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Specifically for those who have had trouble off-road....

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#21 ·
I shopped the 08 Liberty, 08 GV and 08 Patriot FDII before buying the Patriot. I was leaning toward the GV as it had a V-6 and regular 5-speed a/t but all the Suzuki dealers around here are setup to sell to the high risk loan set and come with the associated garbage ethics (not that the CDJ dealers around here are any better). The fuel economy and what I perceive will be a better resale value persuaded me to buy the Patriot. The Patriot also is fully capable of going where I want to and need to go off road.




unclejjg said:
Would any of you, in retrospect, trade your Patriot for a Grand Vitara given:

-the relative in price.
-the relative gas mileage. (17/21)


The Grand Vitara w/a true transfer case (4hi, 4lock, N, 4lo) and a 185hp/184 torque motor can be had for $21, 694.00 base (with manual) up to $26,394.00 for a luxury model with automatic (no other options selected).

Also, keep in mind that the new 3.2L V6 (244hp) is coming out and has reportedly better gas mileage than the old 2.7L V6....so lets change the argument and say the numbers are now 18/22...any takers?

Visit Post #9 for pics of GV offroad.
Click to expand...
 
#22 ·
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#23 ·
Hay just click and it works!
 
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Discussion starter · #26 ·
DJ XS said:
Unclejjg, you seem to be a very, very ,very well informed person. It is obvious you have done your homework and then some. So much so that you have waited......waited........and ............waited for you to make an informed decision. In reading your "main question", would I "sacrifice a few gallons of gas for a true transfer case and a stronger engine" ; the answer is no. I dont know what your current mpg is with your blazer, but I have to wonder, is it better than what you would get with a Patriot, or GV? Are you maybe........ losing a game that you have not yet begun? Is it possible that you can already have what you want without having to wait more? Granted, ultimately it is your decision........make it already! Sometimes you have to go with what you feel, not with what you know. You may end up choosing the GV, but what if once you start using it you dont like it? I am not saying it cant happen, but it can and visa versa with the Patriot.

I AM an FDII owner.
Click to expand...

You sir, may have it the nail on the head. I'll admit, I'm the type of person who will wait for the rumor of bigger and better even if it is not guaranteed to be produced. Perhaps it is a bit silly.

On a side, the Blazer is getting about 17 mpg.
 
#27 ·
unclejjg I checked through several of your posts and the general idea I get is you do not really like jeeps as you do a lot to point out other vehicles and how they are better than jeeps. Did you get burned by a jeep dealer or what?
 
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#28 · (Edited)
those aren't stock GV's!

But I've been here many times with absolutely no problem with the FDII, other than my hitch mounted bike rack drags through exiting the waterbar. Without the bike rack, no issue at all.

Image
 
#30 ·
Aside from this photo:

Image



It pretty obvious that the rest of those are not stock. I don't think the average GV owner would even attempt a quarter of that stuff.
 
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Discussion starter · #31 · (Edited)
polished_heckler said:
I'm interested to see some pics of your Blazer offroading adventures uncle.
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My Blazer makes it up the main trail at my cottage fine. The side trails are likely not possible....some of them I can't even bring our Polaris Ranger on.

At the same time, I've not had a problem getting up the steep dirt road to my camp, and so I take interest when there people are having trouble with the Patriot.

I'll see if I can get pics this weekend.
 
#32 · (Edited)
unclejjg said:
So would you feel comfortable, after having seen what Dawson got stuck on, sending your Patriot through this:
Click to expand...
Pics are blocked from my work, but if they are from that GV thread, no problem taking either my stock Compass or a lifted/overtired one on that stuff.

What Dawson got stuck on (from the Youtube Vid) was a limitation of power. Either the CVT, ESP or just not enough torque to move it. The 5-spd transfers more power to the ground than the CVT and one can slip the clutch until it breaks at 5000rpm if one needs more torque, unlike a CVT/auto. I have only tested my FDI for 2/3-wheeled cases and have always been able to make forward progress.

Is there any reason why you cannot keep the Blazer and a new vehcile? Just take the Blazer for cottage trips and save the fuel for every day driving. If that works out, then a 2WD Pat might be enough for best FE, or even (gasp!) a sedan.
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
wwworth said:
unclejjg I checked through several of your posts and the general idea I get is you do not really like jeeps as you do a lot to point out other vehicles and how they are better than jeeps. Did you get burned by a jeep dealer or what?
Click to expand...
Not true. I do like Jeeps, when compared to other vehicles available. On the other hand, I am not a "its a jeep thing" person. I used to have a Grand Cherokee, and I loved the old Cherokees.

