[Davetac1]

Has anyone had any experience with changing,checking,or filling the trans on one of these new transmissions???? Thank you!! Dave!!!

 

[RossoRacer]

They're so new, I don't think anybody's had to worry about changing anything transmission-related yet. No reason to have that tranny in a Patriot anyways, lol.

 

[Davetac1]

I agree.However,when a stealership doesn't do the proper inservice inspection when they sell you a new vehicle, [most of em do NOT] and even though it may seem to operate correctly,doesn't mean that they actually performed that inspection or the vehicle is actually performing like it's supposed to.And then they tell ya, when ya do bring it back for its' first maintenance,they found all these things wrong,and stick ya with a big bill.When I checked mine today,[I had to buy a special tool similar to a dip stick only a lot smaller in size] I ended up adding close to a quart of ATF to the trans ,hence the reason I asked if anyone has had any experience with these six speed units!!

Anyways,thank you for the come back!!!

 

[miketmx]

I got my dealer to do the TCM reflash according to the TSB and now it definitely shifts smoother than before and it no longer goes into autostick mode accidentally.

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295178

 

[Davetac1]

Has anyone had any experience with changing,checking,or filling the trans on one of these new transmissions???? Thank you!! Dave!!!

Here's alittle update on my question! Since no one here seemed to have any input on this new six speed transaxle system,I did some more research on it and this is what I learned.

First: This unit is NOT A CVT,it is a six speed transaxle.It uses ATF+4,which is synthethic trans oil.It doesn't have to be Chrysler specific,as long as it's ATF+4.

Second: The motor has to be up to operating temperature,at idle,and in park when checking the level.And with the E brake should be on for safety reasons

Third:You'll need a tool [Mopar part#CY10323A or equivilent which cost around 35 bucks,but well worth it] which is kinda like a dip stick,but round and heavier in construction with numbers,which are in 10MM increments,starting with 10 at the bottom and running up to 130 at the top.The tool itself is 6 1/2 inches long with a heavy round knob on the top which just sets on top of a fill hole [the fill hole plug uses a 15/16 socket with a long extension to break it free, then unscrewing it with your fingers and do NOT over tighten it when you put it back in place]. The plug for the fill/check point is located on the driver's side of the vehicle at the back left side of the motor and on the top of the transaxle.It is accessed from the front of the vehicle.

Fourth:With the engine idling and up to operating temp,the level should be around the 25MM mark,or approximately 1 inch from the bottom of the tool/dip stick.Hence with the motor off,the level should be approximately 1 inch above that 25MM mark on the stick.

Fifth: You'll need a long funnel with a tapered end to fit into that fill hole so as NOT to make a mess,pouring the ATF into the trans instead of all over it and or on the floor.lol

My trans was down alittle over 2 qts. which is a lot [I can't believe the trans wasn't damaged] but now shifts up and down a lot better.In my research,I read about a couple guys losing the trans due to over heating.Gee!! I wonder why??I guess the stealer didn't get the memo about checking the level.

And last buy not least,the stealership I bought this vehicle from will hear about this and I may even write a nasty gram to Chrysler about it.Ya see,when any new vehicle is delivered,it's supposed to get an inservice inspection,one of those things inspected being the oil and water levels because during transport,the factory leaves the levels low so they don't drip onto the vehicle below them on the car carrier used to deliver em to the dealerships.Apparently,and again,I guess most stealerships did NOT get that memo.GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! Dave!!!

 

[Longshot270]

Do you have a link for that part? I tried mopar, ebay, rock auto, amazon, google...nothing for that part number. I refuse to go to the stealership after they tried charging me $10+ shipping for two $0.20 cent bolts.

 

[wpeck2]

Talking about a stealership, when I bought my '07 Pat the dealer told me that they could
install a "cabin filtration system" for $150. I said no and found out about the filter
behind the glove box on this forum. I put in a after market filter and saved that money.
The dealer is now out of business. Wonder why?

 

[Davetac1]

Do you have a link for that part? I tried mopar, ebay, rock auto, amazon, google...nothing for that part number. I refuse to go to the stealership after they tried charging me $10+ shipping for two $0.20 cent bolts.

Since I've had this tool for a couple months now,I don't remember just where I bought it,but it was on line.When and if I can find it again,I'll post it for ya,fair enough??? I did post the part number in my post about the job.So try punchin that number in on line and see where it takes ya.I think that's how I found mine.And I think you'll find the price for this tool is all over the place!!But as long as it's the number I posted,you'll be good to go.:smiley_thumbs_up::smiley_thumbs_up: Dave!!

