Hey all, dilemma... 2009 Forester or 08 Patriot?

jluke78 · Apr 17, 2008

Hey Everyone,

My wife and I just moved out to Denver and we are car shopping starting next week. We are the proud owner of a 2005 Liberty CRD and it is an absolute mountain goat in the weather. Our other car is going to be traded in for a more practical all weather machine. I know opinions will be biased, but I wanted to ask anyway. I have it narrowed down to 2 machines... 2008 Patriot (which I just really started considering) and the new 2009 Forester.

The Patriot has absolutely impressed me on paper, in photos, specs... etc. My main requirements were this:

AWD/4WD
Manual Trans
Good MPG

It narrowed it down quite a bit, as most manufacturers decide to drop the manual option with AWD.

In comparison, things I like about the Patriot:

Looks (it is very cool looking indeed)
Interior layout and look (I HATE the blue 09 Forester gauges with no temp gauge)
MPG with the FD1 and 5-speed
4WD lock
BA Stereo

Things I like about the Forester:

Subaru AWD system
2.5L boxer 4
Heated mirrors / wiper de-icer
16.9 gallon tank
cargo room
8.7" ground clearance

Now, before I drive these, I wanted to ask this forum. I will be doing very light off road some times (the kind the Forester could do as well) but my main focus is a safe to drive somewhat fun driving vehicle year round, and very winter capable. Is the Patriot "fun" to drive when you are just cruising on road? Responsive, good steering feel, etc? For the 5-speed owners, how is the clutch, throws... etc?

I know I will have to find out myself on a test drive but I just wanted to see the real opinions of owners.

Thanks!

APT · Apr 17, 2008

The new Forester looks impressive. I consider it similar to the Nissan Rouge when compared to the Patriot. Both have nicer interiors and features availible and cost more, maybe $3-8k more. The back seat space is larger than the other two, but cargo space is smaller. Tradeoffs.

I like my FDI 5-speed. I only had it for 1 snow storm (1 month old), but it behaved perfectly with exception of ESP turning itself back on >35mph. The cutch and shifter are smooth and light, if not a little disconencted. I have the Compass twin with 18" wheels and think it handles quite well on the road. Suspension is a soft enough for off-road, but firm to notice road imperfections.

Check out some of the videos on Youtube of Compass/Patriot off-road.

BTW, the temp gauge on almost every vehicle does not show true engine temp.

Gaze · Apr 17, 2008

Naturally, this board is probably going to be a bit biassed, but your requirements seem to fit a Patriot perfectly. The smaller gas tank and slightly reduced cargo room might annoy you, but I think the mileage, styling, and multipurpose feel of the Patriot more than compensate.

APT · Apr 17, 2008

Oh, might want to check out the upcoming Tiguan, but I have not heard pricing.

jluke78 · Apr 17, 2008

APT said:
Oh, might want to check out the upcoming Tiguan but I have not heard pricing.

Looked into the Tiguan, pricing is sketchy, and the 4Motion AWD will only be offered with an automatic (non-DSG)

Looks like I will be test driving a Patriot today. Local dealer has a sport with the 5 speed / BA audio / 17" wheels package 25e discounted $3,000.

Dawson · Apr 17, 2008

After seeing the new Forester online, I too wondered how it would compare. I think, however, the Jeep would be more suited for off-road (with Trail-Rating). Honestly, though, if the Liberty is your off-roader, get the Forester for light off-road/city driving. You'll appreciate the larger fuel tank on long-distance road trips, and the interior will be much more refined. I'm not knocking my Patriot, I love it, but I also love my Legacy 2.5i Limited!

We're having a jeep get together this Saturday in Boulder. See this post: CO Jeep Meet - 4/19/08 for details. There will be at least another Liberty guy there, and I'll have my Patriot there. You're more than welcome to take it on a test drive.

Let me know if you have any other questions, I'm a Subaru fan as well.

-Bill

jack.allwardt · Apr 17, 2008

My advice--BUY AMERICAN! Your job may depend on it!