To me, there isn't a vehicle available that I really feel drawn to. At first, I thought the Patriot was going to be it, and so I've followed it since it was a concept in Frankfurt.

I love the Wrangler, but it isn't practical. The gas mileage is horrible, and I don't think part-time 4WD is useful to the everyday driver.

The gas mileage of the Liberty is hardly better than the Wrangler, yet it offers full-time 4WD which is a plus. On the other hand, its capability does not compare and the inside leaves no room for the drivers legs.

The Patriot has a great interior (in terms of size), looks pretty good, and has better gas mileage, but it suffers from lack of power and capability (though better than competitors).

Do I like Jeeps, yes, I do. But, until they make something that doesn't require a need to settle for x to get y, I will continue to look at other vehicles.

My bringing those vehicles to the attention of people on this board isn't a way of putting the Patriot down, its a way of using people's opinion (who own the vehicle) to make a comparison.

That is why I made the Patriot off-road pics post. To judge what the vehicle could do. I wouldn't expect anyone to take their brand new vehicle off-road, but if they did, I was hoping to see what they encountered and how the vehicle faired. In truth, as you will note from the initial post, I was focusing on the FDII Patriot.

The response was monsterous...unfortunately, it is mostly pictures of FDI Patriots sitting on snow, or with nice scenery in the background, or on grass. Not exactly what I had in mind, but the fact that this is all we are seeing compared to what is available with a vehicle like the Grand Vitara, logically points to the fact that people aren't using these vehicles in the same way. In this thread, I wanted to see if that is true, and why?
 
#34 ·
I would have to agree with Uncle

unclejjg said:
Not true. I do like Jeeps, when compared to other vehicles available. On the other hand, I am not a "its a jeep thing" person. I used to have a Grand Cherokee, and I loved the old Cherokees.

To me, there isn't a vehicle available that I really feel drawn to. At first, I thought the Patriot was going to be it, and so I've followed it since it was a concept in Frankfurt.

I love the Wrangler, but it isn't practical. The gas mileage is horrible, and I don't think part-time 4WD is useful to the everyday driver.

The gas mileage of the Liberty is hardly better than the Wrangler, yet it offers full-time 4WD which is a plus. On the other hand, its capability does not compare and the inside leaves no room for the drivers legs.

The Patriot has a great interior (in terms of size), looks pretty good, and has better gas mileage, but it suffers from lack of power and capability (though better than competitors).

Do I like Jeeps, yes, I do. But, until they make something that doesn't require a need to settle for x to get y, I will continue to look at other vehicles.

My bringing those vehicles to the attention of people on this board isn't a way of putting the Patriot down, its a way of using people's opinion (who own the vehicle) to make a comparison.

That is why I made the Patriot off-road pics post. To judge what the vehicle could do. I wouldn't expect anyone to take their brand new vehicle off-road, but if they did, I was hoping to see what they encountered and how the vehicle faired. In truth, as you will note from the initial post, I was focusing on the FDII Patriot.

The response was monsterous...unfortunately, it is mostly pictures of FDI Patriots sitting on snow, or with nice scenery in the background, or on grass. Not exactly what I had in mind, but the fact that this is all we are seeing compared to what is available with a vehicle like the Grand Vitara, logically points to the fact that people aren't using these vehicles in the same way. In this thread, I wanted to see if that is true, and why?
Click to expand...
on most points,
If we didnt like the jeep we wouldnt still be here posting,
The Pat has its pros and cons,
nothing wrong with pointing out the cons, which i have done, especially when frustrated with something like the LACK of power!!!.
overall it is a great ride,
is it a True 4x4 that i expected from jeep? no.
but it is still probably the best AWD in its class and price range.
on the downside, beleive Jeep sacrificied too much in terms of quality and performance for MPG and comfort.
which the Pat is very quiet and comfortable.
but would gladly sacrifice comfort and MPG for more performance
at 173 hp, have had other jeeps with 170 hp, 6cyl Wranglers used to have 170 HP, and they had great performance,
 
#35 ·
I don't have any pics either as I was driving, but today I took her through some steep up and down grades all dirt/sand roads/two tracks. Can't tell you what it was specifically, as I was having fun not documenting a trip for this thread. I went down this washed out two track at a super steep angle on my way to Lake Superior when I got down I was on a very sandy atv play area with stumps and mud dips. I drove through it in "L" with the wheels locked and just normal at times with it in "D" without the wheels locked when appropriate, in many areas it was between 8 and 12 inches of sand. Then I put it back in "L" and climbed back up that steep two track. This wasn't the rubicon or anything but it was the most challenging area I have driven to date.The Jeep never even hinted at being stuck or not having power to get the job down so I don't know what others experiences are. It felt like I was just on a hilly paved road. Sorry, I know you are looking for downsides, but I had and have had zero problems with any failure to nagivate any terrian, that I felt the ground clearance could handle. Traction. The thing as others have mentioned is a mountain goat. It didn't sweat the washed out steep grade two track up or down. It was like it wasn't there. Not too mention it sucked up bumps like nothing.

