Jeep Patriot Forums banner
Cancel
Create thread New Garage Forums

To Daystar, RockKrawler, ARB:the next lift

Jump to Latest

Should the next lift be more intricate (involving replacement parts) and expensive?

  • Yes, we'll pay more ($500 - $1000) 3" lift that increases travel/articulation by adding more parts.

    Votes: 23 62%

  • No, we'd like a direct competitor to RRO.

    Votes: 14 38%
  • Total voters
    37
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
U

unclejjg

· Registered
Joined
·
438 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
I was thinking, a lot of us have been contacting guys like RockKrawler, Daystar, and even ARB in hopes of convincing them to create a new lift kit.

My feelings are this: whoever creates the next kit has to do more than a spacer lift. Seriously.

RRO already has a spacer lift available, and the price is pretty cheap. What is the sense of another one? How much could they possibly beat RRO by....$50?

Lets face it, everyone is tickled pink that RRO gave us some attention, but there are some of us who are looking for more. It only makes sense that the next lift should be one that requires some replacement parts in order to increase things like suspension travel and articulation, and to bypass the current limit of 2.5" of lift.

Maybe this costs the consumer close to $1000.00. I'd pay it. Anybody else or would the majority of you be happy to see the next lift turn out to be a "me too" spacer lift that is more or less the same as RRO's kit?
 
#2 ·
You have to remember...there is only so far you can allow teh wheels to drop below the level of the transaxle or you will exceed the ange at which the CV joints work properly. You will get driveline binding and all kinds of problems. So i feel that to get a lift that tall you would have to allow teh motor t osit lower in teh engine compartment. I believe the transverse engine design may have limited us to less than 3" of lift.
 
#4 ·
I would voted yes. I think it would be great to see a three to four inch (preferably a four inch) lift kit that relocated the suspension mount points to completely correct the geometry, kept the drive shafts at safe angles as well as added some additional suspension travel.

One reason I say this is after parking my 'Riot (which is lifted) next to a non-lifted 'Riot (both are FDI) I was a little disappointed in how mine looked. It really wasn't that much taller at the roof line. Yeah you can tell at the wheel wells and if you paid attention to the tire size. But at the roof line, not so much.
 
#5 ·
Id like to see a lift a bit higher than 3". Thats why im holding off on buying the RR to be honest. If nothing comes out by the end of summer, im going to get the RR lift so i can have a little more deep snow clearence for next winter.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Walkeraviator said:
You have to remember...there is only so far you can allow teh wheels to drop below the level of the transaxle or you will exceed the ange at which the CV joints work properly. You will get driveline binding and all kinds of problems. So i feel that to get a lift that tall you would have to allow teh motor t osit lower in teh engine compartment. I believe the transverse engine design may have limited us to less than 3" of lift.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't new parts fix this? If someone basically re-engineered the suspension, similar to the way they do for the Wrangler, would it be possible to get 3"?

Also, could you explain how the transverse engine limits the Patriot. I don't understand what transverse engine means....in truth, I like to dream up inventions, but I have no idea what goes into them.:D
 
#7 ·
unclejjg said:
Wouldn't new parts fix this? If someone basically re-engineered the suspension, similar to the way they do for the Wrangler, would it be possible to get 3"?

Also, could you explain how the transverse engine limits the Patriot. I don't understand what transverse engine means....in truth, I like to dream up inventions, but I have no idea what goes into them.:D
Click to expand...
Basically the engine is sideways. its mounted like that of a Front wheel drive car. The problem with this is in order to get a higher lift the drive shaft coming from the transmission to the front wheels are going to be at crazy angles. the Wranglers counter this by lowering the transfer case and differentials on the chasis itself. With the patriot the transmission (in a way) is the transfer case and differential. therefore it can not be lowered in the chasis without having to lower the engine as well. It would really be more work than its worth.

On the other had couldnt new drive shafts be made that can handle these angles?
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Schoat333 said:
Basically the engine is sideways. its mounted like that of a Front wheel drive car. The problem with this is in order to get a higher lift the drive shaft coming from the transmission to the front wheels are going to be at crazy angles. the Wranglers counter this by lowering the transfer case and differentials on the chasis itself. With the patriot the transmission (in a way) is the transfer case and differential. therefore it can not be lowered in the chasis without having to lower the engine as well. It would really be more work than its worth.

On the other had couldnt new drive shafts be made that can handle these angles?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the explanation.

As for a new drive shaft....That's what I'm talking about! Dare to dream (and consequently, pay.....if anybody should happen to listen to us).
 
#9 ·
The problem isn't driveshafts, it's axleshafts. The angle of the CV joints would become too large, leading to binding and failure. It's the same with most IFS vehicles. However, vehicles with non-horizontally opposed engines (like fullsize trucks, etc) can remount the front diff at a lower location, making the cv angles lower. Transverse engines with a transaxle would require the entire engine/transaxle combination to be dropped, or extensive work be done to accommodate a spacer between the engine and transaxle. With that said, I have not looked closely at the Patriot drivetrain, so I do not know for sure if there is a separate front differential, or if it is built into a transaxle.
 