 

[Davetac1]

Here's alittle update on my question! Since no one here seemed to have any input on this new six speed transaxle system,I did some more research on it and this is what I learned.

First: This unit is NOT A CVT,it is a six speed transaxle.It uses ATF+4,which is synthethic trans oil.It doesn't have to be Chrysler specific,as long as it's ATF+4.

Second: The motor has to be up to operating temperature,at idle,and in park when checking the level.And with the E brake should be on for safety reasons

Third:You'll need a tool [Mopar part#CY10323A or equivilent which cost around 35 bucks,but well worth it] which is kinda like a dip stick,but round and heavier in construction with numbers,which are in 10MM increments,starting with 10 at the bottom and running up to 130 at the top.The tool itself is 6 1/2 inches long with a heavy round knob on the top which just sets on top of a fill hole [the fill hole plug uses a 15/16 socket with a long extension to break it free, then unscrewing it with your fingers and do NOT over tighten it when you put it back in place]. The plug for the fill/check point is located on the driver's side of the vehicle at the back left side of the motor and on the top of the transaxle.It is accessed from the front of the vehicle.

Fourth:With the engine idling and up to operating temp,the level should be around the 25MM mark,or approximately 1 inch from the bottom of the tool/dip stick.Hence with the motor off,the level should be approximately 1 inch above that 25MM mark on the stick.

Fifth: You'll need a long funnel with a tapered end to fit into that fill hole so as NOT to make a mess,pouring the ATF into the trans instead of all over it and or on the floor.lol

My trans was down alittle over 2 qts. which is a lot [I can't believe the trans wasn't damaged] but now shifts up and down a lot better.In my research,I read about a couple guys losing the trans due to over heating.Gee!! I wonder why??I guess the stealer didn't get the memo about checking the level.

And last buy not least,the stealership I bought this vehicle from will hear about this and I may even write a nasty gram to Chrysler about it.Ya see,when any new vehicle is delivered,it's supposed to get an inservice inspection,one of those things inspected being the oil and water levels because during transport,the factory leaves the levels low so they don't drip onto the vehicle below them on the car carrier used to deliver em to the dealerships.Apparently,and again,I guess most stealerships did NOT get that memo.GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! Dave!!!

I just found it on line AND for 24 bucks.[I got screwed,I paid 35 bucks for mine]Go to Google and punch in Essential tool and service equipment and the tool number CY10323A.that should bring ya right to it. OK??? :smiley_thumbs_up::smiley_thumbs_up

 

[CraveSingletrack]

No reason to have that tranny in a Patriot anyways, lol.

This is how I feel about the CVT...

 

[Davetac1]

Go to google and punch in Essential tools and equipment.They show a picture,the part number [CY10323A] and,for only 24 bucks! I paid 35 for mine.DUH!!! So there ya go! Dave!!!

 

[Longshot270]

Gotcha, I was missing the essential tool part and was only getting this thread

Thanks! :smiley_thumbs_up:

 

[Treegrower]

- I have better luck Googling the OEM part number 10323A without the "CY":

https://mopar.snapon.com/item-detail.aspx?itemid=5240017&type=tools ....plus many other sources.


- The correct fluid for these trannies is ATF SP-4, NOT ATF+4.

But, there is evidence that the ATF SP-4 has been superceded by ATF SP-4 M

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...dXgZwJEUJENXb4Ghu2mSinv52%2FQ%3D&usg=AFQjCNHBx_9-iRFC1FmHfi9YujMRan6LbQ&cad=rja


- Finally, you state that the fluid level should read 25 mm at "operating temperature".

Here's the fluid level table from the factory service manual:

TEMP°C(F) MIN LEVEL NOMINAL LEVEL MAX LEVEL

50° (122f) ... 21 mm... 26 mm...... 31.5 mm

55°(131F).... 23 mm.... 27.5 mm... 33 mm

60°(140F).... 25 mm.... 30 mm..... 34 mm

65°(149F).... 27 mm.... 31 mm..... 35.5 mm

70°(158F).... 28.5 mm.. 33 mm.... 36.5 mm

75°(167F).... 30 mm.... 35 mm.... 38 mm

80°(176F)... 31.5 mm... 36 mm.... 39 mm

85°(185F)... 32.5 mm... 37 mm.... 40 mm

90°(194F)... 34 mm..... 38 mm.... 41.5 mm

Besides the drain plug, there are two other ports on the the tranny, one for the dipstick level check and the other for filling. It's important to not mix the two up. The vehicle should be level during the measurement.


