stuttering at low rpm

Rocinante · Jul 9, 2013

Mine does it too. Its really annoying, I know its loosening things up, breaking things ect..because now there are metallic clunks and clinks associated with it. Ive been told its the CVT. But we are gonna try to graduate ourselves into a newer model here in about 6 months, maybe a Grand Cherokee..IDK. Ours is an 07. Excellent, EXCELLENT hiway traveling and winding mountain road climbing machine; 10 thumbs up on that aspect...BUT, it's a HORRIBLE, terrible city vehicle, because of the CVT.

SteandDebbie · Jul 9, 2013

Ok, so I've just done a plug out spark test. Surprise Surprise I'm getting an orange spark and not a blue/white spark.

Orange spark = weak ignition.

We should have an answer to this tomorrow!

epper:

SteandDebbie · Jul 9, 2013

Rocinante said:
Mine does it too. Its really annoying, I know its loosening things up, breaking things ect..because now there are metallic clunks and clinks associated with it. Ive been told its the CVT. But we are gonna try to graduate ourselves into a newer model here in about 6 months, maybe a Grand Cherokee..IDK. Ours is an 07. Excellent, EXCELLENT hiway traveling and winding mountain road climbing machine; 10 thumbs up on that aspect...BUT, it's a HORRIBLE, terrible city vehicle, because of the CVT.

Thanks for the post, this is a manual transmission issue, most CVTs have been fixed with a progam flash. speak to your dealer and see if your car needs a reflash.

Thanks

Jorisss · Jul 10, 2013

SteandDebbie said:
Ok, so I've just done a plug out spark test. Surprise Surprise I'm getting an orange spark and not a blue/white spark.

Orange spark = weak ignition.

We should have an answer to this tomorrow! epper:

And?

SteandDebbie · Jul 10, 2013

OK, coils changed, instant improvement, lots more grunt on the way home on the highway, little or no hesitation during hard in gear acceleration.

The last part of our journey involves speed humps, and the stutter was there! :doh:

So, I pop the bonnet and start to take a look again, pulled a plug again to see if the nasty orange spark had turned into a bright blue spark, and it hadn't. :BLAM: I considered why and then I noticed the condition of the earth strap that leads from the cylinder head to the suspension mount. I tested the resistance across the strap and got nothing, no circuit. Upon removing the strap I could see a small area that had been arcing against the bodywork, could the movement caused by the speedhump be enough to create a good earth across the strap? Off to the car store for a new strap................30 mins later.........new strap fitted, time to test drive again :Racing: .....stutter improved but still not gone.

I took a look at the rest of the engine bay and began testing the earth points, all of them were corroded. I cleaned them all up and went for another test drive. Improved beyond belief!! My wife says it has gone, I've had a few tries up and down the humps and still think I can feel something, but I really have to try.

I also blew the cobwebs out, two runs down the highway with 2nd and 3rd gear changes at the rev limiter. Prior to doing this the temperature gauge had never settled in the middle, always at 3/8ths........could the temp sensor be faulty? Could the high revs of cleared something?

My advice would be to test and replace all earth straps and clean up and lubricate the ones that can be replaced, (the looms etc).

And then report back.

SteandDebbie · Jul 12, 2013

:smiley_aagv: Could everybody with the stutter and the 2.4l 4x4 Manual please post up what spark plugs they are using. :huddle:

Thanks

Jorisss · Jul 12, 2013

I have the NGK ZFR5F-11 spark plugs and the stuttering

Why? Cleaning and replacing the earth straps wasn't the solution?

SteandDebbie · Jul 12, 2013

Fixed, OEM Plugs, thorough ignition system inspection and overhaul!

When I changed the plugs just after buying the jeep the car store recommended Denso TT Platinum plugs. I checked everything else last night, all engine earth straps tested and cleaned, replaced if bad, ecu connector removed and checked, PCV removed and checked, throttle body inspected, but it still gave a nasty orange spark.

I tested the ignition coil feed wires with the ignition turn on. I got 3.7v on the middle pin and 12.4v (battery voltage) on the other pin, perhaps its worth checking yours and reporting back. All 4 were exactly the same.

I read elsewhere about spark plugs and how platinum and iridium plugs are bad for ignition systems designed for copper plugs. So I went to a different Car Store this morning and bought the recommended ZFR5F-11 and did another spark test. I instantly had a bright blue spark, so I fitted them and test drove without an ecu reset, the first lap showed a 99% improvement, the second lap.......stutter gone!

epper:

I really do suggest that you focus on the ignition and earthing system, think about it, a bad spark will not burn all of the fuel in the cylinder, the O2 will see this and the car will try to lean out to ensure a clean burn. cut the fuel and you cut the power. That's also why it does this under load, you feel it during in-gear acceleration, throw in more fuel and you quench the bad spark.