I know nothing of the Grand Vitara. So can't compare...but from what you said you want it the FDII is way more than you need.

I have the CVT2L and like everyone else the 2.4L and that seems to be more than ample for this size vehicle.

I just don't understand what complaint about the power, traction, and CVT could be levied.

Stuck in the Winter? Didn't catch that one. I again, haven't had a hint of a problem in the snow or Ice and I live in the Keweenaw Peninusla of Michigan and we get 250 inches of snow or more annually.

Not that it matters and to each his own, but I wouldn't consider it because of how hideous I think the Grand Vitara looks.

Sounds like the Grand Vitara is quite a bit more expensive. With my CVT2L mine is pretty loaded at a hair over $23 not $26.

Obviously I am super biased, but for that price do you get:

Skid plates
Hill Descent Program
Anti-Roll Mitigation
Electronic Stability Program
Off Road Traction Control
Ability to ford 19 inches of water
Lifetime Drivetrain Warranty
5 Star Crash Test Rating
HD alternator
Engine Oil Cooler
Tow Hooks
Fog Lamps
Electronic information center that inclues fuel mileage, temp, compass, individual tire pressure etc.
Full Size spare with matching tire.

You probably do get some of those but it is important to compare apples to apples.

I guess go drive them both eh and let us know what you think.
 
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#36 ·
"The 5-spd transfers more power to the ground than the CVT and one can slip the clutch until it breaks at 5000rpm if one needs more torque, unlike a CVT/auto."

Another misleading statement. The CVT2L on the FDII creates the most torque out of the three configurations and since that is what we are trying to compare here a comparison between the 5-spd and the general CVT is misleading. Yes I am picky about the FDII, because so many numerous times on this forum you want to downplay its advantages and try to sweet talk your FDI manual into a more capable vehicle than it is.
 
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#37 ·
Kev, can we just agree to not respond to each other?

The 5-spd manual in every application I have every investigated is more efficient than the automatic, to the tune of 10-15% of power loss vs. 20-30% for automatic. Get two Patriots on a chassis dyno and compare how much power the same engine puts @ the wheels. That's what matters, power at the wheels. If the FDII were just as efficient as the FDI 5 spd, the EPA highway fuel eocnomy would be identical as final drive gearing is similar, yet they are not. Those are the facts. Nothing misleading about it. The FDII has better lowest/shorest gear than the 5-spd.

You make it sound like I think everyone shoudl have a manual when I actually am glad so many people don't. They is enough incompetent driving I deal with every day with the amount of automaticson the road.
 
#38 ·
EddieT said:
Aside from this photo:

Image



It pretty obvious that the rest of those are not stock. I don't think the average GV owner would even attempt a quarter of that stuff.
Click to expand...
Have you seen the average GV owner? haha... I'd say the average GV owner would try to ramp it off the golden gate bridge if they saw someone else do it!
 
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#39 ·
I think it still comes back to the same old point-

It depends on who you are and what you want. I don't think either is better than the other, it just depends on what you want out of your vehicle. Personally, I'm glad I got the FDII over the FDI because the on-road performance is better, plus I can hit up the logging trails and the 4wd farm, and it was worth the 1-2 mpg loss. at the same time, If your pumping in 15k into the car to make it a unique amazing 4x4, either one of them can be turned into the car of your dreams. if your main purpose for buying the car is purely 4x4ing, then I don't think either is a smart choice. If your main purpose is for offroad driving (farm driving, beach driving, etc.) I think the gas mileage and drivetrain system of the pat is better. Not to mention, I personally wouldnt like to have to deal with the stigma of owning a suzuki, but thats purely a personal thing.

I think they each fit a nitch, and instead of trying to decide which is this arbitrary term, "better", why don't we talk more about what YOU want a vehicle to do, how you use it, what your needs are, and the discuss what the best vehicle for you would be?
 
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#40 ·
Logging trails are a nightmare for me.....
I had a lifted YJ with 33's on it, and I swear I would break something everytime I started down a logging trail. Never got stuck or anything, but sticks had a funny way of ruining the trip. I tore the exhaust off the manifold several times, few flat tires.....no fun at all.
I'm talking skidder trails....not something a logging truck could even get into.
 
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