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Steep hill+5 speed+4 passengers+steep dirty, dirty rockey hill+ not enoguh speed=

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Stew

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Getting half way up and not going any further. I think the biggest thing was 4 passengers and not enough motor. It stalled and after that could get enough power to get moving again without stalling and had to back back down the hill, oh well, still fun, but REALLY makes me wish for the diesel option here because I WILL be trading because while the 2.4 is an alright motor I just think it is a mismatch for anything with a Jeep badge. Now, if had been in the Cherokee....... Still love my Patriot though :D
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
It's a FDI 5 speed and 1st gear was a no go. Made it half way though, I think with 2 less passengers maybe, but I don't think a quicker start would have been a good idea with all the loose and jagged rocks either. An FDII with the low range pwobably would have made it though LOL.
 
#4 ·
I have encountered similar (poser like) effects under similar circumstances... Some terrain you just can not floor it in first gear because even that is too fast for the terrain. The other complaint is the engines torque is too high in the rpm's to make it effective climber. I am very disappointed in My Patriot's offroad capability now that I have lifted it. I also understand that 245/65/17's made it worse for climbing. And yeah it looks cool, but over all its not worth the less gas mileage just to look cool. That's my opinion.
 
#5 ·
Loose rocks etc.? The first week I had my car I tried the same thing and it would not go up and kept stalling out. Did you try turning the esp OFF. Hold down the esp for 10 seconds until you hear the chime and it says esp off on the dash board. Do this at a standstill before you go up the hill. It worked for me! Good Luck!
 
#7 ·
Yeah, Stew. The problem with ESP is that it fights wheel spin by braking the slipping wheel and all other things. It can literally make your car grind to a halt on loose dirt hills where you would normally get wheel slippage. It's great for helping traction on snowy roads, but will be a bitch on off road loose dirt steep hills. So for off road steep work lock 4wd in and fully disable ESP. Let us know how you do with that combo.
 
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#8 ·
Personally I was on hard packed dirt and rock slabs... no wheel spin perceived or other wise, just a very steep high traction hill. I also tried it with ESP on, off and partially off as per shown in my YouTube video.
 
#9 ·
johnda said:
Yeah, Stew. The problem with ESP is that it fights wheel spin by braking the slipping wheel and all other things. It can literally make your car grind to a halt on loose dirt hills where you would normally get wheel slippage. It's great for helping traction on snowy roads, but will be a bitch on off road loose dirt steep hills. So for off road steep work lock 4wd in and fully disable ESP. Let us know how you do with that combo.
Click to expand...
The brake traction control system never disables (according to the manual anyways) even in "full off". If ESP is left on, there is an "RPM throttle limiting" feature that is designed to prevent too much wheel spinning.
 
#11 ·
i have noticed that the traction control is just a little to aggressive sometimes. Here in the cleveland area we have some of the worst roads on the planet and sometimes i can feel the traction control boggin down the engine when i hit a lot of bumps at once. obviously its just reacting like it supposed to but it just a little to aggressive. Usually i just turn ESP partially off when im on these roads so i dont have that loss of power.
 
#12 ·
I'm with Schoat, I disable engine torque reduction with Partial ESP even on dry roads. There isn't enough power with AWD to reduce torque when I decide to pull out in traffic.

If ESP was limiting torque, the light would have been flashing and message that says something like ESP active.
 
#13 ·
Living in Central New York, Theres a lot of hills I couldnt get up with my 5 spd GMC Sonoma. However, with the FDII with CVT, some guy I met that has the same car as me (same color, same vin, everything!) (ironic isnt it?) had 4 adults, suitcases and bags filling up the rear, and towing a 4000 lb boat, still managed up one of the steepest hills I've seen pavement on, so while yours was probably a little steeper, I don't think it's the engine or the weight that is the problem (I doubt the diesel will be much better) rather I think it's the 5 spd. It's designed with fuel economy and price in mind- the 5spd certainly wasn't designed for offroading, rock crawing, and steep inclines...
 
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#14 ·
It's just a matter of going slow. Idle with clutch fully released in first gear is about 4mph with little torque to help it. Slipping the clutch would work, until it breaks. I wouldnt' say the 5-spd is not good for off-road, but it is not good for <8mph (on road or not) with a load. The FDII has about a 25% shorter lowest gear than the 5-spd and obviously the torque converter to mask problems with low torque/gearing. Steep inclines should be fine if the surface is smooth and can maintain 10+mph.
 
#15 ·
Just to put things in perspective and further the discussion, compare the 19:1 crawl ratio that's plugged with the FDII, to a standard Wrangler's 38.9:1......or the Rubicon 73.1:1.
The ratio for the FDI stick is 15:1 or something like that in first gear. Not really a low range when you compare it to the Wrangler......
 
#16 ·
Stew,
I was out and about today to look at a piece of land in the back country with a friend. The hills were steep and rocky and I still (because of my first experience on such trails with the patriot) get a little nervous. I turned the esp off before going up and had no problems. From what I remember when mine wouldn't go up it almost felt like I was in the wrong gear ie: driving in 3rd when I needed to be in first and then stall out and slide backwards. Not a good feeling! At the time I brought it back in and demanded to know what was going on. The dealership pretty much told me that I didn't know how to drive it. They had NO helpful info on the esp. Since I found out how to turn the esp all the way off I've not had any problems in the dirty, rocky and snowy mountains of Colorado. I If I'm about to go up a steep and long private road in the middle of nowhere or up a hill with deep snow I always turn the esp off first. If this sounds at all like your experience I urge you to go back and give it a try before giving up! Let us know how it goes...

P.S. Mine is a 2007 5 speed FD1
 
#17 ·
I have had problems when going over speed bumps in metro Washington. Once I am over a bump, the accelerator fails to work for several seconds yet the esp symbol has never come on. I am going to start driving with the esp partially off to see if it makes a difference. It seems that the esp programming for the acceleration control is way too conservative.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
mountainannie said:
Stew,
I was out and about today to look at a piece of land in the back country with a friend. The hills were steep and rocky and I still (because of my first experience on such trails with the patriot) get a little nervous. I turned the esp off before going up and had no problems. From what I remember when mine wouldn't go up it almost felt like I was in the wrong gear ie: driving in 3rd when I needed to be in first and then stall out and slide backwards. Not a good feeling! At the time I brought it back in and demanded to know what was going on. The dealership pretty much told me that I didn't know how to drive it. They had NO helpful info on the esp. Since I found out how to turn the esp all the way off I've not had any problems in the dirty, rocky and snowy mountains of Colorado. I If I'm about to go up a steep and long private road in the middle of nowhere or up a hill with deep snow I always turn the esp off first. If this sounds at all like your experience I urge you to go back and give it a try before giving up! Let us know how it goes...

P.S. Mine is a 2007 5 speed FD1
Click to expand...

You just described it to a tee what happened, only thing is there was no ESP light, but that is an exact exmple of what happened. i would love to try it again, but alas this was a once abandoned stripmine, but they are getting ready to open back up (already had the heavy equipment there) and will probably be gated off before I get another chance, which is a shame too because the Beagles LOVE chasing the rabbits there!
 
#20 ·
When it happened to me the esp light didn't come on either. Of course I was looking at the road and trying to figure out what the **** was going on with the car so I may have not noticed it. I backed (or slid) down and tried again 4or 5 times and could not make it up. A week later I went back there and tried with the esp all the way off and had no problems with the same hill. Good luck, maybe you can find another steep one to try.
 
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mountainannie
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