During a test drive :Racing: I worked the car in all gears between 1200 and 2000prm, and within that range it operates at good road speeds, which leads me to believe that there is already an ecu fuel cut in this area for fuel economy and emissions purposes. Cutting it back further due to a dirty orange spark will cause the car to hesitate, so you give it more gas and the car then hesitates, lurches and bucks.

With the recommended NGK plugs the patriot pulls smooth and clean, all the way to the redline. I note in a previous post you commented on gapping your plugs. The correct gap is 1.1mm this is exactly what ZFR5F-11 is, 11 = 1.1mm, you do not/should not have to gap the plugs if they are ZFR5F-11! go double check that you have the right plugs.

Bring me speedhumps! :dead_horse:

:hammertime:

Jorisss · Jul 12, 2013

Spark plugs have been replaced twice afterwards by Jeep dealer (warranty) so I am sure they are the right ones. I will check the gap tough.
How do you check the colour of the spark? Remove plug and plug it in the coil and have the engine running? Or does the plug have to be grounded by touching the engine?

Glad to hear you solved your stutter.

Jorisss · Jul 13, 2013

FINALLY do I have flashing lights on my dashboard! Now the dealer can't say they can't find it (altough I don't have warranty anymore).
The stuttering is very worse now, rpm is going up and down and I do have the orange light of a car with skid marks (traction control or BAS?) and on the left of the dash I got a red Electronic throttle control light
I know I did read on this forum some one with the same problems. Can't remember so if some one could help me.
Wasn't it something with the wheel speed sensor or ABS sensor?

patc1996 · Jul 15, 2013

same problem

Joriss and others- as i trolled through this thread i have same issue in my manual compass. 2.4 L manual 2WD . Indiana, USA

I got the "ETC" light and today for first time I get the EAP ( Skid mark light) on while trying to accl onto highway, didnt get a MIL..
This issue started on way back from a trip a week ago, noticed a "stutter" around the 2000RPM mark and sometimes 3000. mainly its the 2nd to 3rd or 2nd to 4. it was a 8hr trip and I hoped all the way home the jeep would get me home, which it did. Never stutterd on cruise and gradual accel, andn only around the 1500-2500 RPM mark. Then i couldnt repeat the feat consistently and i got a new tank of gas, thought i was in the clear. until today.

I am experiencing similar issues, as gets more humid and hotter, stutter is worse. If below 70dg or so, minimal if no problems. i get the ETC light on curves, or heavy accel that would cause movement around eng compartment. It was hotter today and was accel on a curve today on a on ramp to freeway Simaler to what everyone else is saying

I looked at the grounds tonight. I was getting continuity on all of them.

STand Debbie -Do you know how many GRDs there are in engine compartment? i find 3, 2 frt drivers side and the one passenger side attached to shock mount.

I had similar issues with my 2007 caliber, but this one threw a code 2400 MAP senor stuck high end open.. replace that under warranty.. But with this case the car bucked all over the place and ETC light on and was almost un drivable, and the cailber was the CVT which I think is just as goofy.
2 other similarities between the caliber and compass is that both these issues occurred after I used a fuel injector cleaner, the compass after I was using cleaner all the time while on trip to loosen things up as I do a bunch of city driving.
I also have copper plugs in, although may need to chk them out as they maybe at life span.. I am unsure exacts

I did find ONE thing on my GRND cable search and im not sure if this is it but i did notice my NEG strap from battery had wore the insulation down a bit going towards the GRND and the NEG post... but it was rubbing on the positive cable coming frm the computer, so not sure, no evidence of grounding but I guess possible so I electrical taped the exposed area, see what happens:smiley_thumbs_up:

This is soo incredibly ODD, and taking it to the dealer does nothing since if it doenst throw a code (MIL ) then "nothings wrong" I call BS!!

STandDebbie- i think u are on to something...

*** could anyone define the wire LOOMS? ** are you speaking of the grp of Wires or the round connecter that attaches to the body?

Also after fixing the wrn GRND wire, still stutter, but most times not enough to cause ETC light to come on.
I am using same plugs as Joriss- NGK ZFR5F-11.. Although they are looking worn down a bit as I inspected last night..

All very interesting..