Dawson · Apr 17, 2008

jack.allwardt said:
My advice--BUY AMERICAN! Your job may depend on it!

I don't want to get too far off topic here, but really, what does that mean anymore? The 'big three' as they were, are all based in the US but manufacture not only here, but Canada and Mexico... Toyota, for example, is based overseas but manufactures in the US (as does Subaru). So, what is the foundation for the 'Buy American' argument? After all, our gas isn't American?!?!? Don't get me wrong, if I were dictator I would demand that, 'if it's not made in America, you can't buy it in America', but that's just not how things are. Doesn't the Subaru dealer (American) and the guy building the car at their Indiana plant (American) deserve a pay check too?

hunter44102 · Apr 17, 2008

The Sticker on the vehicle shows what percentage of the Parts are built in US/Canada, and where it was manufactured so you can get a good idea.

He does have a point, and it makes sense in a bad economy.

If the U.S doesn't manufacture anything, how long do you think foreign nations will keep taking our paper money for nothing in return??

Tell me what we are shipping back to these countries to balance trade and not dig a bigger hole?

Note:
Wranglers are built in Toledo, OH with like 86% parts made in U.S.A so it keeps many employed and spending here in the U.S.

I don't remember what the Patriot was, but I know its built in Illinois with a decent amount of American parts.

APT · Apr 17, 2008

This is going off topic fast, but...

I believe in buying what fits you the best for every unique purchase. Vote with your dollars. If a Toyota offeres a better value (better vehcile for the $), buy it. That's the only way any OEM will realize their product needs to be improved. If all the public does is suplement the inferiority, we never get better products because the OEM thinks theirs is good enough.

That said, I am eligible for FordMoCo and ChryLLC products @ family pricing and a number of others @ supplier pricing. One time, I still bought a brand new Lexus @ a negotiaged $1000 off MSRP. It was, at the time, the best vehicle for me at the price I was wlling to pay. Ford/Chry didn't have anything similar. I've purchased 10 vehicles with family discounts becasue I do take into account the discounted pricing into my own value. At best 4 of them would be considered market leaders, but the discounted pricing proved a better value than best vehicle in the market. I think the MK's are not the best in class for most people, but the discounted pricing made it worth the purchase for me.

homac · Apr 17, 2008

Here you go !

.

TJinWV · Apr 17, 2008

That's a 2008 Forester, Homac. The 2009's are redesigned.

Greenmachine · Apr 17, 2008

Go for the Patriot!

I just picked up my new FD1, manual Patriot last night & LOVE IT! My friend, a Subaru owner, broke it in with me today, both driving & riding & thought I made a great choice. Handling is great, transmission is smooth, fun to drive, decent pick-up with the standard transmission, getting 25.5 MPG from the get-go in suburban-type, rolling terrain, driving. (Not highway, not stop & go.) I love the styling. The 2009 Forester is nice, and probably a bit more polished, but it looks like everything else out there to me. Being an ex-Michiganian, I like that the engine of the Patriot is built in Michigan, and the assembly of the vehicle is done in Illinois. The BA speakers are great. (Have the upgraded stereo which allows adjustments to Bass, fading etc...don't know if the single CD unit has that but it makes it nice.) Can't vouch for anything long-term, but my first 80+ miles get an A+.

Dawson · Apr 17, 2008

That's fun (the comparison)! I gotta call BS on the HWY mileage though. Speed limit in CO is 75, and even at 70 you'd be lucky to average 24 MPG in the Pat, at 75-80 (flow) you're going to get more like 19. Can't speak for the Forester, but my Legacy (with same engine) gets about 24, cruising at 80 MPH.

This really does come down to what you plan on using this vehicle for. Speaking from experience, if you plan to take this vehicle off road, more than just a dirt-road or two-track, you WILL want the Jeep. Plain and simple, the Jeep offers more protection (CO is all ROCK) and true off-road capability than the Forester will. Since you seem to use your KJ for off roading, that's why I suggested the Forester as your on-road, more plush ride.