Here's a pic of the OEM dipstick:

 

[Davetac1]

The tool shown in the picture is exactly what I have.Since I do not have a SM I can't argue numbers as mine may or maynot be correct ,but the info I posted was from research done on line when searching for the tool.But the bottom line is,you need to have atleast a minimal amount of ATF in the trans otherwise ,it will self destruct.Any ATF is better then no,or not enough, ATF.

Regarding the two fill holes you mentioned: I know about one[the one I mentioned]but where is the other one????? I do NOT have an SM,YET!!!

And the oil you mentioned,I believe is for the the CVT unit and not the six speed,auto stick unit.When I researched this unit,that's where I got that info on the ATF+4.Infact the OM states it for the auto stick,but I think they referred to it as SP 4 or SPI-4 OR equivilent! I'll have to look in my OM again.

Correction!! After just rechecking my OM this morning,it clearly states to use CVTF+4 in the CVT units, and SP-IV ,or equivilent [Mopar ATF-4, stamped right on the container which I bought directly from Chrysler] in the six speed auto stick units.So I don't know what to tell ya.I'm only goin by what I read in the OM and what Chrysler sold me!!

 

[Davetac1]

- I have better luck Googling the OEM part number 10323A without the "CY":

https://mopar.snapon.com/item-detail.aspx?itemid=5240017&type=tools ....plus many other sources.


- The correct fluid for these trannies is ATF SP-4, NOT ATF+4.

But, there is evidence that the ATF SP-4 has been superceded by ATF SP-4 M

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...dXgZwJEUJENXb4Ghu2mSinv52%2FQ%3D&usg=AFQjCNHBx_9-iRFC1FmHfi9YujMRan6LbQ&cad=rja


- Finally, you state that the fluid level should read 25 mm at "operating temperature".

Here's the fluid level table from the factory service manual:

TEMP°C(F) MIN LEVEL NOMINAL LEVEL MAX LEVEL

50° (122f) ... 21 mm... 26 mm...... 31.5 mm

55°(131F).... 23 mm.... 27.5 mm... 33 mm

60°(140F).... 25 mm.... 30 mm..... 34 mm

65°(149F).... 27 mm.... 31 mm..... 35.5 mm

70°(158F).... 28.5 mm.. 33 mm.... 36.5 mm

75°(167F).... 30 mm.... 35 mm.... 38 mm

80°(176F)... 31.5 mm... 36 mm.... 39 mm

85°(185F)... 32.5 mm... 37 mm.... 40 mm

90°(194F)... 34 mm..... 38 mm.... 41.5 mm

Besides the drain plug, there are two other ports on the the tranny, one for the dipstick level check and the other for filling. It's important to not mix the two up. The vehicle should be level during the measurement.


Here's a pic of the OEM dipstick:

That is good info.Thank you!!! :smiley_thumbs_up:

When I added ATF to my vehicle and the tool to arrive at the 25mm level,the temp in my shop,believe it or not,lol ,was actually 50*.So I guess I got it right.lol But remember,there was only a minimal amount of ATF in my trans "at best" when I first checked it.[zero reading on the tool] The stealer obviously ,didn't get the memo about checking the ATF level,atleast on mine.SHAME ON THEM!!!

 

[Treegrower]

Correction!! After just rechecking my OM this morning,it clearly states to use CVTF+4 in the CVT units, and SP-IV ,or equivilent [Mopar ATF-4, stamped right on the container which I bought directly from Chrysler] in the six speed auto stick units.So I don't know what to tell ya.I'm only goin by what I read in the OM and what Chrysler sold me!!

We are all here to share and learn. All these "4's" could lead to confusion.

I have yet to see "MOPAR ATF-4" but I did read on another forum of somebody buying Hyundai Type 4, which was claimed as being SP-4 or SP-IV.

Just to reiterate:

CVT's use CVTF+4:

Many Chrysler trannies use ATF+4 (both automatic and manual):

The Patriot 6 speed auto stick unit (Hyundai Powertec) uses SP-4,SP-IV, and as pointed out above, maybe the new number is SP-4M. It is VERY expensive at the moment....about $15+ per quart. It is available in aftermarket versions and Hyundai/Kia versions.