Jorisss · Jul 15, 2013

Plugged in a OBDII scanner this morning and no faults were storaged (I didn't get a MIL light, so no surprise). Started the Pat, no problems at all, no lights or what so ever.
Stupid thing.
I will call a mechanic today, see what he thinks.
I'll keep you updated

***little update*** Got an appointment for wednesday at a 4x4 workshop. They only do American 4x4's and are highly recommended at dutch Jepp Wrangler sites.
They will check wheel speed sensor, throttle body, wiring loom under kick space and check the computer. Any other things to be checked?

Jorisss · Jul 17, 2013

Got a call from the workshop this afternoon. He found 2 codes storaged directly relating to the throttle body (probably a better OBDII scanner then mine). So it is going to be replaced with a new one.
He ordered a new one and hopes he get the job done tomorrow.

I got an old Cherokee as loaner. Really great car. Very basic and simple but a lot of fun to drive

Terasec · Jul 17, 2013

Jorisss said:
FINALLY do I have flashing lights on my dashboard! Now the dealer can't say they can't find it (altough I don't have warranty anymore).
The stuttering is very worse now, rpm is going up and down and I do have the orange light of a car with skid marks (traction control or BAS?) and on the left of the dash I got a red Electronic throttle control light
I know I did read on this forum some one with the same problems. Can't remember so if some one could help me.
Wasn't it something with the wheel speed sensor or ABS sensor?

i had same problem,
same lights,
my problem bad tcpm. fried electronics in my throttle body so needed both new tcpm and new throttle body,
MIL lightning bolt is the throttle body error,
ESP skidding jeep light is wheel speed sensor, as cpu cant make sense of throttle position, and wheel speed esp error comes up, doesnt mean wheel sensors are faulty, just doesnt match whats going on with throttle position.
remember when replacing throttle body, make sure tcpm is good and not throwing bad voltage to TB or you can fry new TB.
also new TB needs to be recalibrated , not sure if your shop has tools/diagnostics to calibrate TB, not many shops do.

Jorisss · Jul 17, 2013

What is the tcpm? I thought it's for your tire pressure but I guess it will be something different.
I trust the workshop 200%, they are the best around here. I am sure they got the tools to recalibrate.

Terasec · Jul 17, 2013

Jorisss said:
What is the tcpm? I thought it's for your tire pressure but I guess it will be something different.
I trust the workshop 200%, they are the best around here. I am sure they got the tools to recalibrate.

tcpm maybe its tpcm, =total control power module or sometime just called pcm
basically new computer,

Jorisss · Jul 18, 2013

Got a call from the workshop. Chrysler Netherlands didn't have the throttle body, it will be at the shop tomorrow. Have to wait an other day.
I asked for the codes they scanned and he said it was 2010, 2012 and this morning after it happened with them too they also got 2111 or 2011 (I can't recall).
Couldn't find what these mean on the internet but according to the workshop, it is all pointing to a broken throttle body

Jorisss · Jul 21, 2013

Picked up the Patriot friday. No difference. She still stutters. No lights though.
Probably need a new computer. I'll keep posting any progress.

By the way, the codes were 2110, 2112 and 2111. Anybody who can tell me what those mean?

SteandDebbie · Jul 30, 2013

Thought it was time I gave you guys an update, and you won't believe this, the car runs 1000% better with the new plugs and coils, but I can actually make my jeep stutter on demand!! :wow:

I've spent some time trawling the net and studying the power curves after I read that people were complaining about a huge flat spot and how Chrysler cut corners with the ECU.

It's apparent from studying the graphs and driving through the gears in the 1500-2000rpm range that the cars are designed to under fuel and become hesitant, I assume to achieve fuel consumption targets at urban speeds.

So I can slow down in any gear into that rpm range and hit the throttle about a third of the way down and it will hesitate and stutter.

I've found a fairly local remapping company that has mapped the same engine in the Caliber, they offer a money back satisfaction guarantee so as soon as I have some free time to drive it over to them I'll let them remap and see if I can make it stutter.

I'll report back after I've tried it.

Jorisss · Jul 31, 2013

Well, sounds promissing.
Hope it solves the stutter issue. On the other hand, if the remapping resolves it, shouldn't Chrysler come with a software update?

stuttering at low rpm

Rocinante

SteandDebbie

SteandDebbie

Jorisss

SteandDebbie

SteandDebbie

Jorisss

SteandDebbie

Jorisss

Jorisss

patc1996

Jorisss

Jorisss

Terasec

Jorisss

Terasec

Jorisss

Jorisss

SteandDebbie

Jorisss

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