited by the overall sizes of the two CVT pulleys.

The rear gear in the patroit looks tiny - I'd imagine getting new gear sets for that would be really, really hard.

 

A fogger is attached to your radiator hose, well actually it's put into a splice that you make in the hose and radiator coolant is sent into the device then back out into the original hose. The kicker is the device takes your fuel line into the top and sent into the fogger or cylinder through a brass tube inside the fogger heating your fuel to the temp of your coolant. With the PAT that ranges from 182 degrees on the highway to 200 degrees in traffic and stop and go. When the fuel is heated to this temperature it turns almost into a "fog" and thus when sent into the injectors the computer senses it doesn't need as much because your getting the same power with less fuel.

To put it very simply, the combustion inside that cylinder is not only cleaner and much more complete, but smoother and much more efficient because the fuel is completely used. I'll take a few pics of mine, but man do I want a Diesel Patriot 6 speed with a low low low gear, top speed for the gear maybe 5 MPH

 

A fogger is attached to your radiator hose, well actually it's put into a splice that you make in the hose and radiator coolant is sent into the device then back out into the original hose. The kicker is the device takes your fuel line into the top and sent into the fogger or cylinder through a brass tube inside the fogger heating your fuel to the temp of your coolant. With the PAT that ranges from 182 degrees on the highway to 200 degrees in traffic and stop and go. When the fuel is heated to this temperature it turns almost into a "fog" and thus when sent into the injectors the computer senses it doesn't need as much because your getting the same power with less fuel.

To put it very simply, the combustion inside that cylinder is not only cleaner and much more complete, but smoother and much more efficient because the fuel is completely used. I'll take a few pics of mine.

Cannot wait to see pics of your fogger. :smiley_thumbs_up:
Where did you get your fogger? Sounds like you know your stuff!

 

I am going to show my ignorance about foggers, but here goes anyway...
is it a fire hazzard?
is it hard to install?
how much?
oh yeah, everyone asks this one, your opinion on the warranty of the engine?
thanks

 

If you want to know a bit more on the fogger and how it helps increse the mileage and life of your engine check out the website for the guys who make it.

http://www.brightgreen.us/products/

Oh, and on a side note Brett, no it doesn't turn the fuel into a mist/fog, it expands it because the fuel is heated to 200 degrees and thus makes more use of the fuel going into the injestors. You seem like the kind of guy who would be interested in this guys articles, http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/ he's a fuel engineer freak and is retired, so he has all day to mess around with fuel economy, and trust me he does. Here's his site.....enjoy. For all the non-technical gurus out there, just take a look at the guys who make the fogger, it's very intereseting stuff....why didn't I think of that:doh:

 

I am an engineer... and this guy is full of doublespeak. He does talk of reducing particle size through vaporization, although his explaination makes no technical sense. You can't make "more use of the fuel" without changing the engine cycle process.

Most internal combustion engines reject at least 1-1.5 times the amount of power they generate in waste heat into the air. You get all of the energy from the fuel burn in your engine - that's the waste heat.

From http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/fogger.htm

Description of a True Fuel Fog

A fuel Fog condition results when the fuel fragments in a mixture of air and fuel become the smallest size possible for the physical conditions present. Thus fuel fragments with BrightGreen™ products approach the size of a few molecules instead of millions of molecules lumped together in a ball. A companion condition for the small size of the fuel fragments is an enormous population density of fuel particles per cubic centimeter. The product of population and size is approximately constant. This means when one goes up, the other goes down. The creation of a genuine Fog gives the submicron fuel fragments in the combustion chamber the longest possible mean-free-path and thus a higher average velocity of motion. This translates into many more good collisions between oxygen and fuel molecules to release increased heat (better Thermal Efficiency) and prevent unburned fuel from going out the exhaust. The Fog defeats surface tension and cohesion effects from cold--which would lower mileage.

Fog conditions may be generated despite cold if we use a vacuum. Fog may be created with heat. The MAX Warmer is an example of the latter. Our Squirter-Inducer is an example of the former. The MAX Warmer works well with diesel engines as well as with gasoline engines. The constant coolant temperature around 200 degrees controls how warm the fuel gets and thus how well the fuel vaporizes into the desired Fog condition to produce excellent mileage.
​

 

Jeephigh 11,

Is it true that you currently attain 34 mpg hwy and 28 mpg city with the fogger device installed? So is it safe to say that prior to getting fogger device installed that you were averaging 29 mpg hwy and 25 city? Is it a safe assumption that you are merely pointing out another way to save money on fuel?

I for one, do not believe everything I hear, but... I do like to confirm things for myself.


BTW what size warmer did you purchase from Brightgreen? Your testimonial brings hope to this 4X4 25E driver.

 

My engine is making more use of the fuel it get's and it's proven in the MPG's. My best MPG was 31 and all highway, my best in town was 26.3. With the fogger I've gained 3-4 more MPG's on both Hwy and City. I know my tank didn't increase in size, the fuel wasn't super rated, and I used the same station and pump every time. The results speak for themselves, no matter how many numbers you crunch, or how hard you try to disprove it, my Pat got better mileage with this device that has no moving parts, it just sits there and sends super heated fuel into the injectors and allows the engine to burn a more clean burn and use less fuel to achieve the same desired outcome.

I've noticed I don't have to press the pedal down as much to achieve the desired speed on acceleration. If that's not proof enough, then I don't know what is.

I took a picture of the fogger on the Pat. Check it out.

The size of the fuel fogger is the same size of the interior diameter of the radiator hose. I believe it's 1 1/2 in. approx. The upper radiator hose is where it goes, for that is where the hot water/coolant exits the engine.

If that photo doesn't load above, go to the site I have them on.

http://www.valmoritz.com/fogger.html

 

My engine is making more use of the fuel it get's and it's proven in the MPG's. My best MPG was 31 and all highway, my best in town was 26.3. With the fogger I've gained 3-4 more MPG's on both Hwy and City. The size of the fuel fogger is the same size of the interior diameter of the radiator hose. I believe it's 1 1/2 in. approx. The upper radiator hose is where it goes, for that is where the hot water/coolant exits the engine.

If that photo doesn't load above, go to the site I have them on.

http://www.valmoritz.com/fogger.html

Thanks for the info, I may very well give it a try. :smiley_thumbs_up:

 

brndnlee2074, I hope you do try it out, let me mess with this new thing from brightgreen, the FeverBuster as they call it. The head guy over there, Lou, said I need to put this on the O2 sensor to get the most out of the fogger, and I didn't think I was going to need this because I have a new car and the computer is suppose to configure itself to compensate for the better MPG, turns out computers aren't that smart, and will actually hurt my mileage because the computer thinks the car is running to lean on the fuel to air mixture ratio. The computer is sending more fuel into the engine because the O2 sensor is telling the computer that it's too lean. So in fact the car is using more fuel then it actually needs because the car is running cleaner. If this works I could see 37-40 MPG hwy, which is what I was expecting. I'll keep you posted on this, and if this works the way it suppose to, I would most defiantly hookup a fogger and get the most out of every gallon.

 

What you want is the 2.0-liter turbo diesel engine, paired with the six-speed manual transaxle ... nearly the same torque as the 4.0 six. Unfortunately, made in the usa, but available outside North America.

 

I know, what's the problem with this picture? Made in America, but not for Americans.