#10 ·
TJinWV said:
The problem isn't driveshafts, it's axleshafts. The angle of the CV joints would become too large, leading to binding and failure. It's the same with most IFS vehicles. However, vehicles with non-horizontally opposed engines (like fullsize trucks, etc) can remount the front diff at a lower location, making the cv angles lower. Transverse engines with a transaxle would require the entire engine/transaxle combination to be dropped, or extensive work be done to accommodate a spacer between the engine and transaxle. With that said, I have not looked closely at the Patriot drivetrain, so I do not know for sure if there is a separate front differential, or if it is built into a transaxle.
Click to expand...

It is all built in. By "driveshafts" I meant "axleshafts" im used to FWD cars so for me a CV shaft is a driveshaft. Sorry for the confusions.
 
#12 ·
sorry to be a bummer on the intent of the thread, but I'm happy with the RRO style lift being offered by one company. Keep in mind also that manufacturing costs go down with volume, so the more lifts RRO sells, the less expensive they should get. By splitting the number of body (i.e. RRO style) lift kits sold between two or more companies won't help.

I'd be happy if RRO still sells the lift when I'm ready to buy it, and that it's been improved with the learning they do each time they manufacture it.

I need another option to vote on the poll.

I'm happy with a 2" lift on top of my FDII. I think get me way more than enough clearance and tire size for the rough logging roads I drive (but I still need to prove that my stock FDII is enough once the damned snow melts).
 
#13 ·
polished_heckler said:
sorry to be a bummer on the intent of the thread, but I'm happy with the RRO style lift being offered by one company. Keep in mind also that manufacturing costs go down with volume, so the more lifts RRO sells, the less expensive they should get. By splitting the number of body (i.e. RRO style) lift kits sold between two or more companies won't help.

I'd be happy if RRO still sells the lift when I'm ready to buy it, and that it's been improved with the learning they do each time they manufacture it.

I need another option to vote on the poll.

I'm happy with a 2" lift on top of my FDII. I think get me way more than enough clearance and tire size for the rough logging roads I drive (but I still need to prove that my stock FDII is enough once the damned snow melts).
Click to expand...
Your not a bummer at all. Your opinion is wanted and you make a very good point.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Agreed. Polish's point is good. However, I'll counter and say that without some competition, the RRO lift has no incentive to ever improve the product they sell.

I find it funny that RRO offers more indepth kits for the Liberty, but not for the Patriot. There are several options for the Liberty, starting from a budget lift and eventually ending with the Rockfather II. The price range is from $214 - $809.

Obviously the Liberty has been out longer than the Patriot....but the point is: What pushed them to offer more than one lift? Perhaps it is because Daystar, and Frankenlift, etc all came out with lifts and added items like new shocks, etc.

RRO is better than nothing. The next step is something better than RRO. Otherwise, we are moving horizontally. I prefer progress.
 
#15 ·
unclejjg said:
Agreed. Polish's point is good.
Click to expand...
the short form is heckler please. :) heckler was taken when signed up here and on E-bay. My bike (a heckler) also happens to be polished aluminum.
 
#16 ·
My biggest issue with a 2" lift is that by the time you add rails under the plastic rocker trim, you lose the lift! I would love a 4" lift (no matter the cost) with rails that replace the plastic trim and encase the seam weld. Been trying to get people to build such rails, but it's tough to find someone with the time.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
Discussion starter · #17 ·
polished_heckler said:
the short form is heckler please. :) heckler was taken when signed up here and on E-bay. My bike (a heckler) also happens to be polished aluminum.
Click to expand...
I'm really sorry. I've been reading your name wrong since you joined in December. Here I thought you were proud of your heritage....turns out I can't read.

"Heckler" from here on out.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Dawson said:
My biggest issue with a 2" lift is that by the time you add rails under the plastic rocker trim, you lose the lift! I would love a 4" lift (no matter the cost) with rails that replace the plastic trim and encase the seam weld. Been trying to get people to build such rails, but it's tough to find someone with the time.
Click to expand...
Dawson,

Not to start a new topic (though we probably could in "Exterior"), but since you mentioned it, what is behind/underneath the plastic side trim? Can you pop it off? Although it isn't the lowest point, I'm sure you lose a lot of "wheel over obstacle" ability with that thing.

For example, my Blazer measures 14" from the ground to the side trim...but ground clearance is only like 7.9".
 
#19 ·
ya know. we ALL could get a bigger lift with the RRO kit 'if' it had, instead of a front strut spacer, a new front strut that would be longer from the spring guard to the point where the knuckle mounts. if they added the 2+" THERE instead of using the spacers, then the only thing keeping us from using TALLER TIRES would be modifying our front wheel wells and/or fenders. easy to do if you REALLY want that added height.

if RRO supplied a longer front strut to their existing kit, we 'may' even be able to fit 32's on our MK's. of course you still have to be concerned about added weight at each axle.

pros and cons......decisions, decisions :confused:
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
About this Discussion
30 Replies
11 Participants
Last post:
JeepJim
Jeep Patriot Forums
posts
678K
members
55K
Since
2006
Join our community to discuss the Jeep Patriot & Jeep Compass. Find answers to all your Jeep Patriot technical questions.
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Jeep Patriot General Discussion Engine and Drivetrain Newbie Check-In Suspension and Tires Electrical and Audio