I apologize for getting off-topic in earlier posts. Hope you can make the Jeep Meet. Where in the Metro are you living? We're in Aurora.

homac · Apr 17, 2008

I know, however there is no comparion info out yet for the 2009's. I will post soon as I see it.

TJinWV said:
That's a 2008 Forester, Homac. The 2009's are redesigned.

jluke78 · Apr 17, 2008

Back from the test drive - VERY surprised

Well, back from the Subaru dealer and the Jeep dealer.

The Forester was a, X model the seats seemed nice, the dash was well laid out. Good rear seat room, HUGE sunroof. Nobody came out to shark us, and my wife thought the clutch was a little strange to engage / disengage so we left for the Jeep dealer without yet driving the Forester.

Got to the Jeep... it is light khaki met, YES fabric. Pretty loaded, BA audio, 5-speed, 17inch wheels. It looked nice. Definitely nicer than the curvey bland Foz.

The salesman greeted us and got the keys. First thing I noticed, the seats were AWESOME. Very good seating position (I am 6'1 230) I slipped right in. The dash is long, but it is cool, the whole vehicle feels substantial. We took off, and I really liked the power of the 2.4L. No, it's no race car, but it is plenty. The steering is light, loved the leather wrapped wheel, and it is of a great heft to it. Steering is quick, feels great, soaks up the bumpy Denver roads. Rear room is great, Love the rear reclining seats. The wife drove, and she loved it, and I know we were both very plesantly suprised.

We had to give the Forester a test drive, thinking it would still be a better ride. We couldn't be more wrong. First off, the clutch play that my wife hated translated into the test drive. I actually stalled it off the line. The clutch engages right off the floor with an abnormally long clutch press. The ride was bumpy, the steering was vaugue, we were shocked. The buttons were not of very high quality. The power was a little better off the line but quickly became raucous. We drove the Forester right back and we are now at home talking about going back to buy the Jeep... Update soon.

jack.allwardt · Apr 18, 2008

What does "Buy American" actually mean? Sure all manufacturers import many of their models and parts. But the key thing here is where is the home of the marque? That is where the royalties and profits flow. As a engineer/designer and a former manufacturer, I did have product assembled in other countries--for use in other countries, but the profits came back to the origin. As they will with Subaru, Honda, Nissan, etc. Sorry to get off "thread" here, but an opinion was asked for and I delivered!

Dawson · Apr 18, 2008

WOW, I'm shocked the Forester didn't impress. Did you eventually get to drive the '09; are they even on the lots yet? I really like the Pat interior too, rough and unrefined, yet comfortable and roomy! The way they cut the back of the front seats to increase rear knee room was GENIUS, my Legacy lacks severely in that area (but I never sit back there

. If you do get the Pat, will you be taking it off road? If you plan to, definitely order skid plates for it, or try to get them to throw them in! Which dealer are you looking at? We bought from Lithia and I wasn't that impressed (first time car buyer so I got taken). I hear GO is really good.

YAY

Rottenbob · Apr 18, 2008

If you're considering the 2009 Forster, you might want to read this: TTAC 2009 Forester review, which was just posted yesterday. Essentially, it says that the new Toyota partial-ownership of Subaru is beginning to Toyota-ize the Subaru models, and not necessarily for the better. TTAC tends to be heavily slanted in favor of Japanese vehicles, so when they criticize a Japanese vehicle it's a bit surprising. They must've really disliked it.

APT · Apr 18, 2008

I took an all highway 75-80mph cruise control speed highway trip @ 600 miles on my Compass FDI 5-speed and got 23mpg. I expect that to go up as the engine break in, but the shortest gear ratio 5-speed does get better than 19mpg @ 80mph.

Hey all, dilemma... 2009 Forester or 08 Patriot?

jluke78

APT

Gaze

APT

jluke78

Dawson

jack.allwardt

Dawson

hunter44102

APT

homac

TJinWV

Greenmachine

Dawson

homac

jluke78

jack.allwardt

Dawson

Rottenbob

APT

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