I understand that you found your transmission fluid to be very low. My points above were to make sure everyone knows that the fluid level is very sensitive to temperature differences and other factors.

Also, that there are 2 "fill" ports. Actually, the one port is to be used for the dipstick measurement and the other port is for filling. I don't know why the dipstick port is not recommended for filling.

Using the wrong port, an unlevel vehicle, or wrong temperature could cause an incorrect reading. An over filled tranny can be harmful also. Older trannies overfilled would cause fluid foaming and lubrication damage. Not sure about this unit.

It's a myth that these are sealed, filled-for-life units and not DIY serviceable. I will be attempting my first fluid change in about 10,000 miles. The tranny filters in this unit are only serviceable by opening up the unit (rebuild/repair).

 

[Davetac1]

I originally bought a container of that CVTF+4 shown above [80 bucks, ouch] for the CVT unit which is what I thought was in the wife's new car cause that's what the salesmen told us when we bought it.But after rereading the OM,I then realized that her car had the six speed auto stick.[if a vehicle has paddles on the steering wheel and or an auto stick like the Patriot has,it is NOT a CVT unit which I have now learned.DUH!!! Hence I bought a container of the ATF+4 [also shown above] and used that.And my trans wasn't just low, I couldn't get ANY READING "PERIOD" on the stick,hot or cold.It actually took 3 qts to get a reading on the tool.Anyways,it now shifts a lot better.But had the STEALERSHIP done the inservice like they're supposed to do,this would NOT have happened. But I have learned somethin new and i thank you.:smiley_thumbs_up: Dave!!!

 

[griff]

I originally bought a container of that CVTF+4 shown above [80 bucks, ouch] for the CVT unit which is what I thought was in the wife's new car cause that's what the salesmen told us when we bought it.But after rereading the OM,I then realized that her car had the six speed auto stick.[if a vehicle has paddles on the steering wheel and or an auto stick like the Patriot has,it is NOT a CVT unit which I have now learned.DUH!!! Hence I bought a container of the ATF+4 [also shown above] and used that.And my trans wasn't just low, I couldn't get ANY READING "PERIOD" on the stick,hot or cold.It actually took 3 qts to get a reading on the tool.Anyways,it now shifts a lot better.But had the STEALERSHIP done the inservice like they're supposed to do,this would NOT have happened. But I have learned somethin new and i thank you.:smiley_thumbs_up: Dave!!!

or an auto stick like the Patriot has,it is NOT a CVT

Sorry, the CVT's also have the autostick shift......pretend gears, so to speak. But I'd rather have your 6 speed in my 2012!

Maybe they'll take the CVT fluid back?

 

[Treegrower]

I originally bought a container of that CVTF+4 shown above [80 bucks, ouch] for the CVT unit which is what I thought was in the wife's new car cause that's what the salesmen told us when we bought it.But after rereading the OM,I then realized that her car had the six speed auto stick.[if a vehicle has paddles on the steering wheel and or an auto stick like the Patriot has,it is NOT a CVT unit which I have now learned.DUH!!! Hence I bought a container of the ATF+4 [also shown above] and used that.And my trans wasn't just low, I couldn't get ANY READING "PERIOD" on the stick,hot or cold.It actually took 3 qts to get a reading on the tool.Anyways,it now shifts a lot better.But had the STEALERSHIP done the inservice like they're supposed to do,this would NOT have happened. But I have learned somethin new and i thank you.:smiley_thumbs_up: Dave!!!

I'm still a bit confused. You returned the wrong CVTF+4 fluid and replaced it with the WRONG ATF+4 ?????

This chart below shows how the new generation of transmission fluids (on the left) are much lower viscosity than the previous ones. Compare ATF+4 to the SP-4 (SP-IV)....big difference.

 

[Davetac1]

Negative!! I didn't return anything.I still have both and will use em.For over 35 years,I maintained a fleet of over 100 vehicles,all makes,models,and years of cars, trucks,and auxiliary equipment.We were given a 55 gallon drum of whatever ATF to use and we NEVER lost a single transmission due to the wrong type,viscosity,or brand of ATF.Now granted,I've been retired now for 14 years[although I still do it,just not like i used to] and I know things have changed,but the principles have NOT.If you change your fluids at a scheduled interval,and i don't mean every 100,000 miles whether it needs it or not,lol,you'd be surprised at how long things will last,function satisfactorily,and without major failures.But the decision is entirely up to the individual.